Marketing Faux Pas

Roadie

Banned
What sorts of marketing blunders do companies in the billiard industry commit trying to bolster themselves?

I have recently been turned off slightly by some of the claims made on behalf of Kamui products. I still respect their products and support of billiards but I think that their marketing copy could use some fresh perspective and a professional touch.

But this paragraph by another company struck me as slightly negative for the company presenting it as something to be proud of.

"2. William Cockerill

At the end of the eighteenth century, a spinner in Verviers would work with a single spindle, whereas in England, the Industrial Revolution had already resulted in machines being used for spinning wool. The British government threatened anyone who exported this technique with permanent exile, in order to protect the country’s monopoly.

Nevertheless, William Cockerill, a young British engineer, departed for Sweden in 1797 with the blueprints for his famous wool-spinning mill. However, no one seemed to be interested in his ideas, and he eventually ended up in Hamburg. There, he met a wool buyer from Simonis who realized the value of this technique, which had until then been unknown in continental Europe.

This pioneer in the field then came to Verviers with his family and signed a contract in which he agreed to produce spinning machines exclusively for his new employer. The first machine was constructed in 1797 in the building known as “Au Chat”, pictured here.

Success was not long in coming to Simonis, which, in addition to being able to compete with the English on level terms, had gained a major technological advantage over its continental competitors."


This is part of the company history of Simonis as published on this page; http://www.simoniscloth.com/about/history

The reason I see this as slightly negative is that many people regard Simonis cloth as the undisputed best and cite their longevity as one reason . No one can argue much with a company's experience that has been in the wool business for over 300 years. But what struck me as interesting and which I did not know is that the English wool industry had been using higher technology for quite a while before an Englishman decided to take it out of England. So this means that some of the wool firms now operating in England which have been in business as long as Simonis also have a longer experience with technology in wool production. Now of course one would expect that at some point they would all be about even in both tech and knowledge so that is a wash.

My question to the forum is why is Simonis regarded as the best when there are other firms with a similar amount of experience and tech? Is it simply because the brand has outmarketed the competition?

And lastly, what other kinds of marketing blunders can you find about billiard products? What sorts of claims are made that don't hold up or which reveal something about the maker which could be seen as a negative. To be fair I find that this passage about Simonis' history to be only slightly negative as it essentially ascribes the ascension of Simonis due in large part to acquiring the tech needed to be competitive. One must wonder how badly Mr. Cockerill was treated in England that he felt compelled to leave for greener pastures elsewhere on pain of permanent exile.

Let's see if there is any interest in a fresh topic on this forum :-)
 
You mean as in companies that hang on the coat tails of their last success story and eventually price themselves out of the market?

Top of the World Ma!
 
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I try to live by this:

No promises, no problems.

It's the promises that can never be fulfilled that get billiard marketers in trouble, imho. Just witness the lack of promised payoffs in some of these "guaranteed" tourneys. It is disgusting, damaging to the sport, and just plain old dishonest. period.

Just state what the hell you CAN actually do and NO MORE. Then do that. Then reivest those profits and increase the value of what CAN be done.

No promises, no problems.

Jeff Livingston
 
What sorts of marketing blunders do companies in the billiard industry commit trying to bolster themselves?

I have recently been turned off slightly by some of the claims made on behalf of Kamui products. I still respect their products and support of billiards but I think that their marketing copy could use some fresh perspective and a professional touch.

But this paragraph by another company struck me as slightly negative for the company presenting it as something to be proud of.

"2. William Cockerill

At the end of the eighteenth century, a spinner in Verviers would work with a single spindle, whereas in England, the Industrial Revolution had already resulted in machines being used for spinning wool. The British government threatened anyone who exported this technique with permanent exile, in order to protect the country’s monopoly.

Nevertheless, William Cockerill, a young British engineer, departed for Sweden in 1797 with the blueprints for his famous wool-spinning mill. However, no one seemed to be interested in his ideas, and he eventually ended up in Hamburg. There, he met a wool buyer from Simonis who realized the value of this technique, which had until then been unknown in continental Europe.

This pioneer in the field then came to Verviers with his family and signed a contract in which he agreed to produce spinning machines exclusively for his new employer. The first machine was constructed in 1797 in the building known as “Au Chat”, pictured here.

Success was not long in coming to Simonis, which, in addition to being able to compete with the English on level terms, had gained a major technological advantage over its continental competitors."


This is part of the company history of Simonis as published on this page; http://www.simoniscloth.com/about/history

The reason I see this as slightly negative is that many people regard Simonis cloth as the undisputed best and cite their longevity as one reason . No one can argue much with a company's experience that has been in the wool business for over 300 years. But what struck me as interesting and which I did not know is that the English wool industry had been using higher technology for quite a while before an Englishman decided to take it out of England. So this means that some of the wool firms now operating in England which have been in business as long as Simonis also have a longer experience with technology in wool production. Now of course one would expect that at some point they would all be about even in both tech and knowledge so that is a wash.

My question to the forum is why is Simonis regarded as the best when there are other firms with a similar amount of experience and tech? Is it simply because the brand has outmarketed the competition?

And lastly, what other kinds of marketing blunders can you find about billiard products? What sorts of claims are made that don't hold up or which reveal something about the maker which could be seen as a negative. To be fair I find that this passage about Simonis' history to be only slightly negative as it essentially ascribes the ascension of Simonis due in large part to acquiring the tech needed to be competitive. One must wonder how badly Mr. Cockerill was treated in England that he felt compelled to leave for greener pastures elsewhere on pain of permanent exile.

Let's see if there is any interest in a fresh topic on this forum :-)


You say this means some other companys in England have been operating longer. How does the story say that, it does not mention any other company by name. Maybe every company in England in the wool business then have since went out of business, there is nothing in the story that touts any other company. What it says is that he left England with his blueprints went to Sweden where existing companys at the time did not take on that guy and his ideas so he came to Germany/Simonis who took him on and they have been in business since then and now here we are...

In response to open press laws - I will state that I have Simonis cloth on my table.
 
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My question to the forum is why is Simonis regarded as the best when there are other firms with a similar amount of experience and tech? Is it simply because the brand has outmarketed the competition?

No, it's for the same reason one poolplayer can convince another poolplayer that he needs the 7-and-out AND the breaks then robs him of the cheese. Poolplayers as a whole aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Look at the prices we pay for an over-sized dowel rod. Some I have seen in the Wanted/For Sale section running into the six-figure mark.
Then there's the $25 cube of chalk. $8.00 for a thin sliver of plastic in which to set pool balls on (MagicRack). $15 to $20 for a very small hunk of leather to put onto the end of our over-sized dowel rods. Us poolplayers (yeah, I'm as guilty as the rest of you) are an easy mark for marketers. We always wanna jump onto the latest and greatest gadget out there to stay ahead of the rest of the pack. Simonis is no more guilty of improper marketing stratagies as a lot of products out there. After all, when it comes down to it, the consumers are equally the guilty parties for being gullible enough to fall for the marketing stratagies.

JMHO.

Maniac
 
You say this means some other companys in England have been operating longer. How does the story say that, it does not mention any other company by name. Maybe every company in England in the wool business then have since went out of business, there is nothing in the story that touts any other company. What it says is that he left England with his blueprints went to Sweden where existing companys at the time did not take on that guy and his ideas so he came to Germany/Simonis who took him on and they have been in business since then and now here we are...

In response to open press laws - I will state that I have Simonis cloth on my table.

I forgot to say that other companies who make billiard cloth also claim to have been in the wool business as long as Simonis. I simply made an assumption that some of them can probably trace their heritage back as far as Simonis and if so then they had the tech first.
 
No, it's for the same reason one poolplayer can convince another poolplayer that he needs the 7-and-out AND the breaks then robs him of the cheese. Poolplayers as a whole aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Look at the prices we pay for an over-sized dowel rod. Some I have seen in the Wanted/For Sale section running into the six-figure mark.
Then there's the $25 cube of chalk. $8.00 for a thin sliver of plastic in which to set pool balls on (MagicRack). $15 to $20 for a very small hunk of leather to put onto the end of our over-sized dowel rods. Us poolplayers (yeah, I'm as guilty as the rest of you) are an easy mark for marketers. We always wanna jump onto the latest and greatest gadget out there to stay ahead of the rest of the pack. Simonis is no more guilty of improper marketing stratagies as a lot of products out there. After all, when it comes down to it, the consumers are equally the guilty parties for being gullible enough to fall for the marketing stratagies.

JMHO.

Maniac

Oh be nice. I do think that most people in the industry are not out to scam anyone. I believe that most who invent or make things in this business really believe that their widget is the best one out there and worth every penny.

I think that pool player are actually sharper than the general population. Sure we purchase a lot of toys but we don't generally go for as much snake oil as the average non pool playing consumer.

This thread hopefully will produce some marketing gaffes. Does not seem to be heading that direction but who knows.
 
The golf industry reigns supreme in convincing golfers to buy the latest and the greatest. They can give the Billiards industry the 7 out and rob them.
 
The golf industry reigns supreme in convincing golfers to buy the latest and the greatest. They can give the Billiards industry the 7 out and rob them.

That's what I was going to say.

Golfers take the cake when it comes to gullibility about the "latest and greatest" technology crap. I play irons I bought in 2003, and a driver I bought in 2008. I still go out and shoot 70 while beating the pants off people who "upgrade" their clubs every year. Indians and arrows or something like that.
 
That's what I was going to say.

Golfers take the cake when it comes to gullibility about the "latest and greatest" technology crap. I play irons I bought in 2003, and a driver I bought in 2008. I still go out and shoot 70 while beating the pants off people who "upgrade" their clubs every year. Indians and arrows or something like that.

I was on the tee box with 3 other golfers and they were comparing the latest and greatest drivers they had all bragging about the 3 and 4 hundred they paid for them. They all hit their balls about 250 yards or so and I crushed one right in the middle of the fairway about 300 yards turned around and held my driver up and said "20 bucks at Walmart"
True story. I will add that at a mile high we get about 10 percent more carry.
 
The golf industry reigns supreme in convincing golfers to buy the latest and the greatest

You got that right Bud. I live in a city that barely supports one pool hall yet
there are several golf shops that seems to doing good.
Funny thing is, where I live, golf has a very short season. Think Canada.
8 months of winter and 4 months of poor skating weather.

Dumb a sses even curl in the summer.
 
I'd venture a guess that calling potential customers "dumb asses" might be a marketing faux pas.

Jeff Livingston
 
I try to live by this:

No promises, no problems.

It's the promises that can never be fulfilled that get billiard marketers in trouble, imho.

We talked about this in a previously related thread a few weeks ago in regards to expectations.
 
Marketing in the pool world is childs play compared to things like automobile's, golf, fishing, and my favorite....cigarettes. Imagine selling a product that kills your customers....and the customers know it...but still buy it anyway. That my friend is selling. No one in pool has a clue compared to that.

Kamui's marketing makes me shake my head sometimes with certain claims but they do make a hell of a product in their tips and its one I believe in. I dont care what mumbo jumbo is in the brochure I know its good stuff based on personal experience.

One thing to consider though....how many threads about Moori or Tiger have there been in the last few months? Something is working for Kamui.
 
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