Great post geno ,if the ref was mark shuman,i agree get a more suitable ref,iwas playing 1pocket at dcc ,we are lagging for the break,so the lag is very close,well over comes mark and he goes down the opposite side of the table to call what ball is closer,now keep in mind he his over 14 feet from the balls,and makes the call,he was standing at the wrong side of the table and about 5 feet away from the table,u tell me how he could see from that distant what ball was closer?is this possiable?
Foul or no foul? You be the ref.
- Thread starter jason
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When I made the call I only watched it once and did not stop the video.
Having now reviewed the video in stop motion I agree it is a good shot.
Hatch is a 100% right ,that was a bullshit call,there shuman goes again calling shots ,while he is too far away,if shuman thought it was going to be a close hit he should of been in the rite position,he totally blew that call!
If you watch closely it looks like like Raj called a foul before the ref did, did anyone else see this? If this is the case the opponent needs to be silent instead of possible "influencing" the ref. (I'm not suggesting that the ref wasn't neutral)
I think the problem in this situation is neither Raj nor Ken were watching closely enough.
It is a natural reaction when in the heat of battle to react to it like Raj did. I don't think he was intentionally trying to influence Ken. Did he influence Ken by standing up? Probably, but again...I don't think either were paying enough attention to the shot.
After almost 100 people being polled, we still have 20% of the people calling it a foul. This was a tricky call if you weren't closely paying attention.
I agree a 100% with you and was not trying to imply any intentional wrongdoing by either of them. It is a natural response on Raj's part. I also think it's it's great to have the instant replay. Anyone can have a momentary lapse in judgement, but it would be a shame if Dennis was punished with a foul after he made a legal hit.
As Neil observes, the end table position (which end usually doesn't matter) is the ONLY proper position to judge a lag. There are a couple of intracacies to-be paid attention to, but if applied properly it is far, far more accurate than any other acceptable method.
By the way, if you are using anything in your hand to actually try to measure ball to cushion distance, your method is unacceptable. It shouldn't be hard to figure out why.
On a different note, several people here have hinted at an issue relevant to the rules that is relevant to the OP call (which, based on the available information here, was properly corrected to good hit). At work now and doing this on my phone, but will come back later to see if anyone gets to it in a more direct way...
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I like this thread. No foul.
At carom there is actually a directive against using any device to measure ball distances on the lag. Any lag that is too close for the ref to call visually is played again.
Great post geno ,if the ref was mark shuman,i agree get a more suitable ref,iwas playing 1pocket at dcc ,we are lagging for the break,so the lag is very close,well over comes mark and he goes down the opposite side of the table to call what ball is closer,now keep in mind he his over 14 feet from the balls,and makes the call,he was standing at the wrong side of the table and about 5 feet away from the table,u tell me how he could see from that distant what ball was closer?is this possiable?
actually you get a better call on the lag from the far end of the table if you stand between the 2 balls and line one up even with the top of the rail and look at the other the ball that is the highest in reference to the rail nose is closest to the rail. This is taught in most referee schools.
One thing that I have noticed in these situations is when a ref is called over to watch a hit and make a call, many times they are way to quick to make the call after the shot. It's like they are a sprinter and once they hear the gun they immediately take off. In other words, right after contact with the object ball or balls is made they shout "Good Hit" or "Bad Hit".
My recommendation is to actually take a breath and make sure you are making the right call before actually announcing it. I would much rather someone take a few seconds to deliberate on the call and get it right than blurt something out only to have an argument ensue and then end up changing the call.
Some shots are obvious so the quick call is fine in these situations but don't be afraid to take a couple of seconds to make your call if need be.
Nice thread.
My recommendation is to actually take a breath and make sure you are making the right call before actually announcing it. I would much rather someone take a few seconds to deliberate on the call and get it right than blurt something out only to have an argument ensue and then end up changing the call.
Some shots are obvious so the quick call is fine in these situations but don't be afraid to take a couple of seconds to make your call if need be.
Nice thread.
Well thank u very much for sitting me straight,i had no idea,u and neil say the same thing ,so it must be true,i guess the ref would still have to have great vision to make a call like that,but what you said does make alot of sence to me,thanks,richie!