NaySayers and YeaSayers

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
I've been doing quite a bit or reading in the last couple of days, trying to see where the arguments about aiming systems originated.

Except for the continuous flow of mean-spirited comments, the retaliations and the hot buttons being pushed by both sides, I think I have come to understand the problem that exists, at least, about CTE/Pro One.

First: YeaSayers. Many of them claim that CTE/Pro One is an exact aiming system. And it is for them. EXACT to them means that they do something exactly the same every time they use CTE/Pro One and they feel the proof is in the pudding so to speak. In essence, they believe that they are using an EXACT and ACCURATE aiming system and for them, they are.

Secondly: NaySayers claim that CTE/Pro One is not an exact and accurate aiming system. While the NaySayers are losing the battle about whether it is an accurate aiming system, they are going to fight to their last dying breath that it is not an exact aiming system. I think they have been beaten so bloody well by the YeaSayers, that they are being forced to concede that CTE/Pro One is more than "snake oil", more than a stupid method of aiming, more than a hypnotic lesson from it's originators. Each day as more and more people discover the Visual Perceptions that are necessary for the successful use of CTE/Pro One the NaySayers grudgingly are being FORCED to admit that it is an effective aiming system.

The NaySayers have their definition of exact and accurate and the YeaSayers have their definition of exact and accurate and neither one can hear the other.

I guess I am in the camp that says that CTE/Pro One is a VERY EFFECTIVE method to use for aiming and shooting.

As to whether it is exact and accurate, apparently depends upon how you use the word exact and accurate. Personally, when using CTE/Pro One, I do PRECISE, EXACT and ACCURATE movements with my eyes and body with my eyes leading the way EACH AND EVERY TIME I use CTE/Pro One. There is NO GUESSING, no major adjustments, except for the fine tune adjustments as I like to call them (for throw, shape etc).

I've never been one to suggest that CTE/Pro One or any other aiming system is going to make you a top player. However, I can speak from personal experience, learning CTE/Pro One has opened up my mind to the importance of finding the center of the cue ball and the value of minimizing the use of side spin. You would think that with all of the books and videos and pool lessons that I have taken that these two things would have sunk in but they apparently didn't, until CTE/Pro One. These things were lagniappe, unexpected bonuses along with the additional confidence of knowing that I was lined up correctly to make the shot.

Is it the best aiming system in the world? I don't know. I do know at least for myself, learning it has not hurt my game and it may have helped in ways that I had never expected.

CTE/Pro One is not something that you can do consistently well until you work on a while on the visual perspectives.
 
Good post, hard to tell which side you are on though... :)

But I especially agree with the part about finding center ball and minimizing spin. Something I too somehow hadn't figured out in 20 years, and coincidentally something I started working on just a few weeks before working with CTE / Pro One, and the combination so far at least has been very promising for me.

Scott
 
the right attitude

I like to learn. Even if I think I know something I will always try and listen to what others have to say or offer.I believe CTE/Pro One is a Very valuable tool
for a players arsanal.:thumbup:
 
JoeyA said:
I've been doing quite a bit or reading in the last couple of days, trying to see where the arguments about aiming systems originated.

Except for the continuous flow of mean-spirited comments, the retaliations and the hot buttons being pushed by both sides, I think I have come to understand the problem that exists, at least, about CTE/Pro One.

First: YeaSayers. Many of them claim that CTE/Pro One is an exact aiming system. And it is for them. EXACT to them means that they do something exactly the same every time they use CTE/Pro One and they feel the proof is in the pudding so to speak. In essence, they believe that they are using an EXACT and ACCURATE aiming system and for them, they are.

Secondly: NaySayers claim that CTE/Pro One is not an exact and accurate aiming system. While the NaySayers are losing the battle about whether it is an accurate aiming system, they are going to fight to their last dying breath that it is not an exact aiming system. I think they have been beaten so bloody well by the YeaSayers, that they are being forced to concede that CTE/Pro One is more than "snake oil", more than a stupid method of aiming, more than a hypnotic lesson from it's originators. Each day as more and more people discover the Visual Perceptions that are necessary for the successful use of CTE/Pro One the NaySayers grudgingly are being FORCED to admit that it is an effective aiming system.

The NaySayers have their definition of exact and accurate and the YeaSayers have their definition of exact and accurate and neither one can hear the other.

I guess I am in the camp that says that CTE/Pro One is a VERY EFFECTIVE method to use for aiming and shooting.

As to whether it is exact and accurate, apparently depends upon how you use the word exact and accurate. Personally, when using CTE/Pro One, I do PRECISE, EXACT and ACCURATE movements with my eyes and body with my eyes leading the way EACH AND EVERY TIME I use CTE/Pro One. There is NO GUESSING, no major adjustments, except for the fine tune adjustments as I like to call them (for throw, shape etc).

I've never been one to suggest that CTE/Pro One or any other aiming system is going to make you a top player. However, I can speak from personal experience, learning CTE/Pro One has opened up my mind to the importance of finding the center of the cue ball and the value of minimizing the use of side spin. You would think that with all of the books and videos and pool lessons that I have taken that these two things would have sunk in but they apparently didn't, until CTE/Pro One. These things were lagniappe, unexpected bonuses along with the additional confidence of knowing that I was lined up correctly to make the shot.

Is it the best aiming system in the world? I don't know. I do know at least for myself, learning it has not hurt my game and it may have helped in ways that I had never expected.

CTE/Pro One is not something that you can do consistently well until you work on a while on the visual perspectives.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to waste my time arguing about systems, because to each their own..

JoeyA, as much as I respect your opinions on everything else, this post comes as biased and antagonistic from the very beginning. "yeah, it works for me" and "you're so wrong that you're scared" are exactly what you say everybody has been doing.

I still think pool is like baseball or basketball or anything else.. some people, noticably the greats, all do certain things uniquely, while sharing traits in other areas. To me, pool is the same way.. learn however you can and do your best. CTE? Good for you. HAMB? Good for you. Pocket Pool? Well.. good for you, but wash your hand before I shake it.
 
Banks said:
I'm not going to waste my time arguing about systems, because to each their own..

JoeyA, as much as I respect your opinions on everything else, this post comes as biased and antagonistic from the very beginning. "yeah, it works for me" and "you're so wrong that you're scared" are exactly what you say everybody has been doing.

I still think pool is like baseball or basketball or anything else.. some people, noticably the greats, all do certain things uniquely, while sharing traits in other areas. To me, pool is the same way.. learn however you can and do your best. CTE? Good for you. HAMB? Good for you. Pocket Pool? Well.. good for you, but wash your hand before I shake it.
Click to expand...

I appeciate the nice words about respecting my other posts and opinions and I appreciate your candor here.

I don't argue about aiming systems either. I may retaliate against the NaySayers here and there for jumping on the YeaSayers unnecessarily.

My opinions are biased just like anyone else's opinions.

This thread isn't about whether CTE/Pro One is right for everyone. It's apparently NOT.

What I am saying is that the NaySayers want to believe that his aiming system is not exact as well as not accurate and the YeaSayers are saying it is exact and very accurate. That's the boiled down essemce of my first post in the thread.
 
JoeyA said:
I appeciate the nice words about respecting my other posts and opinions and I appreciate your candor here.

I don't argue about aiming systems either. I may retaliate against the NaySayers here and there for jumping on the YeaSayers unnecessarily.

My opinions are biased just like anyone else's opinions.

This thread isn't about whether CTE/Pro One is right for everyone. It's apparently NOT.

What I am saying is that the NaySayers want to believe that his aiming system is not exact as well as not accurate and the YeaSayers are saying it is exact and very accurate. That's the boiled down essemce of my first post in the thread.
Click to expand...

I don't care what PJ says about you, you're not that bad. :thumbup:

I never read what JoeyInCali says, but I still like his posts. ;) j/k.. sometimes I read them.
 
[C]hronic [T]hreadposting [E]ncephalitis

Roy Steffensen said:
What is CTE? Can anyone explain it to me?
Click to expand...

Roy:

After bearing witness to the outcome of some of these threads, I'm convinced it's a medical term, and it stands for:

[C]hronic
[T]hreadposting
[E]ncephalitis

...and it's a very contagious disease. It's a fungus that takes over the host's brain, making a drone out of him/her, causing him/her to help the fungus reproduce (replicate copies of itself) via the host posting incessantly about such arcane topics as aiming systems. The host, now a drone, is also the fungus' built-in parent and security mechanism, as the host vociferously defends "the young" (i.e. the created threads/posts).

It's unfortunate for AZB, as the fungus is already here, and actively replicating. However, other forums that are not infected (or infection attempts that failed, such as over in OnePocket.org) need to keep their defenses up, lest they be taken over by this contagion.

We need to start a ribbon campaign to stop this contagion ASAP. Not so much for the wasteland it makes of forums, but also because of the "undead" it makes out of the people it infects. You've heard of people walking in circles, right? Well, we now have pool players that swivel and pivot their cues at straight-in shots. :eek:

:p :D

-Sean

P.S.: this public service announcement brought to you by your friendly neighborhood uninfected pool player, who's going stir crazy because he can't wait until tomorrow, when he begins his annual pool blow-out at SBE. :D
 
CTE/ProOne threads = most amusing threads on the forum!!!

I get tickled picturing several Junior High school boys on the playground arguing until a scuffle breaks out. I sometimes wonder if all these confrontational CTE posters came together in a pool room would a fistfight break out? Also, some of the back-and-forth banter comes off as a bunch of four-year-olds fighting over who's going to get the toy in the cereal box :grin:!!!

Good stuff! Keep it coming fellas!!!

Maniac
 
I like your post Joey. Now for the important stuff...first how do you pronounce it...looks French Italian ..lagniappe. Never mind , just looked it up..it's from your neck of the woods.
 
JoeyA said:
First: YeaSayers. Many of them claim that CTE/Pro One is an exact aiming system. And it is for them. EXACT to them means that they do something exactly the same every time they use CTE/Pro One and they feel the proof is in the pudding so to speak. In essence, they believe that they are using an EXACT and ACCURATE aiming system and for them, they are.

CTE/Pro One is not something that you can do consistently well until you work on a while on the visual perspectives.
Click to expand...



In all due fairness....From my observations and from reading Stan"s and a few other key CTErs postessess.......It was not communicated that "Exact" is meant the way you type it out. If he did...I don't think there would be a lot of debate over its "exactness"

Regarding your last statement...I will leave you something to ponder....as I see the "visual perspectives" getting thrown out there more and more...(by Yaysayers)....saying the reason people don't "get it" is because they are not seeing the "visual perspectives" correctly because they have not worked with it enought........ and add to that...some say there are "two" visual perspectives required for correct starting point.

People have made the comment...they don't like "Ghost Ball".....(gasp I used the 9 letter two words).....becuase they have a hard time with seeing the Ghost ball......(aka "visual perspective")......Now...for CTE....they are being told that they need to have (two) visual perspectives.

Perhaps....they just have not worked with GB enough to "get it":wink:
 
i got no idea what people are talking about with aiming systems,i bought a book about a week ago and couldn'tunderstand it
 
Reply to JoeyA

JoeyA said:
I've been doing quite a bit or reading in the last couple of days, trying to see where the arguments about aiming systems originated.

Except for the continuous flow of mean-spirited comments, the retaliations and the hot buttons being pushed by both sides, I think I have come to understand the problem that exists, at least, about CTE/Pro One.

First: YeaSayers. Many of them claim that CTE/Pro One is an exact aiming system. And it is for them. EXACT to them means that they do something exactly the same every time they use CTE/Pro One and they feel the proof is in the pudding so to speak. In essence, they believe that they are using an EXACT and ACCURATE aiming system and for them, they are.

Secondly: NaySayers claim that CTE/Pro One is not an exact and accurate aiming system. While the NaySayers are losing the battle about whether it is an accurate aiming system, they are going to fight to their last dying breath that it is not an exact aiming system. I think they have been beaten so bloody well by the YeaSayers, that they are being forced to concede that CTE/Pro One is more than "snake oil", more than a stupid method of aiming, more than a hypnotic lesson from it's originators. Each day as more and more people discover the Visual Perceptions that are necessary for the successful use of CTE/Pro One the NaySayers grudgingly are being FORCED to admit that it is an effective aiming system.

The NaySayers have their definition of exact and accurate and the YeaSayers have their definition of exact and accurate and neither one can hear the other.

I guess I am in the camp that says that CTE/Pro One is a VERY EFFECTIVE method to use for aiming and shooting.

As to whether it is exact and accurate, apparently depends upon how you use the word exact and accurate. Personally, when using CTE/Pro One, I do PRECISE, EXACT and ACCURATE movements with my eyes and body with my eyes leading the way EACH AND EVERY TIME I use CTE/Pro One. There is NO GUESSING, no major adjustments, except for the fine tune adjustments as I like to call them (for throw, shape etc).

I've never been one to suggest that CTE/Pro One or any other aiming system is going to make you a top player. However, I can speak from personal experience, learning CTE/Pro One has opened up my mind to the importance of finding the center of the cue ball and the value of minimizing the use of side spin. You would think that with all of the books and videos and pool lessons that I have taken that these two things would have sunk in but they apparently didn't, until CTE/Pro One. These things were lagniappe, unexpected bonuses along with the additional confidence of knowing that I was lined up correctly to make the shot.

Is it the best aiming system in the world? I don't know. I do know at least for myself, learning it has not hurt my game and it may have helped in ways that I had never expected.

CTE/Pro One is not something that you can do consistently well until you work on a while on the visual perspectives.
Click to expand...

JoeyA,
Ive tried to follow the CTE thing to some extent Ive been shown it sort of but Im convinced the guy trying to show me had no business showing me because he left me confused but.

From your obvious successes using it, your perception of the game naturally and then your use of it when youre just not sure, the fact that you are seeing that the use of English only complicates the matter and many times you just dont need a whole bunch of it, from your open minded comments about it even though you stand firmly on the side of it as a way to obtain visual intelligence I want to say a few things.

I think I understand exactly where youre at on cte, now I dont understand cte but it just like many other methods is a reference method that to me is complicated just a bit beyond what I think I would personally want to do but, I believe that you can make it work and you do. You get close enough with it that you end up at a place where you are able to feel your way from there.

To me that is what its about but it doesnt have to be that complicated as I think, I think cte is.

What if there were reference methods, visual in nature that did the exact same thing as cte does?

Would that make them exact?

Probably no more than cte but they do the exact same thing.

You see really easily what you are supposed to do and you understand what it is youre doing within several reference methods.

I think its going to be a long time before these two camps of thought ever come together but in my humble opinion some important things have come out of it.

CTE will be recognized as what it is and not what it was at times purported to be by some folks because its recognized as a method to provide a reference to getting close enough that you have to look at the shot and then you know how to be right.

For me that is the truth I see in it and I dont even know it, just too complicated for me I guess but

It makes me resolute in that reference points are the way to learn the game and that it can be much easier than cte.

I just believe in natural reference methods using easier ways of finding the mark---------natural------nrm-----natural reference method---its the same thing its a reference method. One is just easier to me that fits in perfectly with traditional time tested practices.

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com

You can get books by pming me if thats what youre interested in.
 
It is my considered opinion that JoeyA has taken the high road on this issue all along, and in reality doesn't use any system at all. Nor, does his faithful minion Black-Balls.
JoeyA has played these games for a long, long time, and I firmly believe it is highly unlikely that his subconscious ability to pocket balls has changed simply because he claims to have learned a system. Granted, I have no way of proving my beliefs, but by the same token he has no way of disproving them.
I consider him a fraud, a charlatan, and an agent provocateur for inciting discord among the membership with this outrageous post.
He is someone who's only interest is personal gain.
 
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