Two foul,push out 9 ball.
- Thread starter richiebalto
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Once a player takes the push from opponent, all players are back to ZERO fouls.
If you push out and the opponent takes it and fouls, if you don't like the lay of the balls , make him shoot, and then if he fouls , you get ball in hand anywhere.
Truth be known you don't want to be pushing out anywhere if you can help it, because all your doing is giving your opponent a chance at a turn back at the table so he can beat you!
The secret to rolling out is when your in trouble on the lay and you think you can push to where you think your bank, cut or make a jump shot maybe better than your opponents, after you make several of them, your opponet will be taking every roll out you push too, that's when you push to super hard shots and they go for them and leave you set up.
You still play safties, you can play a saftey so that your opponent can't roll out anywhere and you not be able to reasonably make the shot, lot's of strategy.
After about one set of this, you'll be a Pro at, Two Shot Roll Out, just hope that your on the winners side when you realize how this great game is truely played.
David Harcrow
Greeat! By that rule, you push, I push back. Brilliant!
I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.I don't like the bank, so I push to a jump. You don't like the jump, so you push to a bank. I like this.
Walter,
You cannot push out on a push out.
You did take a considerable amount of time explaining why. I appreciate your thoroughness.
Ray
(Now)
You can not re-push, this is Gentlemans pool, either take the shot, or pass it back.
David Harcrow
Actually there was a version of pushout where you could re-push. It was rarely played but it was there.The thing was that after you re-pushed now you're both on one and now whoever shoots must make a good hit or it's ball in hand.
The idea behind this was if you were playing a sharp shooter and if he pushed to a position where his chances of making the shot were greater than your chances, you then repushed to force who ever took the shot to basically play safe. This usually took their better ball pocketing ability away from them. I know because I beat many better players than myself with this strategy.
However, the most widely played version of pushout was any two consecutive fouls was ball in hand.
In either case if there was a tournament with pushout rules they need to be prepared to add some time to the duration. This is why Texas express is better suited for tournaments. The time for matches can be better gaged.
Yes your right, I remember playing it that way during gambling matches, one time Calvin was playing Ermond Bullard,Gary Seay, and Billy Wier down at Cainey City,TX., just south of Dallas back in the early 80's.
Those guy's were eating Calvin's lunch pushing out for the jump shot, making it every single time with the watermelon cue ball, after a few weeks of watching that I told Calvin he had to re-push out for a cut or bank, so we then played the game the way you described.
Roll Out will take somewhat longer to play some matches, hopefully the shot clock will help them along.
Matches between some players will progress rather speedily tho, the ones that don't mess around and run balls, and others will creep slowly.
Roll Out for tournaments tho should be take it/or pass it. IMHO
David Harcrow
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Get on the list NOW!!!
Old School entries are already coming in and the stand by list is filling too!!
Ray
gpeezy
for sale!
i like the roll out, i like to shoot, i hate playing safe, roll out is nascar before restricter plates
"Country Calvin Classic"?
For some reason, I'm picturing Calvin & Hobbes, but wearing coveralls and chewing tobacco...
J/K, Ray. Sounds like a refreshing new twist on a game that's been needing defibrillation paddles for a while...
-Sean
Roll out on roll out
Gentleman's agreement not to re-roll out? The lawyers will laugh and have a field day. If there's no penalty then there's no enforceable rule. It would be better to make the push out the initial foul and if either player shoots the followup shot and fouls then they give up ball in hand.
Here are Roll Out rules in BCA style legalese:
Two Foul Ball in Hand Nine Ball
The shooting player (Player A) must strike the lowest numbered ball on the table first with the cue ball, driving either an object ball or the cue ball into a rail in order for the shot to be considered legal. If a foul is committed by Player A, the incoming player (Player B) has the option of either taking the shot himself or having Player A shoot the shot. (Technically by "rolling out" Player A has intentionally committed a foul.)
If Player B chooses to have Player A shoot then on the next shot Player A executes a legal shot and does not commit a second consecutive foul his foul is erased. If Player A fouls then Player B is awarded ball in hand. (Hence the name of the rules being "Two Foul Ball in Hand.") Player A's fouls are also erased with the awarding of ball in hand to Player B. Unlike One Foul Ball in Hand it is not possible to lose the game through committing three consecutive fouls.
If Player B chooses to shoot after Player A's first foul, then player A's inning is over and Player A's foul is erased and it does not count against him on his next shot. If after accepting the Roll Out Player B shoots and fouls, then Player A is awarded Ball In Hand and player B's foul is erased. (The reason for this rule is to avoid having both players repeatedly roll out without attempting to strike the lowest numbered object ball, thereby stalemating the game.)
If Player A commits a scratching foul: either pocketing the cue ball or knocking the cue ball off the table; the cue ball is placed by the incoming shooter anywhere the they choose above the head string (also known as "in the kitchen"). Because scratching is a foul, Player B has the option of either taking the shot themselves or of making Player A take the shot. If Player A commits a second consecutive foul then Player B is awarded ball in hand and can then place the cue ball anywhere they wish on the table. If Player B exercises their option and takes the shot themselves and then Player B commits a foul then Player A gets Ball In Hand and player B's fouls are erased.
If a ball is pocketed and there is a foul, the object ball shall be returned to the table on the foot spot only if it is either the nine ball or the last ball on the table before the nine ball. (This is termed "spotting one before the money".) For example: if Player A shoots at and pockets the seven ball and the cue ball scratches (goes into a pocket or leaves the table) and the eight ball is no longer on the table then the seven ball shall be spotted on the foot spot and the incoming Player B gets cue ball in hand behind the head string. Because a scratch is a foul, Player B has the option of either taking the shot on the spotted seven ball or of making Player A shoot. If Player B makes Player A shoot and Player A commits a second consecutive foul then Player B gets Ball In Hand and is allowed to place the cue ball anywhere on the table they wish. If Player B takes the shot Player A's foul is erased and if Player B shoots and fouls, then Player A is awarded Ball In Hand and player B's foul is erased.
If Player A fouls by either pocketing the cue ball or knocking it off the table and the lowest numbered ball that is one before the nine is behind the head string that lowest numbered ball shall be spotted on the foot spot and the cue ball shall be placed anywhere behind the head string the incoming shooter,Player B wishes. Again Player B has the option of either taking the shot themselves or making Player A take the shot and the rules stated before apply.
Gentleman's agreement not to re-roll out? The lawyers will laugh and have a field day. If there's no penalty then there's no enforceable rule. It would be better to make the push out the initial foul and if either player shoots the followup shot and fouls then they give up ball in hand.
Here are Roll Out rules in BCA style legalese:
Two Foul Ball in Hand Nine Ball
The shooting player (Player A) must strike the lowest numbered ball on the table first with the cue ball, driving either an object ball or the cue ball into a rail in order for the shot to be considered legal. If a foul is committed by Player A, the incoming player (Player B) has the option of either taking the shot himself or having Player A shoot the shot. (Technically by "rolling out" Player A has intentionally committed a foul.)
If Player B chooses to have Player A shoot then on the next shot Player A executes a legal shot and does not commit a second consecutive foul his foul is erased. If Player A fouls then Player B is awarded ball in hand. (Hence the name of the rules being "Two Foul Ball in Hand.") Player A's fouls are also erased with the awarding of ball in hand to Player B. Unlike One Foul Ball in Hand it is not possible to lose the game through committing three consecutive fouls.
If Player B chooses to shoot after Player A's first foul, then player A's inning is over and Player A's foul is erased and it does not count against him on his next shot. If after accepting the Roll Out Player B shoots and fouls, then Player A is awarded Ball In Hand and player B's foul is erased. (The reason for this rule is to avoid having both players repeatedly roll out without attempting to strike the lowest numbered object ball, thereby stalemating the game.)
If Player A commits a scratching foul: either pocketing the cue ball or knocking the cue ball off the table; the cue ball is placed by the incoming shooter anywhere the they choose above the head string (also known as "in the kitchen"). Because scratching is a foul, Player B has the option of either taking the shot themselves or of making Player A take the shot. If Player A commits a second consecutive foul then Player B is awarded ball in hand and can then place the cue ball anywhere they wish on the table. If Player B exercises their option and takes the shot themselves and then Player B commits a foul then Player A gets Ball In Hand and player B's fouls are erased.
If a ball is pocketed and there is a foul, the object ball shall be returned to the table on the foot spot only if it is either the nine ball or the last ball on the table before the nine ball. (This is termed "spotting one before the money".) For example: if Player A shoots at and pockets the seven ball and the cue ball scratches (goes into a pocket or leaves the table) and the eight ball is no longer on the table then the seven ball shall be spotted on the foot spot and the incoming Player B gets cue ball in hand behind the head string. Because a scratch is a foul, Player B has the option of either taking the shot on the spotted seven ball or of making Player A shoot. If Player B makes Player A shoot and Player A commits a second consecutive foul then Player B gets Ball In Hand and is allowed to place the cue ball anywhere on the table they wish. If Player B takes the shot Player A's foul is erased and if Player B shoots and fouls, then Player A is awarded Ball In Hand and player B's foul is erased.
If Player A fouls by either pocketing the cue ball or knocking it off the table and the lowest numbered ball that is one before the nine is behind the head string that lowest numbered ball shall be spotted on the foot spot and the cue ball shall be placed anywhere behind the head string the incoming shooter,Player B wishes. Again Player B has the option of either taking the shot themselves or making Player A take the shot and the rules stated before apply.
I simply split this up in paragraphs.
Two Foul Ball in Hand Nine Ball
The shooting player (Player A) must strike the lowest numbered ball on the table first with the cue ball, driving either an object ball or the cue ball into a rail in order for the shot to be considered legal.
If a foul is committed by Player A, the incoming player (Player B) has the option of either taking the shot himself or having Player A shoot the shot. (Technically by "rolling out" Player A has intentionally committed a foul.)
If Player B chooses to have Player A shoot then on the next shot Player A executes a legal shot and does not commit a second consecutive foul his foul is erased. If Player A fouls then Player B is awarded ball in hand. (Hence the name of the rules being "Two Foul Ball in Hand.")
Player A's fouls are also erased with the awarding of ball in hand to Player B. Unlike One Foul Ball in Hand it is not possible to lose the game through committing three consecutive fouls.
If Player B chooses to shoot after Player A's first foul, then player A's inning is over and Player A's foul is erased and it does not count against him on his next shot.
If after accepting the Roll Out Player B shoots and fouls, then Player A is awarded Ball In Hand and player B's foul is erased. (The reason for this rule is to avoid having both players repeatedly roll out without attempting to strike the lowest numbered object ball, thereby stalemating the game.)
If Player A commits a scratching foul: either pocketing the cue ball or knocking the cue ball off the table; the cue ball is placed by the incoming shooter anywhere the they choose above the head string (also known as "in the kitchen"). Because scratching is a foul, Player B has the option of either taking the shot themselves or of making Player A take the shot.
If Player A commits a second consecutive foul then Player B is awarded ball in hand and can then place the cue ball anywhere they wish on the table. If Player B exercises their option and takes the shot themselves and then Player B commits a foul then Player A gets Ball In Hand and player B's fouls are erased.
If a ball is pocketed and there is a foul, the object ball shall be returned to the table on the foot spot only if it is either the nine ball or the last ball on the table before the nine ball. This is termed "spotting one before the money". For example: if Player A shoots at and pockets the seven ball and the cue ball scratches (goes into a pocket or leaves the table) and the eight ball is no longer on the table then the seven ball shall be spotted on the foot spot and the incoming Player B gets cue ball in hand behind the head string.
Because a scratch is a foul, Player B has the option of either taking the shot on the spotted seven ball or of making Player A shoot.
If Player B makes Player A shoot and Player A commits a second consecutive foul then Player B gets Ball In Hand and is allowed to place the cue ball anywhere on the table they wish.
If Player B takes the shot Player A's foul is erased and if Player B shoots and fouls, then Player A is awarded Ball In Hand and player B's foul is erased.
If Player A fouls by either pocketing the cue ball or knocking it off the table and the lowest numbered ball that is one before the nine is behind the head string that lowest numbered ball shall be spotted on the foot spot and the cue ball shall be placed anywhere behind the head string the incoming shooter,Player B wishes.
Again Player B has the option of either taking the shot themselves or making Player A take the shot and the rules stated before apply.
Two Foul Ball in Hand Nine Ball
The shooting player (Player A) must strike the lowest numbered ball on the table first with the cue ball, driving either an object ball or the cue ball into a rail in order for the shot to be considered legal.
If a foul is committed by Player A, the incoming player (Player B) has the option of either taking the shot himself or having Player A shoot the shot. (Technically by "rolling out" Player A has intentionally committed a foul.)
If Player B chooses to have Player A shoot then on the next shot Player A executes a legal shot and does not commit a second consecutive foul his foul is erased. If Player A fouls then Player B is awarded ball in hand. (Hence the name of the rules being "Two Foul Ball in Hand.")
Player A's fouls are also erased with the awarding of ball in hand to Player B. Unlike One Foul Ball in Hand it is not possible to lose the game through committing three consecutive fouls.
If Player B chooses to shoot after Player A's first foul, then player A's inning is over and Player A's foul is erased and it does not count against him on his next shot.
If after accepting the Roll Out Player B shoots and fouls, then Player A is awarded Ball In Hand and player B's foul is erased. (The reason for this rule is to avoid having both players repeatedly roll out without attempting to strike the lowest numbered object ball, thereby stalemating the game.)
If Player A commits a scratching foul: either pocketing the cue ball or knocking the cue ball off the table; the cue ball is placed by the incoming shooter anywhere the they choose above the head string (also known as "in the kitchen"). Because scratching is a foul, Player B has the option of either taking the shot themselves or of making Player A take the shot.
If Player A commits a second consecutive foul then Player B is awarded ball in hand and can then place the cue ball anywhere they wish on the table. If Player B exercises their option and takes the shot themselves and then Player B commits a foul then Player A gets Ball In Hand and player B's fouls are erased.
If a ball is pocketed and there is a foul, the object ball shall be returned to the table on the foot spot only if it is either the nine ball or the last ball on the table before the nine ball. This is termed "spotting one before the money". For example: if Player A shoots at and pockets the seven ball and the cue ball scratches (goes into a pocket or leaves the table) and the eight ball is no longer on the table then the seven ball shall be spotted on the foot spot and the incoming Player B gets cue ball in hand behind the head string.
Because a scratch is a foul, Player B has the option of either taking the shot on the spotted seven ball or of making Player A shoot.
If Player B makes Player A shoot and Player A commits a second consecutive foul then Player B gets Ball In Hand and is allowed to place the cue ball anywhere on the table they wish.
If Player B takes the shot Player A's foul is erased and if Player B shoots and fouls, then Player A is awarded Ball In Hand and player B's foul is erased.
If Player A fouls by either pocketing the cue ball or knocking it off the table and the lowest numbered ball that is one before the nine is behind the head string that lowest numbered ball shall be spotted on the foot spot and the cue ball shall be placed anywhere behind the head string the incoming shooter,Player B wishes.
Again Player B has the option of either taking the shot themselves or making Player A take the shot and the rules stated before apply.
These rules are sorta close but not the way we played it, if I push and you take and foul, I don't get ball in hand,
only two fouls by the same shooter ever gives ball in hand.
David Harcrow
Back in the day (unless otherwise agreed upon) it was a Gentleman's understanding that you never repushed a players roll out, Or you would be needing a lawyer, because you would get hit Dead in the Mouth!
David Harcrow
In baltimore we always played 2 foul ball in hand this way,if a player fouls or pushes,then who ever shoots next fouls then its ball in hand,TWO FOUL BALL IN HAND!doesnt have to be two fouls by the same player to receive ball in hand.
Well I guess Two Shot Roll Out has been played alittle different all across the country over the years, as long as we do not allow repushes after a roll out and everyone is playing by the same rules during the tournament, it will all be good, and exciting with lots of different strategy's being played by all the players.
David Harcrow
Excellent point old timer!this is going to be a awesom tournament,hopefully it will get bigger and bigger and last for as long as pool does!
David this is the main way that "push out" or "roll out" pool was played by the top players. Two fouls in a row by the SAME player was BIH. And on a push you either had to shoot or pass it back. No re-push was allowed! Once you shoot after a push out, the first player is off his foul. This way every situation is brand new, not affected by the last push out. I guarantee you this is the way your brother played the game.
All balls re-spot on a scratch and the incoming player has BIH behind the line. Unless it is the second foul in a row, then it is BIH anywhere. On a scratch, after spotting the balls, the incoming player can pass the shot back to the guy who fouled, who's on one now. If the lowest numbered ball is behind the line it spots up. Balls are spotted with the lowest numbered balls first.
Hope this helps. I'd love to go down there next month but the WSOP may get in the way. :wink:
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