9ball rule question

[Mr. Wiggles]

Flippin.

The problem with this is that it is NOT the rule that the lowest numbered ball must be hit first. Read the WPA rule I quoted in post #18. I agree with your reasoning that "at the same time" is not the same thing as first. But the rule reads that it is a foul to contact any other object ball first. So according to the rule - and your reasoning - a split hit qualifies as good.

And why flip a coin over this aspect of the rules when it is common in all nature of matters to give the benefit of doubt to the shooter?

Read next sentence! Starts with seriously though. Thanks for your input and trying to almost agree with me. Kinda sorta. I can live with the rules and play by the rules but don't have to agree with the rules. And of course this is why rules are always changing. Almost yearly.

 

[Bob Jewett]

.. And of course this is why rules are always changing. Almost yearly.

While that was true in the past for some rule sets, the WPA has a 5-year cycle on rules updates for the World Standardized Rules. The last significant changes happened in January 2008 with a full rewrite of all of the rules and regulations. There have been more or less no changes since then. The next scheduled time for changes would be in January 2013.

 

[BasementDweller]

One little thing to add on this:

You guys that avoid these sorts of shots in order to avoid the tough call are selling yourself short. The pros do not avoid these shots. When you are looking at a potential runout and you see two ball that are positioned in such a manner that the split hit is going to be a possibility - do not rule it out. If you do, you are eliminating a shot that your opponent may very well utilize against you later on.

Practice these shots and you can get pretty comfortable with them. I used to avoid them....not anymore.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Take questionable hits?

One little thing to add on this:

You guys that avoid these sorts of shots in order to avoid the tough call are selling yourself short. The pros do not avoid these shots. When you are looking at a potential runout and you see two ball that are positioned in such a manner that the split hit is going to be a possibility - do not rule it out. If you do, you are eliminating a shot that your opponent may very well utilize against you later on.

Practice these shots and you can get pretty comfortable with them. I used to avoid them....not anymore.

I think most of the time we are talking of regular joes in league play and regular joes in tourneys, not pros. So you advocate taking questionable hits, knowing the ref will rule for the shooter because they cannot see or make the call because of the closeness of the hit? If you take ten of these shots over time, would you agree 2 or 3 may have actually been bad hits! And your fine with that? Shallow victory in my eyes.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Rules change.

While that was true in the past for some rule sets, the WPA has a 5-year cycle on rules updates for the World Standardized Rules. The last significant changes happened in January 2008 with a full rewrite of all of the rules and regulations. There have been more or less no changes since then. The next scheduled time for changes would be in January 2013.

Thanks Bob. Was really speaking of BCA rules and don't know how closely these two are entertwined. The AZ community is really fortunate to have guys like you and Randy G., Scott L., and other instructors and refs.etc. Buddy E. Is the only one I know personally and I bend his ear a little every time I see him. He may not admit it, but he loves it! Thanks again for being a contributor to this great forum.

 

[BasementDweller]

I think most of the time we are talking of regular joes in league play and regular joes in tourneys, not pros. So you advocate taking questionable hits, knowing the ref will rule for the shooter because they cannot see or make the call because of the closeness of the hit? If you take ten of these shots over time, would you agree 2 or 3 may have actually been bad hits! And your fine with that? Shallow victory in my eyes.

That's not exactly what I'm advocating. What I'm saying is - it's best that you learn how to handle balls that are tied up in these positions. It really doesn't take that much practice. I used to avoid them just to avoid the controversy, but after watching a lot of professional pool I realized that the pros do not avoid these types of hits. All you need to do is call someone over to watch the hit. 9 times out of 10 you can tell which ball is hit first. The 1 out of 10 that is difficult to call will go to to the shooter. That's just the way it is. I don't think there is some unwritten rule that implies the shooter should be afraid of taking these types of shots.

Now, I have seen a guy line up for a shot like this with the tourney director standing by to call the hit, only to see the player slam the shot as hard as he could to make the call very difficult. That, I would not advocate.

 

[tank69]

Yeah just like baseball, tie goes to runner. However, if the balls are that close together, there should be a third party watching the hit if it's a tournament or money game.

"the tie goes to the runner" is one of the biggest MYTHs in baseball, this is simply not true. Having been a baseball umpire for many years from kids to college to pro ball, there is no tie. The runner is either safe or out and neither the runner or fielder "gets a break" as this myth implies. I've seen very close plays and a good umpire will get it right 99% of the time. Same for pool, someone should be called over and have the hit watched. Whatever the referee states is fact.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Thanks Dweller.

That's not exactly what I'm advocating. What I'm saying is - it's best that you learn how to handle balls that are tied up in these positions. It really doesn't take that much practice. I used to avoid them just to avoid the controversy, but after watching a lot of professional pool I realized that the pros do not avoid these types of hits. All you need to do is call someone over to watch the hit. 9 times out of 10 you can tell which ball is hit first. The 1 out of 10 that is difficult to call will go to to the shooter. That's just the way it is. I don't think there is some unwritten rule that implies the shooter should be afraid of taking these types of shots.

Now, I have seen a guy line up for a shot like this with the tourney director standing by to call the hit, only to see the player slam the shot as hard as he could to make the call very difficult. That, I would not advocate.

Sounds like you indeed play with integrity.