USA 3rd in World?

[billbOK]

Agreed. Jay, that the talent pool of "good players" may be deeper than Europe and Asia, but we don't have our fair share of the world's 100 best players.

As for the choice of America's best to skip events on foregin soil, I'm not sure motivation has anything to do with it. The economics don't add up for them. To break even, they typically need a top 10 finish and given how strong the fields are these days, that's what we call here in Ameirca "bad action" for all but the superelite. The Europeans not only get government assistance, but they also have a well established pro pool tour called the Europour from which they can make a few euros. That is why there is so much urgency to grow the number of elite pro pool events here in America, and, similarly, why I found the timing of the ABP boycott, which could possibly wipe the US Open from the face of the earth, surprising.

This is not true for most of the European country. From what I know it is only the case in the Netherlands where the pool federation has subventions from the governement.

As you said the Eurotour is without a doubt the best vector of pool in Europe. It also provides an official ranking wich is use for the EPBF spots in WPA events.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Taiwan and China are TWO separate sovereign countries.

Ony so long as the US can afford to spend more money than the rest of the world combined in Military activities. Afterwards, probably not.

 

[Roadie]

What happened to #4?

Good question. This thread has too much math for me.

 

[saddlebow]

it starts with the kids

EBPF has a youth director,http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=8933
when the Euros come to an international Junior event, they bring a full team with equipment, roadies, coaches, and cue mechanic. Same with the Japanese, Taiwanese, Filipinos and Chinese. US kids show up with their cues and a lot of heart.
Despite the lack of organized support, the US juniors do well: Jesse Engel and Brianna Miller were both runners up in the World Juniors last year, Brittany Bryant won in 2008 and 2010, Mary Rakin owned the event and won back to back in 2006 & 2007. But the organizations that are supporting young players in other countries are designed to develop and produce strong international players, like Ko Pin Yi, who won the world Juniors in 2005 and 2008, and just won the Guinness World Series.
We've got 6 Juniors trying to get to Poland to play in the Junior Worlds at the end of August. I tried last week to drum up some support, but it quickly faded to page 5. If you want to help keep the US players in International competition, send a donation to the BEF.....it all starts with the kids........
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3102982#post3102982

 

[meximan2469]

Here's my top 10.....

1. Phillipines
2. China/Taipei
3. Great Britain
4. USA
5. Japan
6. Germany
7. Netherlands
8. Canada
9. Indonesia
10. Switzerland


Thinking about this made me really want them to have that Team Championship that they had a couple of years ago again.....

 

[Fatboy]

After watching the 2011 Guinness event live on TV over here, I came to the realization that the US does not have the best players in the world anymore. I'm probably behind the curve on this, as usual, but here is the way I see it:

1st place is still the Philippines
2nd place goes to China and Taiwan (seem the same to me but with a territorial dispute!)
3rd place is US I think
4th place is Europe (sorry I bundled this but too many to list)
5th place is Indonesia

I don't know about the other countries

Just my opinion

Well I'm still a US citizen and root for my country but purely based on what I saw, China players played so great! Out shot, out safetied, out position played, and had great fundamentals!!!

What do you think?

--Jeff

its been this way for some time now, Americas self perception is way off from reality on so many levels its just sad. Go live out side America for a year and youll see what I mean. I'm not knocking America. What I am saying is America is clueless about our international status. Still a great country. I dont blame Americans-its the media, most Americans only know what they gather from the media and that will not reflect the truth of our international status, clout. The media over states how great we are thus giving us Americans a false impression of ourselfs. And I dont like that. I like facts.


best

eric

 

[K.Mcphee]

After watching the 2011 Guinness event live on TV over here, I came to the realization that the US does not have the best players in the world anymore. I'm probably behind the curve on this, as usual, but here is the way I see it:

1st place is still the Philippines
2nd place goes to China and Taiwan (seem the same to me but with a territorial dispute!)
3rd place is US I think
4th place is Europe (sorry I bundled this but too many to list)
5th place is Indonesia

I don't know about the other countries

Just my opinion

Well I'm still a US citizen and root for my country but purely based on what I saw, China players played so great! Out shot, out safetied, out position played, and had great fundamentals!!!

What do you think?

--Jeff

How many Americans played this event?

 

[The Chinchilla]

My guess is 3rd in the world and dropping fast. This is all just so obvious to me, but hey, i'm only one guy.

There is relatively very little American up and coming talent now. It's not that we're not talented, or not motivated, it is because of what has happened to us.

People that used to come into pool rooms and watch a guy like Keith Mcready play, now they come in and see 8 guys getting drunk and missing every ball. This is the atmosphere that has caused this, I've seen it first hand. One good tournament after the next cancelled because a league took too many of its players. This happens again, and again and again until there is nothing. Money that used to have the potential to go into a good player's pocket now goes to some rich guy that owns a huge league.

That is what i'd really like people to see, that these leagues are just money making machines. That's all they are! And they have a giant effect on our game, make no mistake. We don't need these leagues to have fun playing pool.

Anyway, if I was a top pro I know what I'd do, and have know for many years. Travel through Asia, pick a spot that agrees with you, and set up camp. Cus there aint gonna be any growth in pool in the US anytime soon.

 

[5am]

My list as of the moment would be:
1) Taiwan
2) China
3) Philippines
4) Europe
5) USA

 

[jay helfert]

Agreed. Jay, that the talent pool of "good players" may be deeper than Europe and Asia, but we don't have our fair share of the world's 100 best players.

As for the choice of America's best to skip events on foregin soil, I'm not sure motivation has anything to do with it. The economics don't add up for them. To break even, they typically need a top 10 finish and given how strong the fields are these days, that's what we call here in Ameirca "bad action" for all but the superelite. The Europeans not only get government assistance, but they also have a well established pro pool tour called the Europour from which they can make a few euros. That is why there is so much urgency to grow the number of elite pro pool events here in America, and, similarly, why I found the timing of the ABP boycott, which could possibly wipe the US Open from the face of the earth, surprising.

Thanks Stu, fyi there are 14 events in the USA this year with 25K or more in added money! That is the most major pool tournaments we've had in many, many years here. Actually there is far more "tournament" action here than in Europe, and many more "euros/dollars" to be won. One caveat - you must play good, ala Shane Van Boening and Alex P. Last time I checked, Mika, Thorsten and now Darren are residing here. They seem to find a way to play all over the world as well.

You want to be considered an elite player, and be worthy of sponsorship, then you need to get out there and do it! Hat's off to Hunter Lombardo for giving it a shot. One more thing, a top player can usually get a "backer" to stake him in international events. That is if he is willing to fade the travel and stiff competition.

 

[sjm]

Thanks Stu, fyi there are 14 events in the USA this year with 25K or more in added money! That is the most major pool tournaments we've had in many, many years here. Actually there is far more "tournament" action here than in Europe, and many more "euros/dollars" to be won. One caveat - you must play good, ala Shane Van Boening and Alex P. Last time I checked, Mika, Thorsten and now Darren are residing here. They seem to find a way to play all over the world as well.

You want to be considered an elite player, and be worthy of sponsorship, then you need to get out there and do it! Hat's off to Hunter Lombardo for giving it a shot. One more thing, a top player can usually get a "backer" to stake him in international events. That is if he is willing to fade the travel and stiff competition.

Thanks for the education. I was unaware of some of this.

I had no idea that top American players can get backers to stake them in international events. If this is the case, and they still choose to sit out the big overseas events, then I understand why you suggest that their motivation is insufficient.

 

[dynamite]

Correct

How about providing a list of the world class events held in Asia in the past five years and then compare them to the amount of foreigners (non-asian) players who participated and what places were achieved. For as a small a group they have done quite well against a relative army of Asian on the Asian's home turf.

The example of Darren Appleton getting beaten by some random player in a rinky tournament doesn't prove anything. Too small a sample size and the circumstances are unknown. For all we know Daz was drunk off his ass partying and having a good time and still finished 3rd.

You are however absolutely right that in the USA there is little financial incentive because there is not a series of events that can support a large number of players to be full time professionals. But worldwide, including the existing events in the USA, there are plenty of events to make it worthwhile for America's elite players to keep their skills honed.

Haha you are bang on actually.. It was 2008 straight after I won world 10ball I was out ther partying with my good friend yannick and he said come enter a tournament which I did with a hangover. Was actually a good tournament but Not easy to play after 20bottles of budweiser the night before

 

[billiardspro]

maybe here in the states we should start to realize its SVB against the world.

 

[Masayoshi]

maybe here in the states we should start to realize its SVB against the world.

In some senses, it is. He is the only player the US has produced in recent years that consistently does well outside of the US. I think if you wouldn't jump into the box with Johnny Archer playing even, there is very little chance that you will win any of the big international events. Not that they shouldn't, but it would be like a B player joining a big regional event - more for the experience than the money or title, which is not what sponsors are looking for.

 

[Masirib5]

I think I have to agree. Who else in the US can really compete and win big international events? Perhaps Rodney Morris. I think he and Archer are about even. But now I think that is a thing of the past. I'm really pleased that Archer and Morris have the will to play in those events and I'm a big fan.

Am I missing anyone from the US. I don't mean to but I can't think of anyone that really has a chance at winning in the big show.

Several Euro players can and do win on the international scene for sure.

--Jeff

In some senses, it is. He is the only player the US has produced in recent years that consistently does well outside of the US. I think if you wouldn't jump into the box with Johnny Archer playing even, there is very little chance that you will win any of the big international events. Not that they shouldn't, but it would be like a B player joining a big regional event - more for the experience than the money or title, which is not what sponsors are looking for.

 

[Masayoshi]

I think I have to agree. Who else in the US can really compete and win big international events? Perhaps Rodney Morris. I think he and Archer are about even. But now I think that is a thing of the past. I'm really pleased that Archer and Morris have the will to play in those events and I'm a big fan.

Am I missing anyone from the US. I don't mean to but I can't think of anyone that really has a chance at winning in the big show.

Several Euro players can and do win on the international scene for sure.

--Jeff

Earl if he gets his head straight. Also, I think Oscar Dominguez is closing in on that level and will be there soon.

 

[Carolina Blue]

I went to the WPA international rankings list. http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/rankings

No Americans in the top ten. Shane is number 13. No other Americans in the top 50. Next one is Johnny Archer at number 75. All the top ten players are from the Philippines, Japan, England, The Netherlands, Taipei and Germany.

This is not from lack of trying. Four of the players ranked higher than Shane have played in less events than he has. However, other Americans have not been in the fields very often. And I don't think they have to sweat the travel any more than Mika and Appleton who both live here in the states and play in most all of the international stuff. If you look without bias at the results of the big tournaments the last five years you really can't consider America to be a pool powerhouse anymore.

 

[JAM]

Instead of analyzing, let's look at the 500-pound gorilla sitting in the thread. :grin:

How many American players are sponsored with money (not product)?

How many European players are sponsored with money (not product)?

This might help illuminate the prevalence of American pool strength on a global scale.

 

[Masirib5]

I think JAM is right in that the more events you enter the more points you are likely to accumulate so travel sponsorship is a big hit for the US players. Toward the bottom the scores are very small but they don't play in many events.

I only wish that some big [beer] company would sponsor a world tournament in the US similar to Guinness does.

--Jeff

I went to the WPA international rankings list. http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/rankings

No Americans in the top ten. Shane is number 13. No other Americans in the top 50. Next one is Johnny Archer at number 75. All the top ten players are from the Philippines, Japan, England, The Netherlands, Taipei and Germany.

This is not from lack of trying. Four of the players ranked higher than Shane have played in less events than he has. However, other Americans have not been in the fields very often. And I don't think they have to sweat the travel any more than Mika and Appleton who both live here in the states and play in most all of the international stuff. If you look without bias at the results of the big tournaments the last five years you really can't consider America to be a pool powerhouse anymore.

 

[TheThaiger]

Haha you are bang on actually.. It was 2008 straight after I won world 10ball I was out ther partying with my good friend yannick and he said come enter a tournament which I did with a hangover. Was actually a good tournament but Not easy to play after 20bottles of budweiser the night before

Budweiser in Bangers? You should try it after 20 Changs then mate!