An Unfortunate Incident Involving J&D (Jim Lee) Cues

An Unfortunate Business Deal Involving Jim Lee (J&D Custom Cues)

Hello,
while I am not a highly regular poster to AZ, I have been involved in various purchases, sales, and raffles—all successful until now. I have acknowledged publicly when the deals have gone especially well. Now I find myself in a dilemma similar to many other members recently on AZ—a deal has gone sour involving an otherwise apparently very well respected cuemaker/refinisher serving the AZ community. I have chosen, however, to reveal the identity of the cuemaker due to the blatantly poor business practices the cuemaker has engaged in during the course of our business proceedings.

On November 3rd, 2010 (last November!) I sent an eight-point ebony and BEM cue to Jim Lee for refinishing and a rewrap. The cost was $175 total (return postage was to be included in the cost) and Jim cashed my personal check for the total within a few days of receiving it on the 8th of November.

We worked out the details of leather choice over the next couple of weeks (obviously I have copies in my mailbox of all correspondence) and on December 17th I was notified that the 3rd coat of clear was being applied and the wrap was chosen. Pictures of the cue were sent along with the emails at this time and everything appeared to be going smoothly. Every indication at this point appeared to be that the cue would be on its way shortly.

Now is when things started to changed, subtly at first, so it took me awhile before I started to worry things didn’t quite seem as right as I thought they were.

I started to have to initiate all conversation. No information was forthcoming unless I emailed and asked for info.

By the end of January, after sending a PM stating, “Any issues with this cue? Now I am beginning to get worried”, I was notified that “All is fine my friend, just been super swamped with walk ins and repairs, and your rings are little boogers, but I will not let them win!”

His excuse at this point continued to be that he was having trouble with the rings. Yes, rings can create a problem on a cue—they can raise or cause bubbling of the finish, etc. , but this was when things started to get a little unbelievable.

Now I had to practically force communication with him: On Feb. 16, 2011 I sent him this message (I was beginning question whether he actually had possession of my cue by this time or whether it was still in serviceable condition):

“Hello,
Jim, please let me know the condition of my cue at this time. If you are unable to service the cue, please keep the $175 and just send me the cue back so I can get it service locally . . . etc., etc. I just want my cue back, etc., etc. . . ”

Again, his response was to delay.

On March 1st his reply to my need to know a finish date was to delay again by saying it was oh so close to completion and he would have it done within a week.

On March 17th my patience had run out and I sent this PM:

“Hello,
Please send my cue back immediately. At this point, all services have been prepaid and there is no question of a craftsman’s lien or any such thing on your part. Should I not receive a legitimate tracking number by Monday, March 21st, I will consider the cue stolen property and proceed from there. [ . . .].” , etc., etc.

His response was that he had an emergency (sorry, all of our correspondence was business related and I have no idea about the nature of this emergency, and as a customer have no real need to know about it—it’s not my business) and he stated he had no intention of returning the cue until he was finished with it. However, Jim also mentioned that the “emergency” had ended and he would be getting back to the shop shortly.

I stand by the statements in my PM—it’s now theft. He has no legal right to maintain possession of my cue against my clear directives to have the cue, no matter what the condition, returned to me.

Ok, so given the “emergency”, and knowing that at this point I could only hope he would remain true to his word, on March 21st I wrote this PM to Jim Lee:

“Hello,
At this point, this item has risen to the top of my to-do list—normally reserved for far more important things. If you can’t complete the job in 2-3 weeks, or something keeps you from completing the job, send it back. I live in Wisconsin—there is an established cuemaker in every county in the state. You’ve managed to totally confuse at least half a dozen small business people and another half dozen friends and acquaintances with the delay. We’ve imagined every scenario possible and impossible. Three weeks is certainly fair as far as I’m concerned—and pretty much my limit. That that point I will consider the cue a total loss and take it from there—I’ll have nothing to lose.”

At that point I saw no purpose to pursue this any further through normal communication channels—from here I am left with only legal recourses—report the theft to the Indiana Police and set up a small claims hearing in Gary, Indiana when I go on vacation to central Indiana this summer. Since the claims appeal will be in Indiana, it will be near impossible for Jim Lee, who lives in Indiana, to avoid the court appearance or whatever pre-trial meetings are required. I am only a few hours away from Gary and might rather enjoy the legal proceedings as a diversionary activity to get me away from my work-a-day world this summer.

The money involved along with the value of the cue (retail was about $750 when originally purchased—probably $450 or so on the used market and the $175 I sent Jim for the refinish and rewrap) isn’t the real issue for me—I only wish this were the biggest worry I have to deal with in my life. I believe if you never take chances and show blind trust towards others, you may never be taken, but then again you will never chance upon all the good deals and worthwhile situations that I have come across in my lifetime as a result of putting your trust in others who you may not be totally familiar with. And you gotta keep things in perspective. I’ll be a lot sadder and more depressed when I eventually lose my 22 year old cat (Timmy-Tam Tabammerrammer Tim-Tam Jam Cat) than I could ever be because I lost this cue.


Amazingly, on 4-21-2011, two weeks ago from today, I received this email from Jim Lee—and if I recall correctly, other than his original emails soliciting prompt pre-payment for the services, this was the only email I received from Jim without having to prompt him for info concerning the cue’s condition:

Randy,

I am wrapping your cue tomorrow and your cue Will ship out 1st thing Monday morning. It has been a long jounrney and I appreciate your patience.
The cue is looking better than new and I know you will be pleased.
Take care,
Jim Lee

So, it’s two weeks later and no cue and no more info concerning the transaction. My plan is now to proceed with legal and court action, at my leisure.

Here’s my question: Since mistakes do happen, wouldn’t the appropriate response be to make good on the mistake “in kind”? He is a cuemaker for goshsakes. After 20 years in the business, this can’t be the first major mistake he’s made. Wouldn’t offering to make good on the error be more cost effective than suffering the potential loss of future income due to the consequences of a posting like this?

After fixing, reconditioning, and re-selling vintage Singer sewing machines as a money making hobby for the last 18 years, I can say from experience that it is almost always possible to make good in kind on a simple human mistake, but almost impossible to make good in kind due to poor business practices. It’s near impossible to recover lost profits or opportunity cost due to a business’s lost goodwill.

So I’ve been on both sides now: I’ve acknowledged in postings the superior treatment I’ve received from cuemakers on AZ, and have also shown enough guts to report publicly to the AZ community on a cuemaker whose business practices would get a failing grade from just about any customer with normal business expectations.

As soon as I discussed the last email with a co-worker, he said, “Well, maybe now you will get your cue.” I said, “I’ll believe it when I see it.” Well, I haven’t seen it. I’m as baffled as I was 4 or 5 months ago when I realized things appeared headed downhill. Your guess is as good as mine. This is definitely the strangest business transaction I have ever engaged myself in. I now feel it’s my obligation, regardless of whether I ever receive my cue back again or not, to inform other AZB’ers of this transaction and the difficulties I have experienced in trying to retake possession of a cue I own and can no longer shoot pool with.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this posting.

Randy
a.k.a. Slim Limpy
May 8, 2011

P.S.: I am posting this before going to work on Monday, so I may not be able to respond to any comments, feedback, or fallout, whichever the case may be, until I return home in the middle afternoon.

I read this whole thing with coffee this morning. Whew!!! :D

Yep you have a problem. This is a great reason why to keep the work local,,but seems you have done business before with out a problem.

E-mails are OK when going well,,but have you tried the phone?? I see "mia" has posted a link to another thread where someone else is in the same boat as you. With same person. Not a good sign. Other than you are correct.

Is there anyone on here,,from the area of this guy,,and could go see what is going on with him?? Just a thought.

Whats the stick worth that he has??
 
Similar situations in the past involving Lee had other cue makers who are close to him vouching for him and possibly doing some of the work he did not know how to do. Maybe they will read this latest incident and contact him or speak for him.
 
Jim Lee put a super real lizard wrap on my Troy Downey. One week service, e-mailed me with tracking number perfect dealings with the man. I though at one time on this forum someone posted that he was having medical problems? Oh well.
 
Similar situations in the past involving Lee had other cue makers who are close to him vouching for him and possibly doing some of the work he did not know how to do. Maybe they will read this latest incident and contact him or speak for him.

I'mm not saying he does or doesn't, but I just spoke with someone who said Jim's not been well for some time now. I don't know how credible it is, but I hope he get's back to work soon and gets this stuff taken care of.
 
Jim was very sick a year or 1 1/2 years ago. I had some cues being worked on by him and it took awhile longer than normal but they all got done and were beautiful after Jim got through with them.

I know he is an honorable person and great cue maker and hope that this gets straightened out. I suspect that illness may again be a factor.

Ron
 
I'mm not saying he does or doesn't, but I just spoke with someone who said Jim's not been well for some time now. I don't know how credible it is, but I hope he get's back to work soon and gets this stuff taken care of.

He just posted this morning in the cue machinery section selling cork wrap blanks. When I read this kind of stuff it just burns me up. Everyone has health issues once in a while but that's no excuse for putting your head in the sand and ignoring your commitments. The problem is not going away. If he's to sick to finish the job just send the man's cue back with a full refund. Anything less is not just bad business practices but criminal.

Dick
 
He just posted this morning in the cue machinery section selling cork wrap blanks. When I read this kind of stuff it just burns me up. Everyone has health issues once in a while but that's no excuse for putting your head in the sand and ignoring your commitments. The problem is not going away. If he's to sick to finish the job just send the man's cue back with a full refund. Anything less is not just bad business practices but criminal.

Dick

I agree. I've seen correspondance from Jim to another individual since my last post that indicates he is well enough and is capable of doing said work. I wasn't giving him any slack. Just hoping he wasn't avoiding his obligations willingfully... sounds like that may be the case.
 
I agree. I've seen correspondance from Jim to another individual since my last post that indicates he is well enough and is capable of doing said work. I wasn't giving him any slack. Just hoping he wasn't avoiding his obligations willingfully... sounds like that may be the case.

Did you notice they were signed:

"Thank You,
Michelle
"
 
The last three bumps to the cork wrap thread were signed Michele.

Thanks,
Theresa. Oooops, I meant Terry.

blue hog this isn't directed at you just quoting your post because it regarded the signing of the email. i read these threads and it kills me. i don't care who's signing off on his email or thread bumps. if you have someone doing that, then you have someone who can answer these peoples questions about their merchandise. or send the items and refunds out. to let these people twist in the wind and lie to them makes you a SCUMBAG. some of the posts in this thread relate to people waiting to get items from the end of last year.
and the excuses have piled up like they always do. really busy, family stuff, emergency, now there are people saying he's sick.
it's the same progression every time. next will usually be him or someone else defending him, then he will still not follow through then the entire forum will bash the cue mangler in question. if you want to see how this plays out do a search for eddie wheat or kevin varney.
it really makes me sick. because it makes the good cue makers all look suspect. i am sorry but i had to get that out.
 
No problem and you are 100% correct.
At the very least, if you, or someone who is advertising the wraps for sale
are well enuff to answer the emails for sale items, package them and send them out, then you should be able to answer the emails from customers who
have cues in your possession.

Its almost as if , We have your money, its already spent, you go to the bottom of the list. There is a poster who's sig line goes something like this:

If you want a job done poorly, pay for it in full up front.

I understand that a guy has to make a living. And its always the same excuses that you hear almost every time.
If you're not up to the task, don't accept peoples money and lie to them. There are too many other repair men/makers out there who don't act like this and could use the money too. I can think of at least 8 off the top of my head that won't mess about.
 
Last edited:
Morning bump for some more information, especially from anyone who is friends with Jim and maybe knows what is going on.
 
The new date doesn't sound very well defined! When it is completed could be a very long time from now.

Well I hope it all turns out good for both of you!

--Jeff


Hello,

Because I was asked directly by Bamacues in the last posting for an update, I feel it is time for me to bring this posting up to date. I have purposefully not bumped this post because I don’t want to artificially keep this post on the front page if it isn’t justified.

While I have no information to relate concerning the cue in the posting Bamacues linked to in his last posting, I have received a PM from Jim Lee concerning my cue.

He assured me my cue was still being worked on, in good condition, and would be delivered upon completion
. He stated it has obviously taken more time, effort, and materials than anticipated. He apologized for the inconvenience this is causing me.

I really don’t know how to respond. Obviously, I want my cue back. And my original offers still stand. If the work required cannot be properly performed due to whatever reasons: materials, machinery, setup, whatever, please just send the cue back in whatever condition it is in, and I will try and seek out a local cuemaker to make it right. I know many of the cuemakers in my local area and I am certain one of them would do me the favor of working on this cue—mainly because I like to yap with them about stuff other than pool.

I do feel an obligation to fellow AZB’ers to inform them of the outcome of this situation (and will continue to do so when appropriate); however, I pretty much said all I can say of significance in my original posting and don’t want to bump this for inappropriate reasons. I’m sure most of you understand how much personal turmoil I went through in posting this due to the adverse effects a posting like this might have on someone’s livelihood, but I simply have to continue to respond and react to this situation in terms of what is actually is for me--and that is a business transaction involving my personal property and not a personal attack on someone who I have no knowledge of on a personal level.


Randy
(Slim Limpy)
 
I used to hear from Jim all the time, but my last PM from him was just a few weeks ago and it was months before that since my last one. Not sure if he's busy or health or what but I've been concerned too. My cue was started in November and not sure where I fall on the pecking order.

I can say Jim is not a "take your money all at once" type of guy when it comes to building cues. I think he asked me for a $250 deposit years ago when he built one for me and it would send out when I paid the rest off (or when he told me it was done I paid the rest off). Waiting on my Titlist Tribute now that I asked for. I just assumed his health went downhill again as I know he had one episode that postponed the start of my cue I know. JMHO. I can say I've talked to him for hours upon hours on the phone and he's a great guy, I think he might be swamped. Not sure though and not taking sides at all.
 
Hello,

Because I was asked directly by Bamacues in the last posting for an update, I feel it is time for me to bring this posting up to date. I have purposefully not bumped this post because I don’t want to artificially keep this post on the front page if it isn’t justified.

While I have no information to relate concerning the cue in the posting Bamacues linked to in his last posting, I have received a PM from Jim Lee concerning my cue.

He assured me my cue was still being worked on, in good condition, and would be delivered upon completion. He stated it has obviously taken more time, effort, and materials than anticipated. He apologized for the inconvenience this is causing me.

I really don’t know how to respond. Obviously, I want my cue back. And my original offers still stand. If the work required cannot be properly performed due to whatever reasons: materials, machinery, setup, whatever, please just send the cue back in whatever condition it is in, and I will try and seek out a local cuemaker to make it right. I know many of the cuemakers in my local area and I am certain one of them would do me the favor of working on this cue—mainly because I like to yap with them about stuff other than pool.

I do feel an obligation to fellow AZB’ers to inform them of the outcome of this situation (and will continue to do so when appropriate); however, I pretty much said all I can say of significance in my original posting and don’t want to bump this for inappropriate reasons. I’m sure most of you understand how much personal turmoil I went through in posting this due to the adverse effects a posting like this might have on someone’s livelihood, but I simply have to continue to respond and react to this situation in terms of what is actually is for me--and that is a business transaction involving my personal property and not a personal attack on someone who I have no knowledge of on a personal level.


Randy
(Slim Limpy)

You have handled yourself like a true gentleman on this issue and you seem to be a class act. I wish you the best in this situation and all your future dealings. Good luck and please keep us updated.
 
I'll second that Billy. Randy handled the situation very well.
I'd also like to add that I have done a couple of small deals with Jim for some leather wraps. He even thru in a couple of extras. He is a nice guy who does quality work in both his cues and repairs.

Having health issues is a heavy row to hoe and a person is entitled to make a decent living in the way they know how.

Communication is Key when owning a business and leaving people in the dark
is not the way to go. I hope Jim is doing ok and will be up to his normal self soon.
 
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