LOL, I see you don't see well with squinted eyes.
To core or not to core
- Thread starter Guerra Cues
- Start date
LOL, I see you don't see well with squinted eyes.
Is he supposed to know something?
when it takes 2000 years to build a cue, the wood is probably good and seasoned by then
Oh boy. Another can of worms.
And Mr Dayton knows coring burl wood handles.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=1182555&postcount=10
Mr. Searing and Mr. Dayton, both great cuemakers.
Last edited:
Dennis is no stranger to coring. I'm not sure if he cores or not, can't recall talking about that. But he wouldn't need to. He uses maple fronts & it's rarely if ever fantastically figured, so the woods he's using are already very stable & great tone woods to begin with. Even still, I wouldn't say he doesn't core. I'd have to ask him. Just saying I can easily understand if he doesn't. The only benefit would be stability insurance, and that would be a stretch.
Coring=flexibility and consistency.
This is what sold me.....I took 10 BE forearms and cored 5 and treated all 10 the same when turning and hanging. 5 years later the 5 with cores are dead straight and the 5 without were not. I do not core everything but if the project calls for it, I core it. If you're using highly figured woods, burls or heavy rosewoods as your structural pieces, I believe it is almost a must. IMO, coring does not mean you have to punch a hole from end to end on the piece of wood you're working with.
I do not like laminated male pieces for cores. My dowels are treated just like shaft wood and are cut over time. The movers get chucked.
This is what sold me.....I took 10 BE forearms and cored 5 and treated all 10 the same when turning and hanging. 5 years later the 5 with cores are dead straight and the 5 without were not. I do not core everything but if the project calls for it, I core it. If you're using highly figured woods, burls or heavy rosewoods as your structural pieces, I believe it is almost a must. IMO, coring does not mean you have to punch a hole from end to end on the piece of wood you're working with.
I do not like laminated male pieces for cores. My dowels are treated just like shaft wood and are cut over time. The movers get chucked.
Word!
I don't know why laminated core woods exist .
Finding great core material is cheap and easy.
Hi,
I agree 100%. A handle with a tenon for the A-Joint and a long one for the butt cap and sleeve is the way a lot of cue makers assemble and do their thing. If you assemble your cue this way and the handle moves, there is a problem.
Since expanding polyurethane glues ie. gorilla glue has become available for filling the annulus between a core and a dowel it's a no brainer. Old school guys who don't want to change are entitled to keep doing what brought them to the dance and that's fine.
I love the ring of a fully cored cue with GG.
Rick G.
All of my field testing has also showed there is no reason for laminated dowels as seasoned maple dowels that make the grade works just fine. I have not had one cue come back to me that has warped.
Last edited:
I use the core as the tenon going down the handle. My core is 15" long.
I only assemble when the handle has been pre-tapered and seasoned.
IF the handle moves, it's easy to recenter the bottom to make sure the whole assembly is still concentric to the core dowel.
The A-joint can be a pain and an enemy but it can also be the best friend in making GREAT hitting cues. I believe in opposing density woods in cue assembly.
Just as guitars are made. The whole guitar is not made of the same wood.
Nothing wrong with a single piece dowel of course.
I do the same. My handles are 12" with 16.5" cores. They are cut to within .020" of finish size before assembly. I have to be more worried about getting the cue together on true center than I do about movement. After I join the cue I shave a .005-.010" cut to true up the cue as the two components are never exactly the same size before assembly. From there I glue on the sleeve & cap, then do joint rings & collars, then take the last few thou off to reach my final size. All components are well stable & sized long before the cues go together.
I know builders who put cues together much larger and then take slow cuts with time between each cut. That would scare the crap out of me. I'd always be worried that it would move & even though I could recenter & cut it straight again, the "A" joint will never be on true center again. I'd rather assemble at barely over finish size with knowing that every components is true & stable.
To core or not!!!!!
Originally Posted by QMAKER View Post
Most of my cues are cored with purpleheart. I would add elimination of the "A"
joint as a major factor in my decision to make a full length core for all my cues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rheester View Post
could you elaborate? i'm putting together a full length cored ph cue and wanted to know what your opinions as to pros and cons.
thanks
Most of the pros have been all listed above. I cannot think of any cons except it may take more time and equipment than the conventional method. My word of advice would be to make sure your 29" core is dead straight, your core holes are dead straight and all your faces are dead square. If they are not you will put a bow in your core and cause yourself a lot of problems. The "A" joint (actually there is no "A" joint) end of my forearm has a 7/8"x1" socket bored into it and the core has a matching tenon. This way the forearm has a firm seat to sit on when you screw on your joint sleeve. On the butt end I thread the core 3/4-10 and thread on a matching butt cap in order to make sure the handle and butt sleeve are also in compression. The "A" joint end of the handle sits against the 7/8" tenon which is faced off square to the forearm. My website has some pics of this procedure. Good luck.
__________________
Originally Posted by QMAKER View Post
Most of my cues are cored with purpleheart. I would add elimination of the "A"
joint as a major factor in my decision to make a full length core for all my cues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rheester View Post
could you elaborate? i'm putting together a full length cored ph cue and wanted to know what your opinions as to pros and cons.
thanks
Most of the pros have been all listed above. I cannot think of any cons except it may take more time and equipment than the conventional method. My word of advice would be to make sure your 29" core is dead straight, your core holes are dead straight and all your faces are dead square. If they are not you will put a bow in your core and cause yourself a lot of problems. The "A" joint (actually there is no "A" joint) end of my forearm has a 7/8"x1" socket bored into it and the core has a matching tenon. This way the forearm has a firm seat to sit on when you screw on your joint sleeve. On the butt end I thread the core 3/4-10 and thread on a matching butt cap in order to make sure the handle and butt sleeve are also in compression. The "A" joint end of the handle sits against the 7/8" tenon which is faced off square to the forearm. My website has some pics of this procedure. Good luck.
__________________
If movement is a concern, then my method for the butt sleeve is not for those in a hurry. The same fashion that the A-joint is put together, is the same way I attach my butt sleeve.
This let's me really fine tune the cues balance. And precision is a must as if the A-joint moves your point height moves, now if the butt sleeve is not true, point height is affected again.
Coreing is a huge part of my cues, stability and weight control etc etc plus the added stability of the cored piece plus seasoned wood, let's me attach the butt sleeve the way I do and still sleep at night.
Nothing at all wrong with doing butts like that. I have done them like that, too. Really is a good technique for adding weight. But yeah, you then have to get the center back on dead nuts or else everything will be off. No biggie, not too tough to accomplish. Points are one main reason I assemble cues at near finish size. If I get the cue together on dead center then my points are always even.
Granted, I'm a novice, but it almost seems like most do it just because everyone else is doing it. The process of getting shaft wood snow white degrades the fibers, but that's what the industry expects, so that's what everyone tries to deliver. Yes, coring obviously insures stability, but there are cues floating around that are older than me and still straight without the aid of coring.
A 1969 Camero is a badass hotrod. But the way Chevy builds them now is better than the way they built them back then. We can still appreciate those old cars & they are still very fast & fun to drive. But it doesn't mean we can't continue to advance & strive for better. Settling for "good enough" isn't good enough.
If we didn't strive for better then we'd still be living in caves. It's in our DNA to advance forward. Nobody knows where that road goes but we're all on it, always have been, always will be. Even when disaster strikes & knocks us back, we get up & continue forward. We can't help it. It's being human. If a human isn't striving to move forward then they are holding the rest back & need to be eliminated. It's what scientists call "natural selection". So maybe it's not as simple as people doing things just because everybody else does it. Maybe it's the natural order of things. If we're all doing it then it increases the odds of somebody finding a way to do it better, which then advances us all forward. It's human. It's why we dominate lions tigers & bears.
This is great information, I have done it both ways since I learned the hard way by trial and error. I started building with parts oversized, and sometimes it worked well, however, others were a disaster. Over time I have learned that the method you are using is the best way to do business and it is the only way I will do things now.
I hope others are paying attention to what you said here it will save them some headaches and less time taking mistakes to the band saw!!!!!!!
Great Information
I am 90% self-taught, and I never even considered putting parts together that were way oversized. I also never understood putting a joint pin in a cue before it was at finished size.
My method is really similar to above, handles get installed with the forearm 10-20 thou. oversized. I've seen plenty of cues with off-center joint pins, A-Joint pins, etc. All a result of assembling parts too soon.