Gosh, this sounds like a great cause for some group that is supposed to represent the best in the sport to take on.
Bring on the press releases!
Bring on the press releases!
Dragon World 14.1 Tournament, is still the World 14.1 Championships
- Thread starter maxeberle
- Start date
Not really sure I would define the WPA as an arbitrary group sanctioned be NONE of the players.
I don't think anyone agrees with every decision that the WPA makes, and I know that there were other things that went into this decision.
Mike
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk
I don't think anyone agrees with every decision that the WPA makes, and I know that there were other things that went into this decision.
Mike
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk
list the top 5 that don't start with a dollar sign...$$$$
I'm hoping either Jerry or Mike could provide me with directions and entrance requirements for the 2011 WPA world 14.1 championships...
where will it be held?
when?
I mean going to all this trouble to shut down the competition.. you must have something spectacular to offer as an alternative... right??
200G added prize pool... I can't wait ...let me know where to sign up for the REAL 2011 championships
where will it be held?
when?
I mean going to all this trouble to shut down the competition.. you must have something spectacular to offer as an alternative... right??
200G added prize pool... I can't wait ...let me know where to sign up for the REAL 2011 championships
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Which competition are we trying to shut down? The press release that was posted on the site was from the WPA. Neither Jerry or I wrote it. We simply posted it, as well as the response from Max.
If you have a bone to pick, it is with the WPA. We don't make decisions for the WPA and in fact, we disagree with many decisions that they make.
Mike
If you have a bone to pick, it is with the WPA. We don't make decisions for the WPA and in fact, we disagree with many decisions that they make.
Mike
And if there was a WPA sanctioned World 14.1 tournament, you would not sign up for it. You would earn your spot through your local federation.
Mike
Mike
and the qualifiers for the 2011 world championships will begin when?
if only 1 guy is calling his tourney the "world" championships where is the beef??
when 30 world champs are arguing.. then you have a point..
name every player who claims to be the 2010 world 14.1 champion who is NOT named Oliver Orttman
the WPA is creating a problem where none existed before
14.1
Softshot -
It seems you are missing the point.
As I see it, there are criteria to calling an event a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.
When that title is in use, the winner should be able to expect certain things - one of which is going down in the record book.
When there are no established criteria - then anyone anywhere can have a world championship.
I understand what you are saying, since there are no 14.1 World Championship in the works (that I know of).
But - in the past there has been a lot of abuse. And the WPA needs to stop the confusion. No legitimate group will go forward to have 14.1 World Championship if there is an 'unofficial' one going on.
The WPA position just makes sense if you study the underlying facts.
I still think the real question is why did Dragon Promotions help create this confusion. All of this could have been avoided. Why does this have to be called a WORLD event? This is really a US event - there are very few from overseas - which a sanctioned event would probably get.
I am not trying to argue with anyone. But how in the world do you expect Pool and Billiards to get any respect when you can go out and have a world championship and just pull players out of the stands to play?
Sorry - it just does not make sense for the long term health of the industry.
The solution would have been to call this event something else. (North American 14.1 Championship??)
Mark Griffin
Softshot -
It seems you are missing the point.
As I see it, there are criteria to calling an event a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.
When that title is in use, the winner should be able to expect certain things - one of which is going down in the record book.
When there are no established criteria - then anyone anywhere can have a world championship.
I understand what you are saying, since there are no 14.1 World Championship in the works (that I know of).
But - in the past there has been a lot of abuse. And the WPA needs to stop the confusion. No legitimate group will go forward to have 14.1 World Championship if there is an 'unofficial' one going on.
The WPA position just makes sense if you study the underlying facts.
I still think the real question is why did Dragon Promotions help create this confusion. All of this could have been avoided. Why does this have to be called a WORLD event? This is really a US event - there are very few from overseas - which a sanctioned event would probably get.
I am not trying to argue with anyone. But how in the world do you expect Pool and Billiards to get any respect when you can go out and have a world championship and just pull players out of the stands to play?
Sorry - it just does not make sense for the long term health of the industry.
The solution would have been to call this event something else. (North American 14.1 Championship??)
Mark Griffin
Couldnt they just recognize the DP tournament and its champion as the official unofficial World Champion. As in recognize and record it even though it is unsanctioned? There are no other 14.1 championship tournaments out there that meets the WPAs 'requirements', and until there is, the WPA should recognize and record that there was an successful attempt made by a particular promotion to crown a champion for 2009 and 2011, that were shy of meeting the requirements, and that no other tournament came close, hence officially the unofficial championship.
Also, can someone answer the question I have below about recognizing former Qatar Open Champs as WPC?
Also, can someone answer the question I have below about recognizing former Qatar Open Champs as WPC?
Ray Martin WORLD CHAMPION
Mike Sigel WORLD CHAMPION
Oliver Orttman WORLD CHAMPION
Willie Mosconi WORLD CHAMPION
Irving Crane WORLD CHAMPION
Ralph Greenleaf WORLD CHAMPION
oh wait.. a few rich guys didn't sign off on any of those.. lets kick them all out of the hall of fame..
long term health???? i.e Yen Makabenta didn't sign off and since we don't want him murdering anyone else.. lets just cower in the corner
none of you represent anything except your own self interest..
you can complain about the title world champion when you have a competing event to take it's place .....until then .. you got nothing but bullshit
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OK, now it is obvious that you are just trolling for attention.
No one said anything about kicking anyone out of the Hall of Fame.
The comment about Makabenta was uncalled for and unrelated to what we are discussing.
When you would like to read this entire thread so that you have some idea what you are talking about, then we can go back to debating this.
Mike (Not a member of the WPA board and not a decision maker as to which events are sanctioned)
No one said anything about kicking anyone out of the Hall of Fame.
The comment about Makabenta was uncalled for and unrelated to what we are discussing.
When you would like to read this entire thread so that you have some idea what you are talking about, then we can go back to debating this.
Mike (Not a member of the WPA board and not a decision maker as to which events are sanctioned)
of course you have to kick them out... they won unsanctioned world championships.. therefore they are not world champions
Makabenta made his own bed.. if you choose to ignore it.. that's your own fault
you have enough pull to proclaim the winner of the DP event as world champion... put it on the AZ front page... history will remember the winner as world champ even if the WPA doesn't .. backdoor politics say you won't but never say you can't
bottom line until there is a competing event vying for the title world champion..none of this amounts to anything but politics
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14.1
Softshot-
Please don't get so angry over this.
You are getting off the track with some of your comments.
This thread was only about the current 14.1 event.
Azbilliards can call any event world championship that they want - but that does not make them a world champion. They would not be in the record books and azbiliards press release would quickly be forgotten.
I am not sure what you mean with your list of 'world champions' - I don't know where that title (or list) comes from. I am thinking most of those are US champions. I might be wrong because I am not that up to speed on some pool history.
But - let's keep this civil.
Mark griffin
Softshot-
Please don't get so angry over this.
You are getting off the track with some of your comments.
This thread was only about the current 14.1 event.
Azbilliards can call any event world championship that they want - but that does not make them a world champion. They would not be in the record books and azbiliards press release would quickly be forgotten.
I am not sure what you mean with your list of 'world champions' - I don't know where that title (or list) comes from. I am thinking most of those are US champions. I might be wrong because I am not that up to speed on some pool history.
But - let's keep this civil.
Mark griffin
ok I'll distill my entire argument down to this singular statement
"you can complain about the title "World Straight Pool Champion" when you have an equal competing event to take it's place"
until then what is your point???
14.1
Soft shot-
You seem to be making this a discussion between ME and calling an event a world championship.
I don't make the rules. I am not going to have a competing event.
But that is NOT what we are talking about - so the point is:
There are rules to be a world event. It has nothing to do with 'me' or my rules.
It seems we are just not going to agree. No big deal- since we are both just spectators.
Mark griffin
Soft shot-
You seem to be making this a discussion between ME and calling an event a world championship.
I don't make the rules. I am not going to have a competing event.
But that is NOT what we are talking about - so the point is:
There are rules to be a world event. It has nothing to do with 'me' or my rules.
It seems we are just not going to agree. No big deal- since we are both just spectators.
Mark griffin
Pretty sure the point has been made by several people. You just refuse to acknowledge it.
Can I hold a World Bank Pool Championship with $5000 added because no one else is doing one? According to you I can. Whether you accept it or not the WPA is the sanctioning body for World Championships. Personally I have heard so many players claim the title it doesnt mean anything to me anymore. Show me a US Open win and I'll pay attention. It's a known quantity which is what the WPA is attempting to create.
Whoever wins in NJ should be proud because they beat a solid field of players but it isn't a World Championship no matter what sideways logic you choose to dispute that fact with.
One thing we cant do is point our fingers at the PLAYERS for the reason of pools "50 years decline" or blame them for the "state of the game today". That is ridiculous Mr Forsyth. Players must do what they do best. Play the game. At the same time as human beings must support and take care of their families in the best way they can.
For you to be attacking and blaming players for the ills of the pool economy is simply asinine.
In this day and age when there is a movement to dissolve pensions, medical coverage, and property value you want players to boycott events that a governing body doesnt sanction? Is that governing body ready to protect the players it so deems that they are fighting for. Does it intend to set up a pension fund or health benefits? Its true for improvement and justice there always must be sacrifice but first it must come from organized leadership.
We live in different times. The contradictions abound in this world.
Is the World Series in Major League Baseball a true World Series? I dont think so. Is the World Series of Poker able to determine who the world champ of the green felt is? Lets not even go into Boxing.
Pool has its own peculiarities and contradictions. If you want to find the perfect solution for resolving these contradictions fine. But blaming the one group that gives the only reason to attend these events and giving it any credence is not productive.
For you to be attacking and blaming players for the ills of the pool economy is simply asinine.
In this day and age when there is a movement to dissolve pensions, medical coverage, and property value you want players to boycott events that a governing body doesnt sanction? Is that governing body ready to protect the players it so deems that they are fighting for. Does it intend to set up a pension fund or health benefits? Its true for improvement and justice there always must be sacrifice but first it must come from organized leadership.
We live in different times. The contradictions abound in this world.
Is the World Series in Major League Baseball a true World Series? I dont think so. Is the World Series of Poker able to determine who the world champ of the green felt is? Lets not even go into Boxing.
Pool has its own peculiarities and contradictions. If you want to find the perfect solution for resolving these contradictions fine. But blaming the one group that gives the only reason to attend these events and giving it any credence is not productive.
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I definitely empathize with your stance, Mr. Yobagua! :smile:
Again, as it pertains to the United States, I believe the BCA is the one to blame for not helping to advance professional pool as opposed to the players themselves. To place blame on the pool players would be like calling pool players "scabs," similar to a labor-versus-management uprising, if they compete in a non-WPA-sanctioned tournament.
As the representative entity for North America to the WPA, it is the BCA's responsibility to take an active role in professional pool. Instead, they have been crawfishing for several years now in this regard. Why have a BCA that is not actively involved? It doesn't make any sense. If the BCA organization's mission is solely for its industry members' interests, then a new representative entity to the WPA dedicated to professional pool needs to be established.
I must say, though, that some of the opinions expressed in this thread are very persuasive about calling an event a "world" tournament. In essence, the WPA is establishing brand-name recognition for what should be considered a "world" championship. Now I understand this a little better, and it makes sense.
This is what makes AzBilliards "Discussion" Forum a good read: an exchange of opinions and a sharing of thoughts. I've learned a few things from this thread, reading it this morning, that I did not know before.
AzBilliards publishes the latest pool news on their Main Page in a neutral or bipartisan manner. This fact right here is why, IMO, it is the premier pool news source on the Internet. Whether they agree with a pool political happening or not, AzBilliards brings the latest news to the forefront.
That, my friends, is journalism at its finest. :yes:
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Can you blame the addict who continues to put a needle in his arm? Until the needle is tossed away for good, the patient remains sick (and pool players persist without a decent payday)...