Cue Design Theft... Are You For or Against

Are You "For" or "Against" Cue Design Theft?

  • For - Anything is Fair Game

    Votes: 62 47.3%

  • Against - Unique Designs Should be Off Limits

    Votes: 69 52.7%
  • Total voters
    131
  • Poll closed .
ScottR said:
Yes you are. Unless you want to find one on the secondary market.

Scott
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Which was my whole point about this secondary market issue we all have been discussing...If I don't plan to EVER sell the cue that is from a secondary market, it is clearly labeled as Cuemaker B, and I don't claim or pretend it is from Cuemaker A from the main market...is that such a bad thing? Will it take away from potential customers from the Cuemaker from the main market since this other cuemaker can make something similar for a lower price? If there is a 7 year wait he must not be hurting for customers right?
 
Scallops Smallops....ha! ha! ha!

nick serdula said:
When Timi and Mike got tierd of everyone else building bridged veneer cues they stopped building them. The guys just wouldn't do it. They went in another direction.
And truely most people doing it now do not build them the way Timi and Mike did.
Scallops smallops. Just because another builder is doing them doesn't mean their construction methods are the same on the inside. You get what you pay for usually.
One mans deal is another man's follie.
This may not apply to anything here though. But chances are better than not it does.
Shouldn't let things get under your skin you can't control.
Nick :)
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Hey! Nick. You are now my hero. I'm getting tierd too pal. lol
Seriously, I agree with 12squared's statement on this subject.
"country" Bob
 
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I wondered when a thread like this would pop up. There is definetly a fine line when it comes to making cues and whether or not some are copies of other's. Defining copy is the key and more often than not, people play the "tribute" card when a cues looks very similar to another one made by another cuemaker. Another thing that must be taken into account is what if someone had a cue they really liked and it was stolen, sold, broke etc and they had a different cuemaker build them a new one to the exact same spec's, I see nothing wrong with that. To call a cue a copy of another one, it would have to be almost identical imo otherwise you could call any cue with a wide maple band in the buttsleeve a Southwest copy or and 4 point cue with veneers a Szamboti, Balabushke, Spain, etc copy. Cue's are just like every other mass produced item, there is only so much you can do with 29 inches.
 
cuesblues said:
Jamie was pretty specific about "unique designs" and I don't think there's any justification for copying a unique design.
Maybe the word "current" should be added.
Designs that were unique 20-years ago, are common now.

Taking a current unique design and finding a cuemaker to copy it seems like a weird thing to do.
There's so many nice cues out there and great cue builders to build them, why would anyone want to do that.
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If things that were unique 20-30 years ago are common now....how did they get that way?!?!?!?!?!?

just sayin'
 
Pretty sick of people screaming "patent it!". That's not a reasonable thing to do when adding or subtracting .25mm will get around it... and taking someone to court is hopeless. You have to pay court fees AND fund all the collection efforts if you win. This is also assuming the offending cuemaker is in the same country.

It's obviously wrong to anybody with a remotely functional moral compass. I don't need a patent to tell me somebody's a shady ****er.
 
I agree

Spimp13 said:
Which was my whole point about this secondary market issue we all have been discussing...If I don't plan to EVER sell the cue that is from a secondary market, it is clearly labeled as Cuemaker B, and I don't claim or pretend it is from Cuemaker A from the main market...is that such a bad thing? Will it take away from potential customers from the Cuemaker from the main market since this other cuemaker can make something similar for a lower price? If there is a 7 year wait he must not be hurting for customers right?
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I was thinking the same thing. If the cue "tribute" is not being sold, offered, or advertised as anything but what it is - a cue made by cuemaker B, then what is the problem? I guess it would be a problem if cuemaker B becomes "better" at it than the original creator - cuemaker A. But once again, that seems to be all in the eye of the cueholder. Cues shoot differently and cost differently, no matter how similar they might be in LOOKS - and when it comes down to it, most people are limited by $$$. People buy what they can afford, and everyone's wallet is different. And in the end everybody knows the difference between cuemaker a and cuemaker b's works - it can be quite obvious. Though who truly knows how they hit differently? You won't until you own/play with one from each cuemaker. Isn't this how improvements and the whole art of cuemaking is upgraded? It's like cue Darwinism - where the best will rise and the weaker ones will fall to the side. I am for cue DARWINISM!!!

BTW - would this be less of an argument spreading across a few areas of AZB if cuemaker b wasn't from the Philippines?


Just asking.

Michael
 
GoTulane said:
BTW - would this be less of an argument spreading across a few areas of AZB if cuemaker b wasn't from the Philippines?


Just asking.

Michael
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Michael, this question was already posed and answered. Not sure if it was this thread or the other thread started by Servicky. They have blended together over the last few days...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
12squared said:
Ouch, "...my father's artwork"??????? and there's your sign.

Nice find, Joe.

Dave
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Thanks, but I'll be the first to say it was sent to me because of my no fear attitude about posting. For or against, is irrelevent. What is important that worse than guys who scream about cue design theft, then sell flat out tributes, are guys who say, well I didn't know I was copying, and I don't normally do it, then gets caught with more.

JV
 
SpiderJerusalem said:
If things that were unique 20-30 years ago are common now....how did they get that way?!?!?!?!?!?

just sayin'
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You're just saying, but it's a key issue.

Who makes the determination of what is acceptable to borrow? (or copy)

How much of the design is acceptable?

Why hasn't anyone ie; cuemakers association, taken the baton and run with it? (cause most are guilty.. shhhhh)

If cues are art, why don't all the art trademark, copyrights, etc.. used in determining a standard so the practice is equal across the board?

Why hasn't a lawyer been hired? (because by law, if I take a design and make it identical, but move an inlay .0005 of an inch, it's technically a new design)

It would take ridiculous money to see what could and couldn't be covered. But the best is when I hear that cues are art. If they are art, then act like artists. When an artist dies, their estates take over all art from that artist. Which means you can't make a copy without permission. If this was to be voted on by, lets sat the ACA, then someone would be setting a precedent, which is really what's needed here.

A hypothetical situation would be, the Balabushkas sold the name, and then sold the artistic rights of all Georges works to Adam. If this was possible, they could sue anyone that made an IDENTICAL Bushka. However no one would make an identical Bushka, and it could easily be defeated due to any number of design points.

http://www.fineartregistry.com/articles/art-legalities/artist-legal-tips.php

If the cuemakers really saw this as an issue, and all joined the ACA, ICA or whomever, a general rule could be enforced. However as in any organization, it will be hard to punish friends, and peers, and ultimately nothing would be accomplished. No one wants to hurt feelings.

JV (---I am all for whatever is voted, or past history, past history says copy becuase it was done by everybody
 
There is no way that everybody is going to agree on anything in this situation. I've been around for a while and I can say that a lot of things are done today the never would have been tried 40 years ago. Our moral compass has changed. Adopting elements of a design is one thing, using the whole thing is another.
 
SpiderJerusalem said:
If things that were unique 20-30 years ago are common now....how did they get that way?!?!?!?!?!?

just sayin'
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My guess is that techniques were never patented, designs became public domain,
cuebuilder's worked or collaborated together, cuebuilding partner's split up,
someone retires and someone takes over, apprenticeships, evolution,
knockoff's, and yes, the dreaded tribute cues.
 
i don't know what to say about this. my cue has a lot of design elements simillar to older cues from the balabushka era. i had dick neighbors make it for me. i mean i can't really afford an original balabushka and he's long passed away so does that mean my cue is a rip off? i chose the colors for the veneers. and i have never seen black, grey, blue, white veneers together, but the diamonds and dots and the places for the ringwork, the ebony butt sleeve and white butt cap are all things i have seen on many other cues. meucci ol1's are simillar. richard black, pechauer, searing and a bunch of other people make simillar cues as does pete tascarella and many others. so i think it's ok. but i have seen cues with very specific things like some of the museum quality stuff richard black does. i don't think it would be kosher to copy that - if you had the talent. i think there has to be a middle area. just for example here is my cue
DSC_00097.jpg
 
jrt30004 said:
i don't know what to say about this. my cue has a lot of design elements simillar to older cues from the balabushka era. i had dick neighbors make it for me. i mean i can't really afford an original balabushka and he's long passed away so does that mean my cue is a rip off? i chose the colors for the veneers. and i have never seen black, grey, blue, white veneers together, but the diamonds and dots and the places for the ringwork, the ebony butt sleeve and white butt cap are all things i have seen on many other cues. meucci ol1's are simillar. richard black, pechauer, searing and a bunch of other people make simillar cues as does pete tascarella and many others. so i think it's ok. but i have seen cues with very specific things like some of the museum quality stuff richard black does. i don't think it would be kosher to copy that - if you had the talent. i think there has to be a middle area. just for example here is my cue
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No, it looks nothing like a Bushka imo. But that's the whole point to all this discussion......everyone has different opinions, differing understandings of design elements and differing levels of perceived "copy" or "design theft".
 
In alot of ways , making what someone else has designed, is really a compliment to the original designer.
It shows that the design has appeal, functionality,style, but also shows that the copier has no initiative or imagination or design flare.
There are lots of skilled artists that can copy a master piece, yet are unable to create their own.
 
I'm with the "for" to a degree. Like Titlist Tributes are stolen, I'm having one built now. We'd have some ugly looking cues by now if we couldnt build a Bushka type cue, etc.
 
Who was the thief?

Regarding plastic windows and foil covered tenons in the butt.
Who was the innovator and who were the thieves between Balabushka, Palmer, and Paradise?

I just saw a 'Szamboti style' Tim Scruggs from '96. Other than a fifth veneer and the TS in the butt, it would have passed. Paul Mottey does some great Szamboti inspired designs.

With closed or 10-year waiting lists, if there is a design you want and a capable cue maker will make it, I don't see the big deal. At this year's SBE, it was apparent that the quality of cue making is at an all time high.

Greg
 
subdude1974 said:
Aside from the scallops, I have seen no copies. Cues dont look alike. Question though. Are scallops like tiny butterflies? Just curious. I think you can see where I am going with this.

And to answer the question. I dont give a shit. Eric is a self proclaimed ass that I will never have any desire to acquire one of his cues. And there are some members here that I have lost a lot of respect for. I know I am a small fish in a big pond. Hell, not even a fish. Tadpole maybe. But I know that right and wrong manner in which to talk to people and the other thread and this one are the wrong way to go about it. Bottom line, grow up, show some sack and keep on truckin'.

By the way, this should be in the main forum as this has no pictures or is trying to show technique. It is a POLL. These go in the main forum. And here is my vote. I vote for the 3rd option. Grow up.
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Bottom line, grow up, show some sack and keep on truckin...what does that even mean? we are talking about cue design you dooche bag.....talk about losing respect....
 
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