Ralf Forfeits!???

I have a very good friend who was a ref during the time MJ was playing. He told me on several occasions "people pay to see him play. If we called every foul he committed he'd be out of the game, and that's not what we're here for.".

Somewhat understandable, but while that's unfair too, I was talking about the refs whistling fouls on other people who came near Jordan. It was ridiculous. Nobody else, from Bird, to Kareem, to Dr J, to Pistol Pete, to the Iceman....none of those guys got calls even remotely like MJ did.

Personally I blame David Stern, but that is a whole 'nother argument. :grin:
 
I don't know Ralf, but I know that he is a professional. Although he called before the scheduled time in hopes his match could be delayed, he knew in all probability he would forfeit. He can deal with that because he truly is professional.

As far as Corey, he's a pro too and that's why he made the decision he made. Once you're pumped up and ready for a match, it would not be easy to sit there for almost 3 hours to wait for your opponent. It could put him at a disadvantage. He made that decision on a professional basis. It's a business decision. His job is to do well in tournaments.

Chris

Tate....thx for the truth from Ralphs point of view.
 
As I said before-rules are rules.

Unless there was a delay of game on good reason rule, then Corey would have broken the rules by granting a delay. Corey followed the rules, and is now a bad guy?

For me, here is how it would have gone:

Ref: Hey, xxx is gonna be late, you wanna delay the game?

Me: Whats the rule about being on time and what is the rule about delaying a game?

Ref: There is no rule about delay of game, only about not being on time is a loss of the match,

Me: You the ref, enforce the rules as stated.

There will be no professional pool until professioal behavior is required of all the players.
 
Rules are rules... hmmmm...

When I read this whole thread, my first inclination was what Lou said... I've thought about it a bit as the day has worn on... Note - I'm currently writing a policy memo to my staff on timeliness.

I think (for me) that I'd be comfortable with whatever the stated policy/rule was that was explained at the player's meeting prior to the tournament. While we think of the star treatment, any extenuating circumstance decision should be available to all.

So, at the end of the day, State whatever the rule of law will be. Whether it's forfeit a game every 5 minutes; reschedule a match (as long as the tournament overall time allows); or simply forfeit.

I may not like decisions, but if they've been explained to me and their basis, I can live with it.

Finally... y'all just had to bring up Jordan... I still scream at the TV everytime I see him through that utah player aside and sink the shot to clinch the series. What utter crap <GRIN>.
 
If it was only a couple minutes, and he really was in an accident, they should let him play.

I agree, if he can prove he was in a wreck then I say postpone the match if he is just minutes late. It was a petty move by Deuel if you ask me.

It's an interesting situation... Ralph has car accident, is physically fine, but stuck doing police reports, paperwork, etc. Tournament Director asks Deuel if he'd like to play at 3pm to accommodate Ralph's faultless situation. Corey says nope, playing at 12:30. Ralph didn't get there by 12:45, forfeited match.

So... question: Is Corey scared of Ralph and took this opportunity bypass the match? Or is this nothing personal, and just the way of playing in a tournament... a big jelly roll through an entire match?

Do you think Ralph would've moved the match for Corey?

If Corey was playing someone considerably less threatening, do you think he would've moved it?

Not sure Ralph would have waited or not, but I would have waited. Its not like Ralph was drunk or high and missed his time and being in something you more than likely didnt have any control over. Making him forfeit over 15 minutes just wouldnt feel right to me.
 
From what little I know of Ralf, I agree he would have waited. He seems like a very level headed guy - fair and a real sportsman. The more I see him, the more I admire and respect him.

Chris
 
The Sun Shines On Everyone.

Ralf is one of my favorite players. He exudes class at every opportunity and is a professional in the truest sense of the word.

There are many sympathetic and practical reasons for a promoter or tournament director might encourage them to make exceptions to the existing rules about players being late for matches. A few of them are listed below. Some enlist our sympathies and empathy better than others.

A wreck caused by another person.
A wreck caused by the player.
A speeding ticket by the cab driver.
A missed flight.
A changed playing time and the player not informed.
A sick child.
An ailing parent.
A player with food poisoning.
An alarm clock that didn't work.
An important fan stopped the player to chat as he was returning to the tournament room.
The player fell in the bath tub and injured his leg and went to the hospital to have xrays taken.
A fire in the hotel caused the player to suffer smoke inhalation and the after care took longer than it was supposed to take.
A player's vehicle broke down and he is on the way but will be a little late.

The bottom line is the rules are the rules.

Either the rules are followed or people are allowed to make decisions based upon their judgement calls.

Onus is the word that is best defined by the following: Burden, necessity, obligation, or responsibility, especially a distasteful one. This is the word that best describes what a tournament director does when he put the responsibility of changing the rules on another player. This is a completely unfair thing to do. Corey should not have been asked if he wanted to wait for Ralf to return. It puts him in a difficult situation that he should never be in. Rules are there for a reason and they should always be followed, difficult as they sometimes can be.

When rules are not followed, (bent, made exeption of, changed etc) they put everyone in difficult situations, including the tournament directors, promoters, players, etc. Bending rules and making exceptions can

In my opinion, there can be no exceptions, as the exceptions, while they may be well-meaning and even fair-minded, open the opportunity for additional problems, causing discontent across the board, corruption, and mistakes in judgement.

I'm certainly not saying that there was any corruption as I'm sure Ralf would have no part of such a thing as corruption nor am I insinuating that the tournament director or promoters involve themselves in such things.

As this thread indicates, there are people on both sides of the fence, feeling one way or the other. This is what can happen when rules are bent, changed or exceptions made. You can't please all of the people all of the time and having the nerve to make an exception of a rule only breeds contempt.

The biggest offense in this situation is putting Corey Deuel into a position where he has to make a decision that he shouldn't be making in the first place. No player should have to make a decision, especially about breaking the rules that he has promised to adhere to.

And please let's not talk about the lowly amateur, unknown player or unpopular player whose word holds "no weight" with the decision makers.

The Sun Shines On Everyone.
 
Forfeits

Tournament Director was wrong, he should never had asked Corey to wait. Let's understand one thing for any type of tournament the TD is to run the tournament. Both people there they play. One missing, the TD waits the predetermined time and then calls forfeit. There is no excuses. PERIOD.
 
I vaguely remember about the a thing that happened in the olympics more than 20 years ago.USA`s 200 meter sprinter could not be at the starting blocks on time because the public transportaion Bus he was travelling in was caught in a traffic jam.The 200 meter race did not wait for this dude and the others ran without this dude.:cool:



Time & Tide wait for NONE.Wheels of chariot roll on.Life goes on.:cool:
 
I love the was people just like to ignore the rules of tourney play. This is my biggest pet peeve about local tourneys, but understand, somewhat, why a local room would wait for someone. They are a business and need every penny they can get.

I've been there ready and had my opponent call and say he would be there in 5 minutes. Pisses me off, but it is a local type tourney.

On the pro level, its all about rules. That is the only fair way to treat everyone the same way.

Sometimes in life, things just don't go your way and you just have to suck it up.

As I wrote, you don't like the rules change them or live my them.

Also, unless there is a rule for delay of game, you are breaking the rules and as such is unsportsmanlike conduct, no matter how good your intentions were.

I'd make one hell of a TD.
 
Ralf is one of my favorite players. He exudes class at every opportunity and is a professional in the truest sense of the word.

There are many sympathetic and practical reasons for a promoter or tournament director might encourage them to make exceptions to the existing rules about players being late for matches. A few of them are listed below. Some enlist our sympathies and empathy better than others.

A wreck caused by another person.
A wreck caused by the player.
A speeding ticket by the cab driver.
A missed flight.
A changed playing time and the player not informed.
A sick child.
An ailing parent.
A player with food poisoning.
An alarm clock that didn't work.
An important fan stopped the player to chat as he was returning to the tournament room.
The player fell in the bath tub and injured his leg and went to the hospital to have xrays taken.
A fire in the hotel caused the player to suffer smoke inhalation and the after care took longer than it was supposed to take.
A player's vehicle broke down and he is on the way but will be a little late.

The bottom line is the rules are the rules.

Either the rules are followed or people are allowed to make decisions based upon their judgement calls.

Onus is the word that is best defined by the following: Burden, necessity, obligation, or responsibility, especially a distasteful one. This is the word that best describes what a tournament director does when he put the responsibility of changing the rules on another player. This is a completely unfair thing to do. Corey should not have been asked if he wanted to wait for Ralf to return. It puts him in a difficult situation that he should never be in. Rules are there for a reason and they should always be followed, difficult as they sometimes can be.

When rules are not followed, (bent, made exeption of, changed etc) they put everyone in difficult situations, including the tournament directors, promoters, players, etc. Bending rules and making exceptions can

In my opinion, there can be no exceptions, as the exceptions, while they may be well-meaning and even fair-minded, open the opportunity for additional problems, causing discontent across the board, corruption, and mistakes in judgement.

I'm certainly not saying that there was any corruption as I'm sure Ralf would have no part of such a thing as corruption nor am I insinuating that the tournament director or promoters involve themselves in such things.

As this thread indicates, there are people on both sides of the fence, feeling one way or the other. This is what can happen when rules are bent, changed or exceptions made. You can't please all of the people all of the time and having the nerve to make an exception of a rule only breeds contempt.

The biggest offense in this situation is putting Corey Deuel into a position where he has to make a decision that he shouldn't be making in the first place. No player should have to make a decision, especially about breaking the rules that he has promised to adhere to.

And please let's not talk about the lowly amateur, unknown player or unpopular player whose word holds "no weight" with the decision makers.

The Sun Shines On Everyone.

Real good Joey A. Yeah how about the simple concept of "Rules are Rules" I'm gonna bet the next time,ole RS stays In the hotel next time.Don't you think? CD was there where he should have been. Sorry bout your bad luck though RS.Case closed. JB
 
From what little I know of Ralf, I agree he would have waited. He seems like a very level headed guy - fair and a real sportsman. The more I see him, the more I admire and respect him.

Chris

Thats not his choice, he's a player not a TD.
 
If I never hear pool compared to golf ever again it will be to soon. One of the reasons pro pool in the U.S. hasnt moved forward in 30 years is because its been trying to be like golf.

You'll have to explain this one to me..and the golfer who placed 27th at the Masters that cashed 140k and drove back to his mansion *****ing and whining that he is ranked 100th in the world, never won a tournament on the PGA and is still filthy rich.....I am quite sure you know what Pool needs more then I being in the trenches with all the pros like you are...but I have to disagree with this statement.
 
And please let's not talk about the lowly amateur, unknown player or unpopular player whose word holds "no weight" with the decision makers.

Oh, you mean the ones that "nobody" ever wants to see on the stream table ;)? Yeah, those that we call underdogs and seem to always catch ourselves pulling for to win over the seasoned pro? The ones that have to pay the same entry fee as the "higher profile" players? The ones that don't get things paid for them through sponsorships, or ever get an appearance fee? The lowly players that no one SUCKS UP to? That's the ones you're referring to, right?

I guess I'm "nobody". I likes me an underdog. I like to watch them (even on the stream table) tradin' punches with the big boys, wishing I was there in their shoes.

God bless the "little guy"!!!

Maniac
 
You'll have to explain this one to me..and the golfer who placed 27th at the Masters that cashed 140k and drove back to his mansion *****ing and whining that he is ranked 100th in the world, never won a tournament on the PGA and is still filthy rich.....I am quite sure you know what Pool needs more then I being in the trenches with all the pros like you are...but I have to disagree with this statement.

His pool/golf statement was meant to be interpreted fluidly, I think.
 
Real good Joey A. Yeah how about the simple concept of "Rules are Rules" I'm gonna bet the next time,ole RS stays In the hotel next time.Don't you think? CD was there where he should have been. Sorry bout your bad luck though RS.Case closed. JB

Thanks John. It's nice to see a professional players point of view in these discussions!

JoeyA
 
Ralf is one of my favorite players. He exudes class at every opportunity and is a professional in the truest sense of the word.

There are many sympathetic and practical reasons for a promoter or tournament director might encourage them to make exceptions to the existing rules about players being late for matches. A few of them are listed below. Some enlist our sympathies and empathy better than others.

A wreck caused by another person.
A wreck caused by the player.
A speeding ticket by the cab driver.
A missed flight.
A changed playing time and the player not informed.
A sick child.
An ailing parent.
A player with food poisoning.
An alarm clock that didn't work.
An important fan stopped the player to chat as he was returning to the tournament room.
The player fell in the bath tub and injured his leg and went to the hospital to have xrays taken.
A fire in the hotel caused the player to suffer smoke inhalation and the after care took longer than it was supposed to take.
A player's vehicle broke down and he is on the way but will be a little late.

The bottom line is the rules are the rules.

Either the rules are followed or people are allowed to make decisions based upon their judgement calls.

Onus is the word that is best defined by the following: Burden, necessity, obligation, or responsibility, especially a distasteful one. This is the word that best describes what a tournament director does when he put the responsibility of changing the rules on another player. This is a completely unfair thing to do. Corey should not have been asked if he wanted to wait for Ralf to return. It puts him in a difficult situation that he should never be in. Rules are there for a reason and they should always be followed, difficult as they sometimes can be.

When rules are not followed, (bent, made exeption of, changed etc) they put everyone in difficult situations, including the tournament directors, promoters, players, etc. Bending rules and making exceptions can

In my opinion, there can be no exceptions, as the exceptions, while they may be well-meaning and even fair-minded, open the opportunity for additional problems, causing discontent across the board, corruption, and mistakes in judgement.

I'm certainly not saying that there was any corruption as I'm sure Ralf would have no part of such a thing as corruption nor am I insinuating that the tournament director or promoters involve themselves in such things.

As this thread indicates, there are people on both sides of the fence, feeling one way or the other. This is what can happen when rules are bent, changed or exceptions made. You can't please all of the people all of the time and having the nerve to make an exception of a rule only breeds contempt.

The biggest offense in this situation is putting Corey Deuel into a position where he has to make a decision that he shouldn't be making in the first place. No player should have to make a decision, especially about breaking the rules that he has promised to adhere to.

And please let's not talk about the lowly amateur, unknown player or unpopular player whose word holds "no weight" with the decision makers.

The Sun Shines On Everyone.

Very nice post, JoeyA.

I agree Corey should not had been asked to make a decision. This was a 'special' situation TD had never faced or even expected and there wasn't exactly had a lot of time to evaluate calmy at the same time feeling bad and worrying about Ralf.

It will be written into CSI's policy now that any player not at the match table by their pre assigned time will forfeit their match. No special circumstance will be subject for reassignment.

I like to further add please, do not fault or blame Corey - he did nothing wrong or out of line.

S.G.
 
Plus million to every comment that said that Corey shouldn't have been asked.

In fact, I think Corey should have answered with: "you shouldn't ask me."
 
It will be written into CSI's policy now that any player not at the match table by their pre assigned time will forfeit their match. No special circumstance will be subject for reassignment.

Kudos to CSI for making this policy. Hopefully, other tournaments across the country will follow suit!!!

NO gray areas is the answer.

Maniac
 
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