Uh oh. Berhman/ABP

Sex Sells

the title says enough! if you look at other sports NASCAR, sexy models on hoods of vehicle, Motorcycle calenders have models, fishing uses sex to sell lures and these are just a few example if you think about it there are several other companies the uses this technique why? because it works not because its right but because it works!

If pool in general got organized and marketed itself properly we would all benefit from it. There are a lot of great ideas out there we need someone to grab the reins, pull the trigger and get the party started. until then we are beating that dead horse.
 
Yeah, and Florian is GREAT at what he does! But let's face it, he's JUST a trick shot guy, and everybody knows that trick shot guys aren't REAL poolplayers, and boring to watch...NOT!!!! Then there's that World Champion trick shot guy who's an APA LO. He's probably part of the conspiracy! :rolleyes:

Way to go Florian! Keep doing what you do. You're an asset to the sport. Same to you Andy Segal!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

jalapus logan said:
Well, at least Florian is one who seems to get it. Observe:

"Hi guys!

Has been a long time I haven't post out there so I'll fix that by posting here the link of my new video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbn_F...mment_received

I'm actually really experimentating on this one.I asked myself which new tricks non pool player would enjoy without sacryfing the players. I don't know if I succeed, I will need to check your reactions but all I can say is that I try to do something faster that old tricks, something we may turn to a real show for a large public...You guys let me know what you think "

Here's his new thread (with some great new shots and pizazz)

So, at least someone is out there trying to get some new fans interested!
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Chris...That's a bit of a stretch imo. The APA (local) generates gross annual revenues of somewhere around $300,000,000. APA Corporate gets 20% of that as royalty payments. To say that Jeanette is getting a substancial part of $60 million is ludicrous at best. Her salary from APA, although direct #'s are known to only a few, is likely around $100K, which is something probably reasonably close to what they were paying AF. Not really trying to denigrate what you said, which I agree with...but wanting to be a bit more accurate, from a dollars and cents standpoint. Now...how the APA distributes that money...that's a thread for another day! One thing they certainly could do is up the prize money in their national events. In fact, they could triple it right now, and never even miss it!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott.. I totally agree with the money aspect that they payout. Its frugal at best. As far as Jeanette's salary, im sure its there or maybe a touch more, but to better what I was meaning, is she is getting substantial money from marketing herself as someone the APA could use as a face. Here salary doesn't include what she makes cash in fist at these little events.
Above all that, the men of this sport need to find a way to market ourselves again, professionally, meaning, the same things any other professional does to maintain standards and social prowess.. If we can get the men back to the TV limelight with sponsorships and big prize pools, we might be able to get some money back in this sport, and get a large fan base going again.
 
Chris...Now there's a post I can get completely behind! :thumbup: I wouldn't be a bit surprised that the $$$ Jeanette takes in during those local appearances frequently goes to some charity. She doesn't need the money.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Chris_Horton said:
Scott.. I totally agree with the money aspect that they payout. Its frugal at best. As far as Jeanette's salary, im sure its there or maybe a touch more, but to better what I was meaning, is she is getting substantial money from marketing herself as someone the APA could use as a face. Here salary doesn't include what she makes cash in fist at these little events.
Above all that, the men of this sport need to find a way to market ourselves again, professionally, meaning, the same things any other professional does to maintain standards and social prowess.. If we can get the men back to the TV limelight with sponsorships and big prize pools, we might be able to get some money back in this sport, and get a large fan base going again.
Click to expand...
 
I hope Earl or Mike D win it this year. I also hope that the ABP changes their mind. I understand they are trying to take a stand, but just like politics a deal usually gets worked out in the last hour.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
Actually Mr. Griffin has started such a league, the USAPL.

But in response to your post I guess I'm stuck on trying to understand why existing league players should donate to professional pool, other than sticking their dead money in to open event entries. I would be more open to making a $1 weekly donation to the American Cancer Society, the Red Cross, or some other charity. Professional pool is not a charity, or at least not a deserving one. It just seems to me that if league players are going to be giving money to funding a viable professional tour then it is the league players (and not the league owner or the pro players) who should own the tour and reap any financial rewards.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Marks idea with the USAPL. And one of the things I like about it is that he is doing this with a brand new league rather than "forcing" players in his existing league to donate to funding a professional tour that either he or the pro players would own. I would imagine Mr. Griffin thought of this when starting the USAPL. This way anyone joining the league knows up front this is the deal and those interested in supporting professional pool this way can join and everyone is on the same page.

Having the BCA or APA charge all of it's players $1 week say to help fund a professional tour may be a good way to acquire the capital to start such a business venture but then the investors should reap the rewards if it works. Professional pool is not a charity, it's a business. Business don't have a right to succeed or even exist. If it isn't a viable business or isn't properly managed, maybe it just isn't supposed to exist, as much as some of us would like it to.
Click to expand...

I understand your point. But Scott's suggestion (I think it was Scott) was if every league player in the country donated $1 once that would generate $400K, more than enough capital to start up something for a professional organization.

I wouldn't dream of trying to collect a dollar a week from league players to support professional pool. Nope. But if there were a program in place to get us all to donate a buck once to get the thing started, I'm all for it.

(Again, with all the proviso's of who was running it, etc etc yada yada. It's the concept of the thing we're talking about here, since the likeliehood of it becoing reality is rather slim.)
 
Scott Lee said:
Chris...That's a bit of a stretch imo. The APA (local) generates gross annual revenues of somewhere around $300,000,000. APA Corporate gets 20% of that as royalty payments. To say that Jeanette is getting a substancial part of $60 million is ludicrous at best.
Click to expand...


I must have read this wrong, what local market do you live in that brings in $300,000,000 a year? I think I need to move apparently... That even seems kinda high on national level. Not trying to be argumentative or anything, just curious...

;)
 
Scott Lee said:
Lou...Actually the numbers are put out by the SGMA, not the BCA. As far as my stats, about 'hard core players'...that comes from many years of traveling all over the country, and seeing how pool leagues operate in small town USA. I'm not that far off. There are FAR more small local independent pool leagues than there are sanctioned league players...and there are 400K of those.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...


Yes, but isn't it the BCA that uses the SGMA results?

BTW, SGMA gets its data from online surveys. Has anyone here ever participated in a SGMA survey? I mean, we're the hard-core constituency of the sport -- certainly loads of us should have been in the 40,000 member cohort they survey, at least once in the last half dozen or so years they've been polling people. Right?

Lou Figueroa
 
Scott Lee said:
Chris...Now there's a post I can get completely behind! :thumbup: I wouldn't be a bit surprised that the $$$ Jeanette takes in during those local appearances frequently goes to some charity. She doesn't need the money.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

I went to one of her exhibitions quite a few years ago. She did a few trick shots, played a few local guys for $10 or $20 a game, and then gave autographs to a looooooooong line of people for $20 each.

Every time she received money she made it abundantly clear that the money was not going to her, but instead to a charity.

I would be hard-pressed right now to remember which charity. If (when :rolleyes:) it comes to me, I'll edit this post.

What I do remember that she was truly a class act.
 
allen_jr said:
I must have read this wrong, what local market do you live in that brings in $300,000,000 a year? I think I need to move apparently... That even seems kinda high on national level. Not trying to be argumentative or anything, just curious...

;)
Click to expand...

I read Scott's post as all the locals brought in that much annually, of which the mother ship would get it's 20%(?) cut, though I still would be surprised if it is this much. I don't know the weekly player fees in the APA so I don't really have a clue how much they bring in. If all 250,000(?) players played 52 weeks a year paying $10 each week, that would amount to $130MM. I'm sure not all players play/pay every week, but on the other hand there are also a lot of them that play in more than one APA league each week.
 
allen_jr....You're correct! I made a mistake in my math (I originally figured using individual players instead of teams). It's closer to $40,000,000 gross revenue generated...meaning APA Corporate gets $8M as their share (plus another $5M+ in annual membership fees)...still a huge number.

Keep in mind these are approximate numbers...

30,000 teams x $30/avg team fee (many are higher) x 43 weeks (average length of league play). There's about $40M!...gross revenue.

Thanks for catching that! It DID seem like too big of a number when I posted it! LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

allen_jr said:
I must have read this wrong, what local market do you live in that brings in $300,000,000 a year? I think I need to move apparently... That even seems kinda high on national level. Not trying to be argumentative or anything, just curious...

;)
Click to expand...
 
ha ha ha

Blackjack said:
No, just negating the offer to past US Open champions that support and participate in the boycott. Barry just double-dog-dared them.

:nanner:
Click to expand...

What a classy way for Barry to stand up to being bullied :thumbup: I agree that players need to know they are getting paid but the way they went about it was lacking.
 
No, you're right Mitchell. Only 5 of 8 on a team play each week. I have revised my original post to reflect the corrections! Sorry...I got a little carried away! :grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

DogsPlayingPool said:
I read Scott's post as all the locals brought in that much annually, of which the mother ship would get it's 20%(?) cut, though I still would be surprised if it is this much. I don't know the weekly player fees in the APA so I don't really have a clue how much they bring in. If all 250,000(?) players played 52 weeks a year paying $10 each week, that would amount to $130MM. I'm sure not all players play/pay every week, but on the other hand there are also a lot of them that play in more than one APA league each week.
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
allen_jr....You're correct! I made a mistake in my math (I originally figured using individual players instead of teams). It's closer to $40,000,000 gross revenue generated...meaning APA Corporate gets $8M as their share (plus another $5M+ in annual membership fees)...still a huge number.

Keep in mind these are approximate numbers...

30,000 teams x $30/avg team fee (many are higher) x 43 weeks (average length of league play). There's about $40M!...gross revenue.

Thanks for catching that! It DID seem like too big of a number when I posted it! LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...


haha, no worries.. I know they bring in plenty, but $300 mil seemed like quite a bit :)

I have long thought they have the perfect structure in place to create a well-funded pro tour, which would include a system for aspiring amateurs to work their way up to pro level... but that's a whole 'nother story...
 
Just a question, not meant to start a flame war..........

Why do I (as a league player) want to donate even a dollar to an organization that the players do nothing to promote the sport ?

I could see it differently if the 'pros' were out there trying to get sponsors or the like, maybe even putting on exhibitions at some events. But if these 'pros' are going to sit on thier collective a$$e$, make demands, and not attempt in any way, shape or form to make pool a more mainstream game/sport, why do I want to commit even a dollar of my money to thier plight ?

Irving Crane chose to sell Cadillacs in Rochester back in the late 50'. Pool money wasn't his primary source of income, it supplemented his income.

Just sayin'................
 
Mickey Qualls said:
Just a question, not meant to start a flame war..........

Why do I (as a league player) want to donate even a dollar to an organization that the players do nothing to promote the sport ?

I could see it differently if the 'pros' were out there trying to get sponsors or the like, maybe even putting on exhibitions at some events. But if these 'pros' are going to sit on thier collective a$$e$, make demands, and not attempt in any way, shape or form to make pool a more mainstream game/sport, why do I want to commit even a dollar of my money to thier plight ?

Irving Crane chose to sell Cadillacs in Rochester back in the late 50'. Pool money wasn't his primary source of income, it supplemented his income.

Just sayin'................
Click to expand...

To play the devils advocate and answer that, I as a league player would be willing to donate a dollar (or more, one time) to an organization setting up a fund and program to create a true national professional pool players organization.

I would do this once I knew that this organization had, as a part of it's mission statement, the full intention of making sure that the participating league systems would have plenty of interaction from the professionals, in the way of appearances/clinics, etc, when they were appearing in a given location. (Not necessarily every week, but certainly every month, as they toured around the country.)

The integration of the league systems, the pro's and most likely the regional tours (as they would no doubt have to be included in any workable national organization) would all benefit from cross-promotion, better attendance at events, more recognition for the very best players in our sport, and a potential growth path for the beginner, thru the advanced player, to the smaller-scale regional player, to the touring pro. If one was so inclined and had the ability.

This could work. There are people who could make it work. I would support this kind of effort, and I believe that if it was presented properly, it could get a lot of suuport from the league players (and other non-professional players who don't happen to playin a league) around the country.

Is it pie-in-the-sky, yep. Could it work, yep. Am I holding my breath, nope.
 
Barry should issue IOUs to the top 4 US Open finishers. Let's call these IOUs Barry Bonds(TM). ;)

After the final match, the top four could choose to participate (or not) in an open cash auction, with bidding starting at something reasonable, say, 50 cents on the dollar. The players selling their Barry Bonds(TM) would get paid immediately by the investors, who would in turn get paid by Barry.

Barry Bonds(TM) would be backed by the full faith and credit of Barry's long track record of paying off over time, which we know is good. As investments go these days, this would be a pretty sure bet.

An investment bank would then securitize the Barry Bonds(TM) and make a market for Billiard Default Options(TM). The bank would ensure that any losses from BDOs would be covered in the time-honored tradition of passing them along to U.S. taxpayers.

OK, all kidding aside, one can't help but sympathize to some extent with everyone involved in pro pool. Pro pool players are incredibly skilled, but their product is not competitive in the entertainment business. It's a major bummer.
 
justadub said:
To play the devils advocate and answer that, I as a league player would be willing to donate a dollar (or more, one time) to an organization setting up a fund and program to create a true national professional pool players organization.

I would do this once I knew that this organization had, as a part of it's mission statement, the full intention of making sure that the participating league systems would have plenty of interaction from the professionals, in the way of appearances/clinics, etc, when they were appearing in a given location. (Not necessarily every week, but certainly every month, as they toured around the country.)

The integration of the league systems, the pro's and most likely the regional tours (as they would no doubt have to be included in any workable national organization) would all benefit from cross-promotion, better attendance at events, more recognition for the very best players in our sport, and a potential growth path for the beginner, thru the advanced player, to the smaller-scale regional player, to the touring pro. If one was so inclined and had the ability.

This could work. There are people who could make it work. I would support this kind of effort, and I believe that if it was presented properly, it could get a lot of suuport from the league players (and other non-professional players who don't happen to playin a league) around the country.

Is it pie-in-the-sky, yep. Could it work, yep. Am I holding my breath, nope.
Click to expand...

I truly appreciate the civilized answer, Justadub.

I agree with your view. I could 'buy' into this program (or whatever they want to call it) for a couple of bucks. And yes, there are people in the industry that could make it work.
As far as the cross-promotion ? Yeah, that can work, too. And in a big way. If the appearances/clinics/exhibitions generate more interest by the casual league player, everybody wins. The 'pros' get a chance to interact with the fans, which will get more participation in more events, which will generate more revenue, whether in the form of entry fees, spectator seats, and/or vendor sales. As an example, how many MORE casual players would be swayed towards a Fury cue "because that's what Rodney Morris shoots with, and he was just here last month" ?

(Disclaimer : I don't know if Rodney is still with Fury or not. His relationship with Fury was the first example that came to mind).

Sadly, I think your last line says it all, though. I think to orchestrate something like this would take more than a verbal promise from the 'pros'. With pool in it's current state (even prior to the US Open/ABP debacle), I think to get something like this off the ground, the 'pros' have to make the first move, and start doing the above suggestions before applying for any sort of financial support from the league systems.

Much respect to you, Justadub.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top