Corey Deuel Wishes to Speak for Himself

One bargaining chip for Barry, which would help in the financial stability of the tournament, would be to charge any pool player listed on the BCA points list or WPA points list a $1,500 entry fee. All others pay $500.

Since the ranked players require seeding, this seems like it would be one way to satisfy both sides.
 
I think we may have a winner!
Many saw this coming.

Mark Griffin

Guessing u r alluding to a certain asian persuasian ...LOL
you seem to have it out for him in alot of your posts. I asked him once why MG has it out for you so badly on the forums, he just laughed (evily?) jk.
well, maybe he is the brain behind it all. He does seem to carry more influence on pro players worldwide than any other promoter. if so, I guess i can see where MG and alot of promoters might be scared. could be their event next on the chopping block.
Cuz I heard the pro players were irate in Vegas at Grifins event. Guess it didnt help Archer drew Appleton 1st round and got beat 8-0 . yeesh
 
Guessing u r alluding to a certain asian persuasian ...LOL
you seem to have it out for him in alot of your posts. I asked him once why MG has it out for you so badly on the forums, he just laughed (evily?) jk.
well, maybe he is the brain behind it all. He does seem to carry more influence on pro players worldwide than any other promoter. if so, I guess i can see where MG and alot of promoters might be scared. could be their event next on the chopping block.
Cuz I heard the pro players were irate in Vegas at Grifins event. Guess it didnt help Archer drew Appleton 1st round and got beat 8-0 . yeesh

But, Charlie, you have to admit there truly are similarities between the ABP and the UPA.
 
I am in complete solidarity with Corey. I too am going to wait to see what happens.
 
Odds on Dragon conveniently announcing a tournament to be held in Asia with dates overlapping the US Open or so close to it that you would “have” to choose one or the other?!
 
ABP and US Open

Guessing u r alluding to a certain asian persuasian ...LOL
you seem to have it out for him in alot of your posts. I asked him once why MG has it out for you so badly on the forums, he just laughed (evily?) jk.
well, maybe he is the brain behind it all. He does seem to carry more influence on pro players worldwide than any other promoter. if so, I guess i can see where MG and alot of promoters might be scared. could be their event next on the chopping block.
Cuz I heard the pro players were irate in Vegas at Grifins event. Guess it didnt help Archer drew Appleton 1st round and got beat 8-0 . yeesh


I was just responding to an earlier post by M. House.

Then you go and say 'you seem to have it out for him in alot of your posts'

I think you are confusing apples and oranges.

My beef is with some of 'his' tactics. There is some discussion in a 14.1 thread where I state some of my reasons (yeah we need another 14.1 HOF --right!!). Since I have dealt with him, I do know the facts.


But please understand, 'MG and a lot of promoters' (your words) are not scared. (When you get the time you should give me the list of a lot of promoters.) I only know of 4 'promoters' of pro events.

I do not make money off the pro events - I would be far better financially to bring in more bar tables. So where does the 'fear factor' come in? If the pro players become more hassle than they are worth, I can go away.

And to set the record straight: In reference to the US Open 10-Ball, I was contacted by an ABP board officer and questioned why the event was not seeded. This was 2 hours before the players meeting and start of event. It had NEVER been discussed prior. The event had been scheduled for over 6 months - that is NOT how to take care of business.

Then the ABP players actually had a meeting to discuss walking out of the event if I would not seed. They never talked to me - and they did not get the votes. This just shows how ill advised they are. The draw had already been done and posted. There was no way I was going to alter our normal process.

This type of thinking has to stop.

And people like you - jumping to conclusions - also has to stop. If you have any quesitons, my cell is 702-835-2000.

I am not getting into a pissing contest with anyone who hides behind a screen name.

Mark Griffin
 
ABP and US Open

Now you got me going. . . . .

Because of the turmoil the pro players have caused, I have personally told two parties thinking of doing a pro event to wait until things settle down.

I cannot allow anyone to invest time and money in planning an event if there are threats of 'boycotts' over things like seeding, rules, posting money etc.

Does anyone understand what all this turmoil is causing???

The ripple effect can affect the sport for several years.

Again I will say: Barry caused a lot of his own problems - but the ABP did NOT do this the proper way. And as others have also noticed. Threats and boycotts are the pattern of past organizationa.

Mark Griffin
 
Now you got me going. . . . .

Because of the turmoil the pro players have caused, I have personally told two parties thinking of doing a pro event to wait until things settle down.

I cannot allow anyone to invest time and money in planning an event if there are threats of 'boycotts' over things like seeding, rules, posting money etc.

Does anyone understand what all this turmoil is causing???

The ripple effect can affect the sport for several years.

Again I will say: Barry caused a lot of his own problems - but the ABP did NOT do this the proper way. And as others have also noticed. Threats and boycotts are the pattern of past organizationa.

Mark Griffin

Dear Mr. Griffin,

I am not trying to be a smartass so please dont take this the wrong way, but I dont understand what turmoil this is creating or causing for other events to not promote high level tournaments?

Maybe if these other events had entry guidelines of, "if you are on a list to boycott or have ever boycotted an event, you are not welcome to enter this tournament" may dissolve a lot of the turmoil.

I guess hearing players complain about the BCAPL, APA, VNEA, TAP, etc, leagues and hearing the main answer "start your own league then if you dont like it" has made a lot of sense to me. Yes you can voice your opinion, but be prepared for an answer that you might not want to hear.

Well the ABP is just a group of top pool players that collectively decided voice an opinion and to quite. Now, they need to start their own tournaments and see how many participate under their guidelines.

If a group of players tried to pull that stunt 2hrs before the beginning of a tournament, I dont think any of them would be asked to ever come back because whats going to happen next time?


You know better than just about everyone on this subject, but honestly, if the ABP was to never show up to another event, would that really hurt the game of pool or would it maybe help the game of pool?

I honestly feel it would help the game of pool,,,it would open the doors up for thousands of players, rather than catering to 30-50 players that expect the thousands of players to pay for their lifestyle.


Thank you for reading.
 
Mr. Griffin,

If the professional pool players lose you as a supporter then they should truly pack it in and go look for work at the nearest McDonald's franchise. Of all the promoters who have come and gone you appear to be the most sound of them all. Never has there been the tiniest controversy with how your events are run or the payouts. Regardless of what the players want you have certainly given them a fair deal throughout your career and as such they should hold you as the example of how things should be done rather than attempt to impose demands on you.

It is ok that they want things to be done a certain way. It is not ok to attempt to implement those demands in a disorganized and threatening manner. Esepecially before exhausting all diplomatic and reasonable means.

If they lose you then good luck and good night.
 
ABP and US Open

Marie's Husband.

I was asked by a 3rd (and 4th) party about helpng them hold a pro event. They want the top players there because they know this is a money losing propositon - it is about ability to help a game they love and a little ego stoking.

I cannot in good faith try to have them go foreward when I cannot have a HIGH degree of being able to work with (and have present) many of the top players.

The US OPen is different - it is established over a 35 year history.
A new event has a lot of obstacles to overcome. (There are a lot of 1st annual events that never repeat). And fighting with the top players is something that noone needs.

I respect your thinking of 'not inviting' some players - but to be a BCA points event, the top 16 players get an invite. And the venue wants bodies.

Boycotts (or event a threat of a boycott) can put the dampner on plans - before the even become real plans.

Believe me - there are a lot of far reaching aspects of all this crap.

Decisions are not made in a vaccuum. Many do not realize that.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Mark Griffin
 
LOL thats too funny, "herd cats" damn things would go all over the place. They dont listen either. I'm not knocking the players, i'm not even thinking about them, i am just thinking of 100 cats in a room and truing to get them out one door. It might take a week. Cows are so much more predictable and easy to heard, I suppose thats why they are "Herd animals". Funny how things are in this world. I dont listen to anyone-like a cat. Thats why I couldnt ever have a job. "Be here at 10 tomarrow" LOL yeah right, I'd go eat dirt first and sleep under a bridge. Dont think I havent or wouldnt again.:smile: its is the lesser of 2 evils.


Herding cats is easy. Open a can of tuna at dinnertime and watch them all come running. Cats know how to show up for a guaranteed payday.
 
There you go, a good & successful business man just told you that he's had to make a solid business decision to not extend his business to prospective events because of the (potential) threat of continued boycotts.

The writings on the wall, ABP...what contingency plan has your executive committee developed in case of such a scenario? Hope your executive committee thought this through. You do have a strategic plan, right?
 
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Mr. Griffin,

Thank You for the response and I would have to agree with Roadie that you go above and beyond when it comes to promoting pool.

I would hate to see what the state of pool would be in if it wasnt for how hard you and your team works at ensuring the best interest of all is taken in consideration.

Best of luck and hopefully everything will work out for the best.
 
ABP and US Open

Just bumped this up because I thought there were a few interesting posts (#50 & #52) for starters.

Yet no comments.

Is anybody listeneing to what is really happening?

(If a tree falls in the woods and no body hears it - does it still make noise. . . .type of thing going on here).

Mark Griffin

(Am leaving town for a week tomorrow - so the forums won't have to listen to my thoughts for awhile. Might help both of us out - lol).
 
Mark...It's not that nobody is reading. It's just that we have to give EQUAL time to all the other "dubious" threads about this subject! LOL You and I have talked quite a bit about this, and both of us are just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Sure hope it doesn't have to come to that!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Marie's Husband.

I was asked by a 3rd (and 4th) party about helpng them hold a pro event. They want the top players there because they know this is a money losing propositon - it is about ability to help a game they love and a little ego stoking.

I cannot in good faith try to have them go foreward when I cannot have a HIGH degree of being able to work with (and have present) many of the top players.

The US OPen is different - it is established over a 35 year history.
A new event has a lot of obstacles to overcome. (There are a lot of 1st annual events that never repeat). And fighting with the top players is something that noone needs.

I respect your thinking of 'not inviting' some players - but to be a BCA points event, the top 16 players get an invite. And the venue wants bodies.

Boycotts (or event a threat of a boycott) can put the dampner on plans - before the even become real plans.

Believe me - there are a lot of far reaching aspects of all this crap.

Decisions are not made in a vaccuum. Many do not realize that.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Mark Griffin
 
Marie's husband...If I were you I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen! LOL You have to HAVE $$$ to put on a big tournament...not to mention the fact that the ABP had firmly stated that they have no intention of running tournaments or a tour.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Now, they need to start their own tournaments and see how many participate under their guidelines.
 
Who and what is the ABP?

Mark, as usual, sees the world in a matter of fact, here's the reality of what's happening, light, and as usual, he's right about it. The biggest issue here, for negotiations, mediations, contracts, boycotts, or whatever, is simple: WHO and WHAT is the ABP?
If they make demands from Barry, as they have, and Barry meets the demands, what do they give him? Is there a set of bylaws that requires all of it members to play, or be sanctioned? Can the ABP deliver players or require that they do not play in a competing event, like other sanctioning groups?
The problem here, is that you have an amorphous group with a fluid membership list making demands, and making threats if their demands aren't met. What good things will they do if the demands ARE met? Does ABP have agreements with its members that will enable the ABP to keep its members in line and require that they all show up at the Open, or all boycott it?
None of this should have seen the light of day, it's a PR battle to see who can say the most crap about the other guy, which no one can ever win.....
SMART guys would have figured out that they could have built the legitimacy of the new organization by associating with the longest running tournament [US Open] and the strongest running organization [CSI] instead of trying to define itself in opposition to those entities. Funny how the boycott threat keeps popping up, over and over....
but who, exactly, is the ABP, who speaks for it, and what is it trying to do? If it gets what is demanded, what do they do for Barry? That's the missing piece, and until the ABP tells us what it CAN do, and delivers, they're really no different than what they accuse Barry of being: all hat, no cattle.....
just sayin.
 
Just bumped this up because I thought there were a few interesting posts (#50 & #52) for starters.

Yet no comments.
Having just adopted my third cat, post #51 is the more interesting post:
"Herding cats is easy. Open a can of tuna at dinnertime and watch them all come running. Cats know how to show up for a guaranteed payday." ;)

Just feed the ABP pool players cat food and use a cat clicker for positive reinforcement and the ABP will be at our beck and call. :D :cool:
 
Mark, as usual, sees the world in a matter of fact, here's the reality of what's happening, light, and as usual, he's right about it. The biggest issue here, for negotiations, mediations, contracts, boycotts, or whatever, is simple: WHO and WHAT is the ABP?
If they make demands from Barry, as they have, and Barry meets the demands, what do they give him? Is there a set of bylaws that requires all of it members to play, or be sanctioned? Can the ABP deliver players or require that they do not play in a competing event, like other sanctioning groups?
The problem here, is that you have an amorphous group with a fluid membership list making demands, and making threats if their demands aren't met. What good things will they do if the demands ARE met? Does ABP have agreements with its members that will enable the ABP to keep its members in line and require that they all show up at the Open, or all boycott it?
None of this should have seen the light of day, it's a PR battle to see who can say the most crap about the other guy, which no one can ever win.....
SMART guys would have figured out that they could have built the legitimacy of the new organization by associating with the longest running tournament [US Open] and the strongest running organization [CSI] instead of trying to define itself in opposition to those entities. Funny how the boycott threat keeps popping up, over and over....
but who, exactly, is the ABP, who speaks for it, and what is it trying to do? If it gets what is demanded, what do they do for Barry? That's the missing piece, and until the ABP tells us what it CAN do, and delivers, they're really no different than what they accuse Barry of being: all hat, no cattle.....
just sayin.

Well said. Tap, tap, tap! :smile:
 
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