ABP please dont go to the U.S. Open

[justadub]

I can't help but shake my head at this. People actually think this is good for the sport?

When sponsors quit contributing to an event that no longer has any prestige, and Accu Stats goes broke because no one wants to pay to watch PPV or buy DVDs of shortstops playing, then we'll see just how good this nonsense was for the game.

A lucky pay day for a b level pro is not worth the long-term damage that will result.

No one thinks that any of this is "good for the sport".

But rather than wringing our hands, and hurling insults at the players or Barry, or both, why not try to make the best of a situation that none of us have any control over?

There is going to be a US Open this fall, ABP or not. If the two sides cannot or will not come to an agreement, it will be too bad, but there will still be a tournament to decide, and there will still be some of the worlds best in attendance. And many others who will probably play pretty damned good pool, too.

Then, if we've had a ABP-less US Open, perhaps the two sides will take stock of their positions, and what each has lost, and maybe we'll see some progress for next year.

Or maybe one side, or the other, or both will dig in their heels even more. We shall see how that will be "good for the sport". And since it is "their" sport, maybe "they" will decide to do something to fix the problem.

 

[Scott Lee]

12ozCurl...Hey, take it easy. Nathan is absolutely a diehard fan, and has put his money where his mouth is, in producing some great pool viewing opportunities, whether on live stream or ppv or dvds. Let's not let this degenerate into an US vs THEM debate. Everyone has a stake here, and everyone is entitled to their opinion!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

You call yourself a diehard fan? I think your just another fanboy. A real Die hard fan would be there, watching from the rails.

 

[nathandumoulin]

You call yourself a diehard fan? I think your just another fanboy.

lol seriously?

I may be friends with many of the ABP members, but if you've read anything I've written, you'd know that I oppose the ABP stance on this one. I've also dedicated my lifes work to pool knowing that it pays far less than any other industry.

I may feel that the Open needs the ABP, but that doesnt mean i agree with the boycott. Either way, all I care is that this issue is resolved.

Honestly, do a background check next time before you decide to slander someone.

 

[Snapshot9]

Comments

The ABP is not doing themselves any favors by taking such a rigid stance on the issues at hand. Barry may not be 100% true, but he has proven himself enough in the past to be on the up and up. There has to be middle ground somewhere that would be best for all concerned, and the ABP should show a willingness to find it.

 

[dom_poppa]

lol seriously?

I may be friends with many of the ABP members, but if you've read anything I've written, you'd know that I oppose the ABP stance on this one. I've also dedicated my lifes work to pool knowing that it pays far less than any other industry.

I may feel that the Open needs the ABP, but that doesnt mean i agree with the boycott. Either way, all I care is that this issue is resolved.

Honestly, do a background check next time before you decide to slander someone.

I think he meant that you are not a die hard because you will refuse to watch if your friends don't show up.

It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with any of the parties involved......

it's just that you are not enough of a fan to still watch.

 

[nathandumoulin]

I think he meant that you are not a die hard because you will refuse to watch if your friends don't show up.

I'm a fan of a sport when it's played at it's absolute best, by the worlds best. Just because I don't enjoy watching hacks, doesn't mean I'm not dedicated.

Do you go to your local league night and sweat APA 3s? Doubtful. Why? Because it's just not as enjoyable to watch. Same reason why I don't have MP3s of people singing karaoke, or go to watch high school track meets. I just can't appreciate mediocrity, in any form.

Simply put, I'm drawn to the beauty of high level play. Anything short of that bores me. It's for this very reason why I feel an Open without the ABP players will be far from enjoyable.

 

[dom_poppa]

I'm a fan of a sport when it's played at it's absolute best, by the worlds best. Just because I don't enjoy watching hacks, doesn't mean I'm not dedicated.

Do you go to your local league night and sweat APA 3s? Doubtful. Why? Because it's just not as enjoyable to watch. Same reason why I don't have MP3s of people singing karaoke, or go to watch high school track meets. I just can't appreciate mediocrity, in any form.

Simply put, I'm drawn to the beauty of high level play. Anything short of that bores me.

too bad you think us, non-pros, are hacks.....

come watch me play....I can entertain you.

 

[nathandumoulin]

too bad you think us, non-pros, are hacks.....

come watch me play....I can entertain you.

Last year Mika and Klatt played a set where both players played near perfect, locking each other in the chair and making insane runouts. It was pool at it's absolute finest, the kind you only see a few times a year. Mika ran a 6-pack, then Klatt (who had been cold in his chair for 45 mins) stepped up to run a 4-pack, and then Mika ended it with a 5-pack. Zero balls were missed in the entire set.

I'm sure you're a capable player...I don't doubt that. But can you provide this kind of play for me to watch? Can you show me that level where it ceases to be obtainable to most people, and pushes into that echelon where you start to wonder if it's humanly possible to play any better?

To me, that's what the US Open is. It's that prestige of high level play that can't be found anywhere else on American soil. Take away those amazing players, and it's not the same.

 

[M HOUSE]

Jam, you're so right

Jam, you've been spot on with your remarks in this thread. Here's some proof.

Do you remember the ESPN Ultimate 9-Ball Challenge events from the 90's? The finals of those events were held at the ESPN club located in Disney World. What many probaly don't know is that there were tournaments held with a larger starting field and only the final eight moved on to the ESPN club.

Having the nearest pool room to Disney World, I was given the choice each year to host either the mens or the womens tournaments. That was an easy one, "Give me the women". Another room got the men by default.

I had to have bleachers brought in to accommodate all the spectators, while the other room had very few people in the building other than the players themselves.

One thing that I found interesting was what the men did each day after completing their matches. Most of them headed back to my room. They wanted to be where the ladies were too.

 

[Itsnotme]

Us open entry fee(s):

Pro: $1500.00

Amateur: $500.00

Well, that seems fair to me anyway ;-)

I wonder what Earl would think of that?

I hope the "pros" don't show up... They certainly are not acting like pros...

 

[GARY LLOYD]

That's the problem...

That's the problem the ABP can't draw. The only thing they can draw is a cue ball or a diagram of how to 3 rail kick.

You act like the pool players are NFL players that ACTUALLY draw for their respective league.

I have said that to numerous people in conversation. The pro players feel they have something they do not... Drawing Power. I mean at the BCAPL event in May how many amateur players are in Vegas? 5000 - 10000? They are what 500 feet down the hall from the pro events (Great events put on by CSI!) and they can't put 500 people in the seats at once. If you can't draw 5 - 10% from a target group you should own... What kind of power do you really have? How can you think that you will draw anyone from a non target market?

The pro players feel entitled to added monies and sponsorship but do virtually nothing to earn it except show up and play. In my opinion this has to change for the game to go any where. Promoters need to quit using there own money to fund the pros. They want guarantees... Fine. Your prize fund will equal your total entry fees minus event expenses. There is your guarantee. You want to win $20,000.00 put up $2,000.00. Get 10 - 1 on your entry. Forget all the free money you feel your entitled to. The Open pays $40,000.00 on $600.00 that's about 66 - 1. The Turning Stone pays $8,000.00 on $200.00 that's 40 - 1.

Added monies are a luxury not a given. So many players won't even play if there is no added money. I have heard players say they would rather play a $500.00 added (Based on 32 players) w/ a $20.00 greens fee event over a 100% pay out event. Based on the 32 players... The prize fund would be $140.00 less w/ $500.00 added as opposed to the 100% pay out. It kills me. 32 x 20 = $640 taken out. Now let me add $500.00 back in and they think they're ahead.

Before big sponsors and big monies ever find pool the game needs... A viable product, a self sustaining structure and format that is based on entry fees and numbers. Then there would be something to market. There would be something to sell. There would be something to draw with.

Thanks for sticking with me. Sorry so long. Just too much love for this game and don't want to see it wasted.

 

[stumpie71]

Gary Lloyd you hit the nail on the head. :thumbup:

 

[book collector]

If I am not mistaken Tom Jennings won the US Open 14.1 tournament in years where most of the other top players were boycotting.

 

[book collector]

I went to a tournament either in Wisconsin or Akron , can't remember which I do know it was not one of Terry Romines tournaments , they were always great. It had advertised all the top pros coming and when I got there the 20.00 seating was horrible, unless you paid 40 dollars for a VIP seat you couldn't see anything, there were only a handfull of pros . none of the top 20 and about half the field played B+ to C speed. I was never so disappointed in my life.
I know for myself I go to watch great players, if I want to see people that play like me I can stay home.

 

[Matt90]

I gotta say

I posted the other night on how tired I am of reading ABP/Barry stuff...but no one is forcing me ..right ? Jam, thanks for all your great input and wisdom .I can't give you any more green right now but I tried. I have only been to the US open twice .Each time was like a journey to Mecca for me as a pool player and a avid lover of this thing we all love to hate at times.I felt as if I had gone to the best tournament in history each time I went.To me if they (the ABP) did not show ......oh well !! I think there would be enough solid players and even some unknowns to keep the event running well.I think the US open is very well run ,classy ,and the best of the best .I would love to see Alison F. vs Earl Strickland in the finals ......that would be great but that's just me and my fantasy matches We have sayings where I am from about unreasonable people and organizations like "let em suck eggs" or "go pound sand " If the ABP does not work with Barry who seems more than flexible I think that's what he should tell em. I have to say I really enjoyed this ABP /Barry thread .Thanks

 

[JCIN]

The people who seem to think the ABP boycott will have a significant effect on the US Open have to base that opinion somewhat on the list of players they claim are boycotting. Based on personal conversations with people on that list I know that is a shaky foundation on which to base an opinion.

When players on the list are asking me whats going on it tells me that there are very serious organizational issues. If the rank and file didn't get the memo on the boycott before hand they may just decide to not get it until after the Open is over.

If the worst happens a few guys will stick to their guns and not show up. It will suck not having them there but I suspect after the first couple days new leaders and interesting trends will come about in the tournament as they always do and people will focus on that. Two weeks after the Open people will forget all about who did or didnt show up. The only thing they will remember is who won the 2011 US Open 9 Ball.

 

[gunzby]

The people who seem to think the ABP boycott will have a significant effect on the US Open have to base that opinion somewhat on the list of players they claim are boycotting. Based on personal conversations with people on that list I know that is a shaky foundation on which to base an opinion.

When players on the list are asking me whats going on it tells me that there are very serious organizational issues. If the rank and file didn't get the memo on the boycott before hand they may just decide to not get it until after the Open is over.

If the worst happens a few guys will stick to their guns and not show up. It will suck not having them there but I suspect after the first couple days new leaders and interesting trends will come about in the tournament as they always do and people will focus on that. Two weeks after the Open people will forget all about who did or didnt show up. The only thing they will remember is who won the 2011 US Open 9 Ball.

Zactly

Considering that Darren Appleton was on the list and said he would be there says that there wasn't a group decision on all to boycott the US Open.

I don't know any of the behind the scenes goings on, but I will go out on a limb here and say that there have been some serious strategic errors made by the ABP.

 

[jamesroberts]

This is the most retarded thread I think I have ever seen! Its not a prestigious tournament anymore if you take all the prestige out of it!
They already have a tournament for amateurs, its called the US Amateur, the only way that someone other than a pro is going to win the Us Open is if a donkey like me buys all the entrys and gives them to apa 2s.

All you guys on here dont have to like the pro's, but come on at least respect there ability. A couple posters on here get rolling and look what they come up with. Why not just start a "pro" tour,invite only, invite some of your buddies and hold a world championship and yes you too can be a world champion.
What weight does that hold if a champion gives you the 6 out...

Azbilliards is starting to make my head hurt!!!!

 

[JCIN]

invite some of your buddies and hold a world championship and yes you too can be a world champion.

That sounds pretty familiar....I think someone is already doing those.

 

[JAM]

I posted the other night on how tired I am of reading ABP/Barry stuff...but no one is forcing me ..right ? Jam, thanks for all your great input and wisdom .I can't give you any more green right now but I tried. I have only been to the US open twice .Each time was like a journey to Mecca for me as a pool player and a avid lover of this thing we all love to hate at times.I felt as if I had gone to the best tournament in history each time I went.To me if they (the ABP) did not show ......oh well !! I think there would be enough solid players and even some unknowns to keep the event running well.I think the US open is very well run ,classy ,and the best of the best .I would love to see Alison F. vs Earl Strickland in the finals ......that would be great but that's just me and my fantasy matches We have sayings where I am from about unreasonable people and organizations like "let em suck eggs" or "go pound sand " If the ABP does not work with Barry who seems more than flexible I think that's what he should tell em. I have to say I really enjoyed this ABP /Barry thread .Thanks

Great minds think alike!

If there was a female-versus-male kind of finals in the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship, I think it would really be great for pool.

There's quite a few lady pros capable of snatching this win, IMO. Karen Corr has defeated many a top champion in the past, as has Allison, Gerda, Helena, Monica, Kelly, and I don't know all the names of the bretheren of our Asian Pacific lady pros. And let's not forget Jasmin.

The pool public, what little pool public we have at these kinds of events, knows the lady pros. It might be tough for some male players to fade when the entire crowd is cheering and applauding after every shot the lady pro makes in a match. I can't tell you how often I've seen that. I always feel sorry for the guy.

When Dennis Hatch played Jeannette Lee at the Joss Turning Stone tournament, the entire joint was pulling for Jeannette, and she almost beat Hatch. The Hatchet man beat her by one game. It was hill-hill. What a thriller. My eyeballs were glued to that set. :shocked:

I would love to see that happen! :smile: