What Happened to the Local Pool Hall and Why We Can Forget Pro Pool as a Huge Sport

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Silver Member
I have a real knack for finding dying activities to get involved in. Running horses, pool, and now poker. The poker boom is over and in many ways the "new" poker will kill poker as a game of skill.

All of these activities were heavily supported by gamblers when they were the easiest gambling activities to find. They weren't the easiest activities to be involved with though. Breeding, training, or handicapping horses are all highly refined skills that take many hours of effort to acquire a decent level of skill. Pool, the same story. Few reach the top so you spend a lifetime honing skills or clubbing baby seals, often some of both. Poker is the same as pool, a simple game on the surface with an underlying complexity that requires endless hours of effort to excel at the traditional games.

As many know, I have faded from pool for many reasons. No decent local hall being one major issue. Every trip to New Orleans to play pool requires careful planning and luck to dodge hours in traffic. A wreck on or near the twelve mile bridge can turn a typical 45 minute run into long hours on the twelve mile parking lot coming or going. No fun at all! Rush hour traffic is almost as bad.

Moving on to poker I find that I am ten years behind the curve there. Money to be made there but the easy pickings are long gone. However there is an interesting look at the evolution of what was once a game of skill that parallels the death of pool as a gambling activity.(for the most part) Looking for live action in the casino world and for the games with minimum variance online I find that while these are available what is popular are the games with the greatest variance(luck) and wildest swings. Some casinos only offer three and four card poker for live play.

I recently took a closer look at the single table super turbo games online. I found people playing short stack games with a $200-$350 plus rake buy-in and fast increases in blinds. The strategy is simple, fold or go all in. You might as well, if you bet less somebody else is almost always going to force you to fold or go all in anyway. Other novelty games are hugely popular also. They all have one thing in common, huge swings. You can go from vastly ahead to vastly behind and back ahead in a few minutes. While skill is an asset longterm it is very possible to simply run lucky long enough to win a table. Some player is often eliminated in the very first hand and is off to another table if they aren't already playing three or four, maybe more.

Our governments and the people running gambling enterprises from casinos to lotteries, former horse tracks that are now casinos with a few horse races being ran outback, the local bar, restaurant, or pool hall, all realize that the true gamblers are there for the thrill. Anything that dilutes that thrill is counterproductive and reduces the business income. 14.1, dead as a gambling game although a stubborn few recognize it as a great game of skill and it seems to be growing as a recreation. Nine ball which was originally a wickedly quick way to win or lose? It became too slow for the action junkies and had to be speeded up. Eightball is the bangers delight and my favorite game to gamble on. Played properly only 14.1 or one pocket may require more skill. Two wily eightball players can make it rival one pocket. Trying to find somebody to gamble on eightball in a local pool hall is a lost cause. Mentioning one pocket, it seems to be bucking the trend. Not really though, it is increasing in popularity for two reasons. One is that it is becoming a run out game with the skills of today's players. The other thing is that it is often played by the game rather than the set. Money moves back and forth fast.

In the end all that the action junkies want is a thrill. A chance to win big and do it fast. Lose and have another chance to win big and do it fast. Repeat ad infinitem. Whatever seems to give them the fastest and easiest way to do that will always be flavor of the week. Deep down most people doubt their skills will win them the pot of gold so they seek methods of winning that rely heavily on luck. The more methods that are offered that rely largely on luck to win and win fast, the less action junkies we will find in activities that allow gambling or wagering and require skills and time to hone those skills. Adios horse racing, pool, and a thinking man's poker. They will be around for many more years as niche activities but they will all remain smaller and smaller niche activities. Poker is in the earliest stage of decline and may have a decade or three to run but there will soon be a select few playing the more traditional games and the rest will be playing video poker or the games that give either very few or very many cards, either of which allows for wild swings.

Gambling that requires a significant level of skill is basically dead. Too easy for gamblers to get their fix in activities that require little or no skill or appear to require little or no skill which amounts to the same thing. Activities that require skills that are heavily dependent on gambling to fund them are in deep trouble with the easy access to gambling in other venues now. Horse racing and pool as a livelihood definitely fit in that category. The poker pro's will soon have to accept huge variance as the price of fleecing the action junkies there too. Like pool, skill always wins in the long term at poker but runs of luck, good or bad, will get longer and longer as games change.

The only real hope for pool is a direct connection between the strong recreational market and the pro players. The middle step of gambling is no longer there or at least not deep or wide enough to represent a legitimate bridge in most areas. Probably a good thing from a moral standpoint but fatal to the dreams of most players hoping to make the transfer to the pro level. Without the underpinning of the players at the intermediate level, largely gamblers, there aren’t people to fill the fields of enough pro events for the pro’s to make a living.

My definition of a professional competitor is someone that makes enough to have a decent living solely from competition. They may do other things but they don't have to in order to live decently. How many full time professionals in the US net more a year from competitions after expenses than they would flipping burgers forty hours a week?

Hu
 
...The only real hope for pool is a direct connection between the strong recreational market and the pro players. The middle step of gambling is no longer there or at least not deep or wide enough to represent a legitimate bridge in most areas. Probably a good thing from a moral standpoint but fatal to the dreams of most players hoping to make the transfer to the pro level. Without the underpinning of the players at the intermediate level, largely gamblers, there aren’t people to fill the fields of enough pro events for the pro’s to make a living.

My definition of a professional competitor is someone that makes enough to have a decent living solely from competition. They may do other things but they don't have to in order to live decently. How many full time professionals in the US net more a year from competitions after expenses than they would flipping burgers forty hours a week?

You're right on the money [pun intended], Hu. That was a very well-written post, and there so much truth to it.

I see a lot of pro pool players gambling online at poker. Like you say, it's a quick fix for action.

It is true that there are many pro pool players who do not gamble. Ralf Souquet comes to mind, and I'd venture to guess he currently makes a living playing pool, so that's his profession.

What some folks may or may not realize is that in pool, even if you win $100,000 per year in tournament winings, close to half of it is taxes and expenses.

I can't tell you how many players I've seen win a $15,000 tournament here in the States, and after the money is chopped up with their backers, they pay their tournament expenses (hotel, travel, entry fee, food), and pay out savers, if any, they're lucky to bring up a dime or two.

I don't even have any local pool halls in my area. They're mostly bars with loud music and flat-screen TVs with sports games on them. They're nice enough, but pool is only an afterthought at these places. They are not what I consider a "real" pool room.

Leagues, recreational or social shooters, keep pool rooms thriving today.

Thank God, I never quit my day job! :D
 
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You're right on the money [pun intended], Hu. That was a very well-written post, and there so much truth to it.

I see a lot of pro pool players gambling online at poker. Like you say, it's a quick fix for action.

It is true that there are many pro pool players who do not gamble. Ralf Souquet comes to mind, and I'd venture to guess he currently makes a living playing pool, so that's his profession.

What some folks may or may not realize is that in pool, even if you win $100,000 per year in tournament winings, close to half of it is taxes and expenses.

I can't tell you how many players I've seen win a $15,000 tournament here in the States, and after the money is chopped up with their backers, they pay their tournament expenses (hotel, travel, entry fee, food), and pay out savers, if any, they're lucky to bring up a dime or two.

I don't even have any local pool halls in my area. They're mostly bars with loud music and flat-screen TVs with sports games on them. They're nice enough, but pool is only an afterthought at these places. They are not what I consider a "real" pool room.

Leagues, recreational or social shooters, keep pool rooms thriving today.

I used to be a very strong pool enthusiast for professional pool. I would try to help promote events, post updates and trip reports on all the pool forums, and invested a lot of my money into keeping up with that pro tournament trail.

My reward on this forum, the biggest pool-related forum on the Net, after investing six figures in pool, to include charity events, supporting aspiring pro players by paying their entry fees, and mailing out promotional material -- FREE OF CHARGE -- within the past decade and investing my time in doing everything I can to promote pool is that I am labeled a groupie, my boyfriend is a no-good scumbag, and I'm nothing more than a defender of gambling degenerates.

Pool is cruel to its own. I realize not everybody feels this way about me, but it gets old reading mean-spirited words written by a forum bully who carry himself off as a pool teacher when he's never won a tournament of any significance, can can't run four balls in a row, yet claims he can help others learn how to play. What a joke! This monster is what the pool culture has created on this forum.

Thank God, I never quit my day job! :D



Jennie,

You did make some lifelong friends with those great reports. They are the first thing I remember about when I came to AZB. As a photographer with considerably better equipment I was a little jealous of the great photo's you were capturing in low light conditions with a point and shoot camera too.

As you know from pool and I know from other forms of competition, the winnings are only a gross figure and net is what puts beans on the table and pays the bills. Back before rodeo hit it big the world champion bull rider won $120,000 one year. Travel expenses alone were over that.

When it comes to gambling the action people are always at a severe disadvantage to the nits as groups. The action players always want in action. The nits move in when conditions are right and quit without the least damage to pride or ego when the conditions aren't strongly in their favor.

As for talkers and doers, the talkers are always at an advantage in battles of words. They have no track record to attack. Those that can do, Those that can't don't teach, they talk. Far better to have given something a shot and fell short than to never have tried at all. I look back on a lot of my life with regrets, almost all about what I didn't do when I had a chance. In pool I regret not taking a ride with Danny Medina when he offered in the mid eighties. Would have been a hell of a trip back then! I had family blessings to take a shot at a pro career in the early seventies too but the deal was the same then as now, maybe a little worse. Only the top half-dozen weren't going to have to gamble, and not be picky who they gambled with or their backers, to survive. I looked at other paths with better odds.

I wish for much more for pool but barring somebody with a strong amateur organization taking an interest in pro pool I think what we have is about as good as it is going to get. Pool looks for sugar daddies and overnight success. It could happen but the odds are much better for more things like the IPT and Galveston, outside investors finding the felt isn't nearly as green as they thought. What success pool may have will have to be grown from inside, pool players. A daydream, what if the APA collected one dollar from every player in each weekly event to fund a pro tour with each pro required to give 40 hours or so a year in return to benefit the amateur side? Build in levels of professional play so there was a path from APA recreational player to Open Pro with steps in between. Not necessarily the APA but a dream somebody with vision and drive could make happen. The catch, they have to have a long range vision, it wouldn't happen overnight. First you have to build a large amateur base and then slowly add pro events. A five to ten year project, maybe longer.

Hu
 
...The catch, they have to have a long range vision, it wouldn't happen overnight. First you have to build a large amateur base and then slowly add pro events. A five to ten year project, maybe longer.

I agree, Hu. I guess I should be patient. I think that is *exactly* what Mark Griffin is doing with the CSI and BCA league. Maybe better things are up ahead! :cool:
 
one of the good guys I think

I agree, Hu. I guess I should be patient. I think that is *exactly* what Mark Griffin is doing with the CSI and BCA league. Maybe better things are up ahead! :cool:

I don't know Mark well, we have corresponded a little I believe. Like many, I have talked to Sunny more! :D He does seem like one of the good guys in pool and there is a lot of difference between his BCAPL and the BCA. Confusing because his league was purchased from and spun off the BCA I believe and I'm not sure typing at the moment if the initials I typed are right. However my understanding is that there is zero business connection between the BCA and BCAPL now. Mark is one of the people I put some real hope for pool behind. There are some good people with brains and drive out there, I'm sure even in the organizations. Problem is that with organizations they all soon seem to be full of people pulling in every direction at once and getting nowhere.

There are a few people with dreams and plans that if implemented could grow into something big. It's going to take time to happen but no more time than it would have taken had we started in that direction five, ten, or thirty years ago. Bites to be one of the very best at something like Keith was, may still be, and have nowhere to go with your skills. Too late for our generation, not too late to build something for the next one.

Hu
 
Welcome to the 21st century version of social interaction, there may be a backlash one day and all the children will suddenly go out side and start to play again, we can only hope :)
 
Leagues

Been a big fan of leagues since the '89 Nashville trade show.
They can be the foundation of pool...fans,promoters, and players.
Shane Van Boening is a decent example of the player part.

I feel the strong snooker field was partially the result of 50 years of
snooker leagues at working men's clubs in Britain...although it could
have been run more wisely at it's peak....golf has had all the luck in
that respect.

And I think Mark Griffin can do a lot
 
Original question was in part, "What Happened to the Local Pool Hall?" IMHO the local Pool Hall of yesteryear is now a Bar, Sports Bar, or Pool Room that serves Alcohol. Most of these place make the money to pay the bill off BOOZE, and not Pool.

A Pool Room use to be when I was young a place where people gathered to play pool, watch great pool being played, watch pool players gamble on their skill for an amount of money that the rail birds watching worked for all week.

Like the guy said in the movie The Hustler; "No bar, no pinball machines, no bowling alleys, just pool... nothing else. This is Ames, mister. "
 
Original question was in part, "What Happened to the Local Pool Hall?" IMHO the local Pool Hall of yesteryear is now a Bar, Sports Bar, or Pool Room that serves Alcohol. Most of these place make the money to pay the bill off BOOZE, and not Pool.

A Pool Room use to be when I was young a place where people gathered to play pool, watch great pool being played, watch pool players gamble on their skill for an amount of money that the rail birds watching worked for all week.

Like the guy said in the movie The Hustler; "No bar, no pinball machines, no bowling alleys, just pool... nothing else. This is Ames, mister. "

Ain't that righ! What happened to just admiration of insane skill. Who needs a video game when you can watch someone run racks with swagger.
 
Pool is not dieing. We just need to market it right. As much as I love action, the hustling bit has to go. Color of money II with Vince on the tourney circuit...meow.
 
Pool is not dieing. We just need to market it right. As much as I love action, the hustling bit has to go. Color of money II with Vince on the tourney circuit...meow.

I dunno that there is any marketing trick that can make it big. It's not dying but I don't think it'll be a huge sport. Hu feels that's because pool requires too much skill and patience for people to gamble on. I won't disagree exactly, it's just that... you could dumb down pool to reduce the skill needed, and maybe make it quicker for those instant-gratification gambler types. You can play slop-counts 3-ball paid by the rack instead of call-shot+option 10-ball sets. But ultimately if it doesn't involve tits or trick shots, nobody will roll out of bed to watch it. And if nobody watches it, it can't be a 'huge sport', just a fun pastime.
 
I dunno that there is any marketing trick that can make it big. It's not dying but I don't think it'll be a huge sport. Hu feels that's because pool requires too much skill and patience for people to gamble on. I won't disagree exactly, it's just that... you could dumb down pool to reduce the skill needed, and maybe make it quicker for those instant-gratification gambler types. You can play slop-counts 3-ball paid by the rack instead of call-shot+option 10-ball sets. But ultimately if it doesn't involve tits or trick shots, nobody will roll out of bed to watch it. And if nobody watches it, it can't be a 'huge sport', just a fun pastime.

It ain't just a past time!:angry:
 
It ain't just a past time!:angry:

haha I'm not knocking it, I wouldn't be here if I didn't love it. I guess I have trouble calling it a sport (too serious) or game (not serious enough). Pastime and recreational activity aren't serious enough either I guess.

I dunno, it's just pool. Fun to play, boring to watch for most, playing it yourself helps make it interesting but even that's no guarantee you'll stay awake.
 
haha I'm not knocking it, I wouldn't be here if I didn't love it. I guess I have trouble calling it a sport (too serious) or game (not serious enough). Pastime and recreational activity aren't serious enough either I guess.

I dunno, it's just pool. Fun to play, boring to watch for most, playing it yourself helps make it interesting but even that's no guarantee you'll stay awake.

Creedo, look, if you want pro pool to be a huge sport, pay for all my expenses for 2 years, buy me a typewriter...send me to the bahamas...some spending money. I will write the badest screenplay. BAM!

well be rich.
Serious.
 
As stated pool is a game of skill and it's life or death cannot be decided via it's success as a gambling game or it is doomed.

Pool needs to embrace skill, increase difficulty, and attempt to become an impressive spectator sport which showcases skill much like golf. The switch to 10-ball was a great start getting rid of wing ball soft breaks and mutliple pack runs. Now the possible future shift to 10-foot tables could also bring back some of the respect the sport slowly started to lose about 5 decades ago (about the same time they switched professional competition to a 9-foot table and took away some of the required skill to run balls).

The gamblers of the world are fine playing 3-ball for cash, but that game is not going to build this sport. It can become a huge gambling game but who the heck is going to want to watch it? That is the problem pool has always had, it attempts to balance it's gambling tuned games with it's professional level competition, a terrible idea. The pro's in tournaments need to play hard games, they need to play 10-ball on 10-foot tables that would destroy the average player. Pro golfers are not playing from the blue tees, they are playing from the tips and often times specially built tee boxes the public never even could use. The major golf event of the year, the Masters has greens that are so bloody quick pro golfers often times cannot even keep a putt on the putting surface. It is a game of golf so tough the general public has never even come close to playing it, and it is awesome to watch the pro's tested at that peak of their extremely high skills.

People with no skills most certainly want to play or gamble at games that take little skill and take mostly luck, but most people certainly don't want to "watch" people play games like that. Pool is going to make it or break it as any sport in the world does, as a spectator sport. If we cannot figure out how to get people to want to watch professionals play pool then we cannot move this sport forward where we all want it to be.
 
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