World Record: 526 balls
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
Where did you ever get your information for that last statement?
I feel compelled to throw another name in here, Jay.
I played on one of his tables....Frank Taberski...
reminds me of JA's game..not dashing, but you could bet on him
Now you're going back even one more generation! He was the champ before Greenleaf took over, more than 80 years ago. Actually it really isn't that long ago, when I think that my father watched Greenleaf play in New York. And the man I grew up admiring, George Rood, played against Greenleaf many times. He only died recently.
Frank Taberski
Now that's digging way back!
I met one of Frank's grandsons, Brad Taberski, many years ago. He said grandpa used to run hundreds of balls in practice. This would have been on the old 5 X 10 tables. He had a super sharp ability to read the rack better than anyone, it was said.
Brad had one of Frank's practice cues with him when I saw him. He let me check it out. It didn't look like anything special but judging from the countersunk joint and old styling, it might have been a rare Herman Rambow cue. I shot a few balls with it and, my god, it had a sweet feeling hit to it.
Brad never took up the game seriously and only of few of Frank's decendents play at all.
Edit: I should also add that Frank had no problem staring at a cluster of balls for 15 minutes, looking for a makable ball. If none was there, he'd take a restroom break, come back and end his inning playing a safe. This drove his opponents and spectators nuts. He could've single-handedly killed the game entirely.
Now that's digging way back!
I met one of Frank's grandsons, Brad Taberski, many years ago. He said grandpa used to run hundreds of balls in practice. This would have been on the old 5 X 10 tables. He had a super sharp ability to read the rack better than anyone, it was said.
Brad had one of Frank's practice cues with him when I saw him. He let me check it out. It didn't look like anything special but judging from the countersunk joint and old styling, it might have been a rare Herman Rambow cue. I shot a few balls with it and, my god, it had a sweet feeling hit to it.
Brad never took up the game seriously and only of few of Frank's decendents play at all.
Edit: I should also add that Frank had no problem staring at a cluster of balls for 15 minutes, looking for a makable ball. If none was there, he'd take a restroom break, come back and end his inning playing a safe. This drove his opponents and spectators nuts. He could've single-handedly killed the game entirely.
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That story has been around for a while. DiLiberto said it didnt happen but by all accounts Willie was not real classy during the 2nd prize presentation.
I remember seeing more than 15 years ago some video clip or in print or something like that where willie was shown assaulting a tournament staff ( TD or referre ).He punched/slapped/shoved or whatever word one chooses to use.It was an assault.The only thing I now remember is that it happened in Greater Los Angeles area in California.I do not know any other details.
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Documenting Reyes
The really awful shame of history is that there is no film of Mosconi in his prime really running balls. This is probably due to the near-death of pool and thus it's associated journalistic documentation at the height of Mosconi's ball running ability. Nobody is going to make much of a believable argument against Efren Reyes once he's gone because there's just too much video. All of the most impressive shots done by every other player I have ever watched do not add up to what I have seen Efren do.
I do wish however that someone would just pay Reyes to play straight pool on video, day after day. I wonder if he knows how badly his fans and admirers want to see a huge straight pool run by him. Like many of his fans, I believe he would not only eclipse the record if he tried but dazzle us many times doing it. I can feel time running out on this.... does anyone else see in their mind's eye the image of catalog pages flying off a calendar and a clock spinning toward the irrevocable loss of this chance Efren Reyes has?
The really awful shame of history is that there is no film of Mosconi in his prime really running balls. This is probably due to the near-death of pool and thus it's associated journalistic documentation at the height of Mosconi's ball running ability. Nobody is going to make much of a believable argument against Efren Reyes once he's gone because there's just too much video. All of the most impressive shots done by every other player I have ever watched do not add up to what I have seen Efren do.
I do wish however that someone would just pay Reyes to play straight pool on video, day after day. I wonder if he knows how badly his fans and admirers want to see a huge straight pool run by him. Like many of his fans, I believe he would not only eclipse the record if he tried but dazzle us many times doing it. I can feel time running out on this.... does anyone else see in their mind's eye the image of catalog pages flying off a calendar and a clock spinning toward the irrevocable loss of this chance Efren Reyes has?
The world needs a living world record holder in straight pool.
There is a part of me that reveres the World Record by Willie Mosconi not because of the number of balls run but because of the length of time the record has stood.
There is lots to discuss and people as always will side on one side of the fence or the other for various reasons about anything like what is being discussed in this thread.
The reason I started this thread is because I think the world needs another straight pool "world record holder" champion, one who can say that he indeed holds the WORLD RECORD in straight pool. A video recording is sorely needed for this next WORLD RECORD in straight pool. A crowd witnessing the record breaking would make it even better.
For me, I don't measure the World Records by weighing the merits of how a person's personality is perceived. Each of us has our good side and our bad side and Willie and the rest of the current pros are no different.
I do however believe that the equipment makes a big difference. Tough, narrow Diamond pockets with a little humidity can be brutal on a 9 foot table FOR ANY PLAYER and don't go to talking about older, thinner cloth. Sure, Willie didn't always have perfect playing conditions but he like every other top straight pool player knows and demands top playing conditions to improve their level of play.
I have also been wondering if there are enough people with money to spend on reviving similar straight pool exhibitions from yesteryear. The straight pool championships seem to be growing in numbers and added money so why not have some of these straight pool exhibitions which Willie was so well know for.
Mark Cantrill made some successful jaunts with the legends of pool and I was wondering if the pool world is ready for exhibition style straight pool. I see that there is a lot of passion for the game in this thread and would love to see it grow even though I haven't been fully bitten by the bug.
Willie will always be known as one of the greatest pool players that has ever lived regardless of who breaks his record and regardless of what equipment they do it on. There is no dishonor in having your record broken. Willie has moved on from our vision and it is time to find a living champion to share that record with.
JoeyA
There is a part of me that reveres the World Record by Willie Mosconi not because of the number of balls run but because of the length of time the record has stood.
There is lots to discuss and people as always will side on one side of the fence or the other for various reasons about anything like what is being discussed in this thread.
The reason I started this thread is because I think the world needs another straight pool "world record holder" champion, one who can say that he indeed holds the WORLD RECORD in straight pool. A video recording is sorely needed for this next WORLD RECORD in straight pool. A crowd witnessing the record breaking would make it even better.
For me, I don't measure the World Records by weighing the merits of how a person's personality is perceived. Each of us has our good side and our bad side and Willie and the rest of the current pros are no different.
I do however believe that the equipment makes a big difference. Tough, narrow Diamond pockets with a little humidity can be brutal on a 9 foot table FOR ANY PLAYER and don't go to talking about older, thinner cloth. Sure, Willie didn't always have perfect playing conditions but he like every other top straight pool player knows and demands top playing conditions to improve their level of play.
I have also been wondering if there are enough people with money to spend on reviving similar straight pool exhibitions from yesteryear. The straight pool championships seem to be growing in numbers and added money so why not have some of these straight pool exhibitions which Willie was so well know for.
Mark Cantrill made some successful jaunts with the legends of pool and I was wondering if the pool world is ready for exhibition style straight pool. I see that there is a lot of passion for the game in this thread and would love to see it grow even though I haven't been fully bitten by the bug.
Willie will always be known as one of the greatest pool players that has ever lived regardless of who breaks his record and regardless of what equipment they do it on. There is no dishonor in having your record broken. Willie has moved on from our vision and it is time to find a living champion to share that record with.
JoeyA
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In Danny's book, he says that Willie said something to the TD to the effect that he could take the 2nd place trophy/check and shove it up his a**, and that the story had been spun over the years but that they never really came to blows.
and Danny WAS there unlike many who tell the KO story.
Oh so true... very difficult to put the bit on the younger generation.. they usually don't have any money and when they do it's always "I already spent it, I have these other people that I owe"
Okay, it happened in 1966 in Burbank, CA. Fred Whalen promoted the 14.1 World Straight Pool tournament at the Elks Lodge there. Arnie Satin was his TD. Fred paid Willie $10,000 to come out of retirement (after 10 years) and play. Willie badly wanted to win and was on his way to victory until Cisero Murphy beat him in a critical match. Joe Balsis (who also had beaten Willie earlier) then took first and Willie got second.
Mosconi did not care much for Satin and the feelings were mutual. At the award ceremony there were words between the two and Willie shoved Satin after being handed his trophy. NO blows were thrown. I was told by Whalen that Satin made some sarcastic remark (I forgot what) when he handed Willie his prize. Willie took offense and made his nasty response about where to put the trophy. They got a little too close and Willie gave Arnie a shove to get out of his way. Then cooler heads got between them.
That's the way I remember Whalen's version of the story. The shove became a punch in the various re-tellings.
Not only a punch but a Knock Out.
Anyway thanks for clarification but im sure i will hear the KO story again if i live long enough-3-4 months probably.
The table would have to have the same cloth that Willie used (whatever that was) or something with essentially similar properties. I know it wasn't Simonis 860 and was much slower with a nap.
The hardest part about straight pool isn't pocketing balls (which the table and pocket sizes affect), it's opening up the pack and subsequent clusters while continuing a run. Many times with Simonis 860, all it takes is one break shot. With a slow cloth, it usually takes two or three attempts to fully separate the balls. For this reason, straight pool is far too easy for pros on Simonis 860 no matter the table and pocket sizes.
IMHO, breaking Mosconi's record on a table with Simonis 860 would require an asterisk.
Although I do realize the '526' record is reveered by many players, but this was done in an exhibition not tournament play.
It is akin to the 75 yard field goal made in a practice with the wind behind the kick.
Or 156 consecutive free throws in basketball. Not in a game but in practice.
Or the 700 foot home run in batting practice.
or the 300 mph lap speed in time trials.
IMO Outside of the competition, records are just fluff for the fans.
It is akin to the 75 yard field goal made in a practice with the wind behind the kick.
Or 156 consecutive free throws in basketball. Not in a game but in practice.
Or the 700 foot home run in batting practice.
or the 300 mph lap speed in time trials.
IMO Outside of the competition, records are just fluff for the fans.
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I am going to throw this out there and someone else can comment on it. By the way Danny told me this story. This all really started during the tournament when a foul was called on Mosconi. Mosconi refused to admit to it and argued attempting to continue playing pushing the ref aside. The ref being in an awkward situation having to dispute the great Mosconi stood his ground. At that point Mosconi was trying to now say the foul didn't count on him because he doesn't play by those rules or something of that nature. It was all caught in a series of photos that have Mosconi with his arms flying all over the place and in the refs face yelling. Even though they are just black and white pictures you can almost hear Mosconi the pictures are so vivid. The set I had were lost in a hurricane along with a ton of billiard memorabilia. My copies were not the only ones I am sure. I wonder if someone out there still has them. If someone can get in touch with Danny D. I am sure he will tell the story in more detail and he may even have the pictures I was referring to.
Ok but It's never going to be done in true tournament play-once 125/150 points are reached that match is over and its just running balls and going for the record. I doubt you will see the run ended on a safe (that would be funny) They are just gonna keep firing away.
Not to mention there have been only 2 claims to higher practice runs and who really knows about those.
Fans love records and the guy who breaks the record will make at least $250k off it (sad) and generate whole lot of interest for the sport. Im thinking about kicking in some addl bonus money next year for it but i have to wait to make sure the market doesn't crash in the mean time.
The felt vs cloth is a big difference. So if someone was going to try and break it on a 4x8 it would be cool if it was felt.
I think Mosconi has a high run of over 400 on a 5x10 with felt correct??
Also as far as ease for break and runs for 8 ball it's bartable>>>bigtable(assuming same cueball)
I've never seen Willie hit a ball under 70 or 80 yrs old but from everyone that has seen him in his prime they all seem to say there was just something different(better)about the way Willie did it than everyone else.
I think Mosconi has a high run of over 400 on a 5x10 with felt correct??
Also as far as ease for break and runs for 8 ball it's bartable>>>bigtable(assuming same cueball)
I've never seen Willie hit a ball under 70 or 80 yrs old but from everyone that has seen him in his prime they all seem to say there was just something different(better)about the way Willie did it than everyone else.