I've heard that argument before but I disagree. I think bad equipment brings more of an element of luck into the game. You hit a great shot, catch a dead rail, and you're stuck. It does help equalize poor players and good players.
2011 APA National Masters in Vegas
- Thread starter Genie8
- Start date
I've heard that argument before but I disagree. I think bad equipment brings more of an element of luck into the game. You hit a great shot, catch a dead rail, and you're stuck. It does help equalize poor players and good players.
Ahem...Posted by YOU..."I would LOVE to make a bet that APA as a company takes in more than $30,000,00 in revenue". Everybody is entitled to an opinion. Mine happens to be based on fact. I'm happy to "let it go". On the other hand...while you cannot prove anything, I can provide the "proof" to decide the outcome of the bet...so the ball is still in your court. 
I'll certainly understand if you defer...as play4$ has.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I'll certainly understand if you defer...as play4$ has.Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
it never ceases to amaze me that every time the apa is mentioned the nunber of people that come out of the woodwork and jump on the apa bashing bandwagon.
i never hear people *****ing about how much bcapl, tap venea, napa or any other league makes.
i dont know about the areas all of you live in but the apa fees are pretty reasonable here. in fact i pay 1.00 a night less in the apa than i paid to play bcapl here 5 years ago. i also pay apa 3.00 a night less than i do to play in the napa league i just joined. you dont see me come on here *****ing about how much more napa charges than apa or how much the lo is making. if i had a problem with their fees i would not have joined.
i am curious as to what kind of tables all the other areas play on . do all of you play on nothing but diamonds all the time? does every other league and all apa leagues except memphis play on diamonds? if so i could understand you complaining about playing on lowly valleys while in vegas.
i play for 5 different teams. we play at 3 pool halls and several bars. every table is a valley. i would prefer to play my most important matches of the year on the same type of tables i play all year long.
i never hear people *****ing about how much bcapl, tap venea, napa or any other league makes.
i dont know about the areas all of you live in but the apa fees are pretty reasonable here. in fact i pay 1.00 a night less in the apa than i paid to play bcapl here 5 years ago. i also pay apa 3.00 a night less than i do to play in the napa league i just joined. you dont see me come on here *****ing about how much more napa charges than apa or how much the lo is making. if i had a problem with their fees i would not have joined.
i am curious as to what kind of tables all the other areas play on . do all of you play on nothing but diamonds all the time? does every other league and all apa leagues except memphis play on diamonds? if so i could understand you complaining about playing on lowly valleys while in vegas.
i play for 5 different teams. we play at 3 pool halls and several bars. every table is a valley. i would prefer to play my most important matches of the year on the same type of tables i play all year long.
Right on 'rida~
If the other leagues could make the same money as the APA, they gladly would. It's a business. You can't hate a business for making money, that's its job.
You can hate them for not reinvesting it, and refusing to improve though. Having beat up valleys for tournaments probably falls in that category. In which case, just leave the league and don't give them your money. That will eventually fix their 'profit problem'.
All this diamonds vs. valley argument... It's funny how our minds have gotten twisted into accepting barboxes as a legit venue for serious pool, whether it be league or 1v1. Imagine telling mosconi or greenleaf people would be playing short races for tens of thousands of dollars on 7 footers... they'd laugh and say "you play the championships on these toy tables? Stop joking, where do you really play?" ...the fact that they're beat up tables is a travesty by itself, but really, once you're playing on a mini table, what's it matter?
If the other leagues could make the same money as the APA, they gladly would. It's a business. You can't hate a business for making money, that's its job.
You can hate them for not reinvesting it, and refusing to improve though. Having beat up valleys for tournaments probably falls in that category. In which case, just leave the league and don't give them your money. That will eventually fix their 'profit problem'.
All this diamonds vs. valley argument... It's funny how our minds have gotten twisted into accepting barboxes as a legit venue for serious pool, whether it be league or 1v1. Imagine telling mosconi or greenleaf people would be playing short races for tens of thousands of dollars on 7 footers... they'd laugh and say "you play the championships on these toy tables? Stop joking, where do you really play?" ...the fact that they're beat up tables is a travesty by itself, but really, once you're playing on a mini table, what's it matter?
I'm an apa player, can I get that spot?
Well, pardon me for this interruption, but there's a player in my neck of the woods named Stuey who was a champion miniature golfer. His sidekick is Timmy Crown. Together, they made strong pool duo and bet it as high as the Georgia pine. Those in my area know who these two are if they've been around pool for a spell.
I do believe there is a strong connection with hand and eye coordination that allows pool players to excel in other sports. Heck, many pool players actually are scratch golfers.
Be nice to our Justadub, plaing4$. He's one of the good guys on the forum. :smile:
I see your point, but here's how it boils down for me at least. Either pool is a recreational game or it's a sport.
For the majority of Americans, pool is a social game, a recreational activity that allows people from all walks of life to socialize and have fun. In fact, most of the league players in my area don't even know who Efren Reyes is. Some of them actually play with a house cue. They're not into pool for the same reasons that some readers on this forum might be.
I don't care if it's TAP, APA, BCAPL, or any of the other leagues in the States. They are the biggest pull for pool in America, bar none. In fact, when I used to shoot pool regularly, it was the leagues that gave me the most pleasure in my entire life when it came to pool.
The professional pool circuit today has one tire in the mud, but those who do play in pro competitions or go to the tournaments, they will be afforded an opportunity to see good play.
In sum, everybody has a different reason why they are enthusiastic about pool. Me, I'm a railbird now. I don't play anymore. I still enjoy pool for what it has to offer from time to time, though it is beginning to be less important in my life today than it was five years ago. I attribute that to pool politics and the fact that, believe it or not, I discovered there's more to life than pool. Wow! Never thought I'd say it, but I did.
Bottom line, pool should be fun, whether you're a salamander, a shortstop, a ball banger, a social shooter, a league player, an amateur, a weekend warrior, a railbird, or a pro player.
When I met Mosconi in 1965, he was actually on tour promoting bar tables for Montgomery Wards. When asked why, he responded that now with the bar table, businesses that don't have room room for a 4 1/2 x 9 or even a 4 x 8 can now offer their patrons the opportunity to play pool. The same for folks who lack space for a larger table in their homes. He predicted that bar tables would create a resurgence of interest in pool not seen for many years, and he was correct.
Hey now... firing across the bow at me, huh?
I'm a nit, yay!Glad I can get you so fired up.
Guess what, you're right. I am a 4 in 9-ball, and a 5 in 8-ball, and I suck at them both. Although I only play on 9-footers... you see, APA is only played on 9-footers in this out-in-the-middle-of-nowhere place that I live. Only one place within a hundred miles to play on 7 footers. Oooooh, stop scaring me, making me play on a 9-footer.
So your offer would be quite generous, if I were to be a gambler. The reason I'm not isn't as you quoted. I don't give a damn if people gamble one bit, and have a little myself in certain situations. I don't gamble at pool because
A - As I mentioned, I suck at pool
B - I am not in a position financially to be gambling for more than a beer or something like that.
I'm really glad you know how all those "high-level" players like you feel about APA. You must spend a lot of time talking about it. Talking about something you hate and despise, a fine way to spend your time.
You come on here and spout and spew, you must have a miserable life to react so negatively and frequently. That's your issue, I see this forum has your back up. That must make you popular in the gambling world, being so easy to get a reaction out of.
I can come on here and talk about pool as much as I'd like, even as a lowly beginner who sucks, and handle myself quite nicely. Just because I'm a beginner at pool doesn't make me a beginner at life... "son" .... I've been around a little, and your attitude isn't new to me.
The APA is successful and you really hate that fact. Poor you. It brings in thousands of people to this game of ours (your game and mine, sorry about that) that wouldn't have played otherwise. That is a good thing. That helps keep pool rooms open. That helps keep equipment manufacturers in business. And that helps generate more gamblers that you so desperately want.
There is a lot to playing pool, not just the parts you want. The APA is a fine way for people to get started in this game, and if they are good enough, or motivated enough they can move on to bigger and higher levels of play. For you to keep pi$$ing on them is childish... "son"...
Bottom line, don't like it, don't play it. Don't complain about it if you don't play it. You don't know as much as you think you know about APA, and the fact that people here have called you on it has you riled up pretty good.
Oh yeah, glad you like my equipment, too. Again, real adult commentary from you. I'm kinda proud of the stuff I'm carrying, because it's good for me, it's well made, and it's better than the stuff I had before. I paid for it with my payouts from APA, too. And as many people here will tell you (people who would gladly give YOU the 6 and the breaks, and like it) it ain't the equipment... "son..."
APA cashing in as big as possible while they had the chance
Back to the original issue, my team and I were at the APA Masters in Vegas. It was our first time in the big show and we were very disappointed. The cities at Valley Forge (to get to Vegas) was a much better, classier, more prestigious production.
The Vegas event, for Masters at least, seemed somewhat insulting. From the cramped playing area, to the poor equipment, to the $1 per game to play even the actual tournament match, to the constant attack of people to sell you raffle tickets, to the brackets board that only Einstein could follow. It clearly was about only one thing, the APA cashing in as big as possible while they had the chance off their members and the family and friends of their members.
If the event were sponsored by the Riviera directly, or some other company, I might expect that, but when it is an APA event I would expect more consideration for the sport and its players. If the APA won’t do that, who will?
For those who live in the Philly area one possible answer is the APL. Maybe if droves of us make the switch the APA will begin to listen.
APL Greater Philadelphia RegionPO Box 603
Downingtown, PA 19335
http://www.amateurpoolleague.com/teamsignupform.asp
Joe Ferris
League Operator
Office: 610-269-8302
Fax: 610-269-5608
joeferris@amateurpoolleague.com
Back to the original issue, my team and I were at the APA Masters in Vegas. It was our first time in the big show and we were very disappointed. The cities at Valley Forge (to get to Vegas) was a much better, classier, more prestigious production.
The Vegas event, for Masters at least, seemed somewhat insulting. From the cramped playing area, to the poor equipment, to the $1 per game to play even the actual tournament match, to the constant attack of people to sell you raffle tickets, to the brackets board that only Einstein could follow. It clearly was about only one thing, the APA cashing in as big as possible while they had the chance off their members and the family and friends of their members.
If the event were sponsored by the Riviera directly, or some other company, I might expect that, but when it is an APA event I would expect more consideration for the sport and its players. If the APA won’t do that, who will?
For those who live in the Philly area one possible answer is the APL. Maybe if droves of us make the switch the APA will begin to listen.
APL Greater Philadelphia RegionPO Box 603
Downingtown, PA 19335
http://www.amateurpoolleague.com/teamsignupform.asp
Joe Ferris
League Operator
Office: 610-269-8302
Fax: 610-269-5608
joeferris@amateurpoolleague.com
Gee thanks for the advice. I never said my life was better than yours, and quite likely isn't. Remember, I'm the one who said he isn't in a place financially to be gambling on pool...
I plan on playing in some regional events at some point, given the time and resources. I certainly want to go and watch, even if I don't play right away. There is a Joss Tour stop near here this October that I hope to go see, if I can swing it.
The shallow end of the pool is just fine for me, but I don't stay there. I play anyone who will play me in any of our rooms, and i try to learn. You were in my place once, too. You didn't start out being the world-beater that you currently are, and you probably weren't offering the 6 and the breaks when you were in your second year of playing this game, either. I'm happy with my progress for being a beginner, and I won't stop trying to get better. Even if I have to listen to knuckleheads who make fun of me. (Fortunately, I don't encounter that sort in person. It seems to be a forum kind of thing.)
I can and will participate on these forums, whether you like it or not. In the game of debate and banter, I'm a bit higher rated than a 4...
I plan on playing in some regional events at some point, given the time and resources. I certainly want to go and watch, even if I don't play right away. There is a Joss Tour stop near here this October that I hope to go see, if I can swing it.
The shallow end of the pool is just fine for me, but I don't stay there. I play anyone who will play me in any of our rooms, and i try to learn. You were in my place once, too. You didn't start out being the world-beater that you currently are, and you probably weren't offering the 6 and the breaks when you were in your second year of playing this game, either. I'm happy with my progress for being a beginner, and I won't stop trying to get better. Even if I have to listen to knuckleheads who make fun of me. (Fortunately, I don't encounter that sort in person. It seems to be a forum kind of thing.)
I can and will participate on these forums, whether you like it or not. In the game of debate and banter, I'm a bit higher rated than a 4...
The APA website boasts that they have 260,000 active members. A couple years ago, the site also mentioned that over 1,000,000 individuals have played in the APA. Doesn't this mean that some 700,000 players no longer play in APA? I'd love to see a poll asking players (who have played in more than one system) what national organization they like the best. Having played league pool since 1966 (LCPL, JSL, NPBA, MPA, VNEA, BCA and APA) including sixteen national tournaments, I prefer the World Standardized Rules, non-arbitrary handicaps, simple scoring systems and no sand-bagging.
Justadub, you're one of the best posters on this forum.
Playing4$ joined this forum 2 days ago, September 2, and he/she has over 20 posts. Enough said.
Besides, I'm sure you can give me the 4 and out.
Heck, Mike Davis gave me the 2 and out and all the breaks, and I still couldn't win.
Hey now... firing across the bow at me, huh?
Glad I can get you so fired up.
Guess what, you're right. I am a 4 in 9-ball, and a 5 in 8-ball, and I suck at them both. Although I only play on 9-footers... you see, APA is only played on 9-footers in this out-in-the-middle-of-nowhere place that I live. Only one place within a hundred miles to play on 7 footers. Oooooh, stop scaring me, making me play on a 9-footer.
So your offer would be quite generous, if I were to be a gambler. The reason I'm not isn't as you quoted. I don't give a damn if people gamble one bit, and have a little myself in certain situations. I don't gamble at pool because
A - As I mentioned, I suck at pool
B - I am not in a position financially to be gambling for more than a beer or something like that.
I'm really glad you know how all those "high-level" players like you feel about APA. You must spend a lot of time talking about it. Talking about something you hate and despise, a fine way to spend your time.
You come on here and spout and spew, you must have a miserable life to react so negatively and frequently. That's your issue, I see this forum has your back up. That must make you popular in the gambling world, being so easy to get a reaction out of.
I can come on here and talk about pool as much as I'd like, even as a lowly beginner who sucks, and handle myself quite nicely. Just because I'm a beginner at pool doesn't make me a beginner at life... "son" .... I've been around a little, and your attitude isn't new to me.
The APA is successful and you really hate that fact. Poor you. It brings in thousands of people to this game of ours (your game and mine, sorry about that) that wouldn't have played otherwise. That is a good thing. That helps keep pool rooms open. That helps keep equipment manufacturers in business. And that helps generate more gamblers that you so desperately want.
There is a lot to playing pool, not just the parts you want. The APA is a fine way for people to get started in this game, and if they are good enough, or motivated enough they can move on to bigger and higher levels of play. For you to keep pi$$ing on them is childish... "son"...
Bottom line, don't like it, don't play it. Don't complain about it if you don't play it. You don't know as much as you think you know about APA, and the fact that people here have called you on it has you riled up pretty good.
Oh yeah, glad you like my equipment, too. Again, real adult commentary from you. I'm kinda proud of the stuff I'm carrying, because it's good for me, it's well made, and it's better than the stuff I had before. I paid for it with my payouts from APA, too. And as many people here will tell you (people who would gladly give YOU the 6 and the breaks, and like it) it ain't the equipment... "son..."
Awesome post!!
KMRUNOUT
Justadub, you're one of the best posters on this forum.
Playing4$ joined this forum 2 days ago, September 2, and he/she has over 20 posts. Enough said.
Besides, I'm sure you can give me the 4 and out.
Heck, Mike Davis gave me the 2 and out and all the breaks, and I still couldn't win.
Funny stuff, JAM, thanks.
Don't worry, I fully realize our friend "joined" 2 days ago. For the 4th time, or 5th at this point. Perhaps more, he spawned several names over the course of a week not too long ago. His posting style is distinctive. (These guys never understand that. That's why it's easy to spot PocketPoint or SC5 when they re-appear.) Funny thing is, I can't remember the screen name he used when he went off the deep end the first time. I could look it up, but why bother. After all, I'm a nit.
That just sounds like smart money management to me. :thumbup:
Just remember to put the troll back under the bridge when you're done playing with him, Dub! :smile:
Player, you are really coming across as very immature. You certainly show that you *want* to be an adult, but it seems you don't really know what that means. It's funny how you totally misunderstood Justadub's post. He didn't say anything about his life being better than yours, although that is the classic defensive assumption. He took a guess at what you might be like based on your comments. There definitely was no comparison. If anything, it seemed that he was doing the exact opposite of equating himself with you. Why should he play in regional events? He just got through saying he was a 4/5 in the APA and thought his game sucked...did you miss that? I didn't hear him brag about a single thing. Your "adults" comment is just plain hilarious in the context of your post.
I don't know you at all. It might just be that your writing skills and reading comprehension never made it out of elementary school, and you're really a good guy. Perhaps also you have some issues from early life that leave you very reactionary and defensive, but you're really a good guy. Perhaps you're *really* into pool, and have your self esteem wrapped up in the quality of your game, and believe that everyone else does the same, but you're really a good guy. Hopefully I'm right...the alternative makes you out to be not such a great guy...
KMRUNOUT
Funny stuff, JAM, thanks.
Don't worry, I fully realize our friend "joined" 2 days ago. For the 4th time, or 5th at this point. Perhaps more, he spawned several names over the course of a week not too long ago. His posting style is distinctive. (These guys never understand that. That's why it's easy to spot PocketPoint or SC5 when they re-appear.) Funny thing is, I can't remember the screen name he used when he went off the deep end the first time. I could look it up, but why bother. After all, I'm a nit.
I think the fiend you are refering to is the same person who started this thread:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=236276
I think this will be his 8th account to be banned.