Cheating on the 8 ball rack

8

8balllark

Registered
Alrighty Gentlemen

I don’t post much but have been lurking in the shadows around here long enough to know this topic might incur significant flaming.

However, with that said

Last night was a very frustrating league night,(8 ball) the team we played against all had been breaking a little to well if you know what I mean. Oh and we play in a rack your own league.

Each player was sinking no less than 4 balls on each players break. Now I have no issues with people who have the skill and know how, perhaps some secrets or just flat out having one of those nights that everything go's right. And it could have been that.

But at my level of play, an that’s not very high, when a team of all 5 guys are potting no less than 4 balls on each of the breaks? to me?

Something smells funny.

For a decent 8 ball brake I have been told to make sure the surrounding balls around the 8 and the head ball are always touching, no spaces.

Strike the head ball dead on and hopefully the QB bounces back a little and then sits mid table-ish, if the QB veers off left or right you know that either

A - your stroke was off and un-necessary English was put on the QB
OR
B - You simply did not hit the head ball dead on

I have heard that racking the head ball either above or below the spot will result in more pottage off the break but my experience is that nothing was consistent.


Now, im not looking to get into a conversation of the morals.

Yes my primary concern here would be to learn if there are any sure fire ways to cheat the break so that I can make sure my opponent is not cheating me.

Im no cheater, but I am the type that if I am getting cheated?...............well I cheat back twice as hard, and in this case I just have to find out how lol.

Yes its un-sportsman like, yes its of low brow mentality, yes im gonna have a special pit of fiery eternal damnation and blah blah blah.

If no one wants to participate in this conversation then it falls to the bottom of the forum quickly, and its done.

If there is anyone like myself who is sick of getting taken advantage of? Well, lets talk!!!!!
 
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I think it is generally wrong to believe that low-level players have rack-rigging skills above their playring skills.
 
Making 4 balls on the 8-Ball break is highly unusual in my opinion. I consider myself lucky if I make 1 or 2 balls on a break. To have every player making 4 balls or more on every break would make me suspicious too. Even the pros don't do that on a regular basis. Unfortunately, I wouldn't know how to rack them so as to cheat. Hope someone on this Forum is more knowledgeable in that respect. In summary, I think you're right in being suspicious.
 
Black-Balled said:
I think it is generally wrong to believe that low-level players have rack-rigging skills above their playring skills.
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I would agree. For myself, I'm not aware of any method of racking 8-ball that is more favorable to the breaker than simply getting them all frozen. But then again, I admittedly am confined to a pool backwater, so there are a lot of moves that I just haven't had the opportunity to encounter.

Question: Have you encountered that team before, so as to determine whether their breaking performance was out of character for them?
 
I don't know of any way to "rig" an 8-ball rack outside of leaving a gap between the 8 and the ball next to it, breaking from the side second or third ball back, and hoping the 8 goes in the opposite side. There's still a lot of luck in that though.

Were they all breaking from the same spot at the same speed? That could be the answer if it's the case.
 
There are a number of ways to rig an 8ball rack. The first 3 that come to mind are:

  • Tilting the rack so that more balls head towards the corner
  • leaving a space between the head ball and the second row to give a more square hit on a 2nd ball break
  • a combination of the above
  • you can compound this by pattern racking
 
8balllark said:
For a decent 8 ball brake I have been told to make sure the surrounding balls around the 8 and the head ball are always touching, no spaces.
...
Strike the head ball dead on and hopefully the QB bounces back a little and then sits mid table-ish.
...
Yes my primary concern here would be to learn if there are any sure fire ways to cheat the break so that I can make sure my opponent is not cheating me.
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You can try leaving a tiny gap between the 3rd and 4th rows to see if this is the same pattern you were seeing on your opponents rack. I'm no expert in fixing the rack but I believe it's either between 2/3 or 3/4 that you leave a tiny gap. Keep in mind that most places where "rack your own" is used the opponent has the right to inspect the rack and force the breaker to re-rack if it isn't tight.

I hit the second row square (not the ball on the footspot) shooting from 1 ball back from the headstring and 1 ball away from the side cushion. I get lots of action from the rack and hit between 20.5 - 22 mph according to BreakSpeed. Any faster and I find the balls drift together toward the same side as I break from making it hard to run out. If I hit softer I don't get enough force into the rack as I'm not striking it as fully as I would hitting the apex ball.

As far as squatting the cueball in the center of the table, you shoot from closer to the center of the table and hit with a little follow on the CB. It takes some practice but it will work. Unfortunately, in 8-ball, the CB gets knocked around more often.
 
Check the rack, which you're entitled to do, even with rack-your-own. Sheesh!
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Sure, and if I don’t know what im looking for then there is really no point in that now is there, hence the post Pushout, thanks for the contribution.


Making 4 balls on the 8-Ball break is highly unusual in my opinion. I consider myself lucky if I make 1 or 2 balls on a break. To have every player making 4 balls or more on every break would make me suspicious too. Even the pros don't do that on a regular basis. Unfortunately, I wouldn't know how to rack them so as to cheat. Hope someone on this Forum is more knowledgeable in that respect. In summary, I think you're right in being suspicious.
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Well at least I know im not total crazy lol, thanks

I would agree. For myself, I'm not aware of any method of racking 8-ball that is more favorable to the breaker than simply getting them all frozen. But then again, I admittedly am confined to a pool backwater, so there are a lot of moves that I just haven't had the opportunity to encounter.
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Exactly my current predicament as well

Question: Have you encountered that team before, so as to determine whether their breaking performance was out of character for them?
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Oh yes, played these guys last year several times, they never broke like that before. And not to sound racist but they all are of the same heritage and while at the table converse with each other in there native tongue . A league no no.
These guys are great shots (again for my level of play), but they are not above cheating and no way should be making those types of breaks at there level.

Were they all breaking from the same spot at the same speed? That could be the answer if it's the case.
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Yep, left side of the table, I would say around half way 4-5 balls width from the rail on the head string, each one of them from the same exact spot.

So then by leaving the head ball off the second row this would equate to more balls being potted off the break?. Or is this just an estimate that your chances go up?

And thanks to all for the good replies!
 
If you cross your toes and yell "WHERE'S THE BEEF!" while breaking, you'll have at least a 50/50 chance of making a ball. But don't tell anyone . . . :thumbup:

Seriously though, do a search for "Racking Secrets" by Joe Tucker.
 
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If they were making that many balls on that many breaks, it is a strong possibility that they were raking the head ball in front of the spot, believe me this makes a huge difference. After they rack, walk to the side of the table and line up the two diamonds and head ball, it will be easy to see if it is out too far. If the diamond is hard to see, set a piece of chalk on it, then walk to the other side and line them up, unless you are paying attention, they could be racking quite a bit off. Play the same game they are, rack yours ahead a little, they will get the message. In our league, we rack for each other, I rack the head ball on the spot but slightly back from perfect, it really cuts down making balls on the break, it does not always work, but it does make a big difference, I have done it for years. The rules are on the spot, not perfectly on the spot. If you have access to a table, rack each way 10 times and break them, and let us know if you could see a difference.
 
irock is dead on for making lots of balls on the 8ball rack... let me rack high and I will show you 4 consistently.......
 
If you cross your toes and yell "WHERE'S THE BEEF!" while breaking, you'll have at least a 50/50 chance of making a ball. But don't tell anyone . . .
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:thumbup: When im feeling rather randy prior to my Break I will quote something from like Paradise lost or the Pulp fiction Samuel Speech right before I break lol, freaks the opponents out, I highly recommend it for a good laugh. Good Sharking technique as well.

Seriously though, do a search for "Racking Secrets" by Joe Tucker.
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Will be checking tonight sir

If they were making that many balls on that many breaks, it is a strong possibility that they were raking the head ball in front of the spot, believe me this makes a huge difference. After they rack, walk to the side of the table and line up the two diamonds and head ball, it will be easy to see if it is out too far. If the diamond is hard to see, set a piece of chalk on it, then walk to the other side and line them up, unless you are paying attention, they could be racking quite a bit off. Play the same game they are, rack yours ahead a little, they will get the message. In our league, we rack for each other, I rack the head ball on the spot but slightly back from perfect, it really cuts down making balls on the break, it does not always work, but it does make a big difference, I have done it for years. The rules are on the spot, not perfectly on the spot. If you have access to a table, rack each way 10 times and break them, and let us know if you could see a difference.
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After the game will be attempting this tonight, thanks
 
irock said:
Do a lot of leagues play rack your own, I have never played in a league that does.
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Our ACS bar table 8 ball league plays rack your own. As much to speed up play as to eliminate any appearance of bad racking by the opponent. As for secrets to making more balls on the break, I have had no huge difference in racking them high. Of course my break sucks pretty bad no matter how they are racked.:smile:
On a separate note: If I made 4 balls on every break, you could fly Efren in and he can get broke.:thumbup:
 
Few Things to look for?

So you play in a rack your own league.
How do you rack your's?
I would like to know.

Can you question your opponents rack?

Ok

1.) Watch the footstring abuse. The rack should be on the footspot not ahead of it. If it is slightly back ...your advantage. But as stated by others in this thread, ahead of spot is advantageous to breaker.
2.) Back of triangle should be square with the short rail. Avoid tilted racks.
3.) Second Ball side break is an excellent controlled eight ball break. You would be wise to learn it.
4.) Ideallly all balls should be touching. Minimize spacing. On the flipside the spacing can be exploited.
 
7-footers or 9-footers? (Not that I know anything, but I'm curious and it hasn't been asked)
I play on 9's and only rarely see three balls on a break.

Interesting thread.
 
What percentage of either high or lows balls?
I don't know anything re pattern racking but if it is a higher percentage of
either suit, they might be pattern racking.
 
no way

I don't believe a word of it. I have seen 4 balls on an 8 ball break maybe 6 times in 30 years.............

BS

check my avatar......................

Kim
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
What percentage of either high or lows balls?
I don't know anything re pattern racking but if it is a higher percentage of
either suit, they might be pattern racking.
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My thoughts too. If they're making a lot of balls on the break and are NOT the run-out types of players, then they are actually doing you a favor by making that many balls on each break as there are sure to be some of your balls already pocketed when you get to the table AND less of theirs to get in your way for your run.

Maniac
 
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