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Mosconi on aiming .
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
- Start date
So this was Mosconi's AIMING SYSTEM?
He just puts the cueball contact point on the object ball contact point, no matter where the balls were located on the table.
That is simple enough. Now all of us can go out and run 525 balls without missing and we will just stop at 525 because we're tired.
Oh wait, he told us about spin induced throw on the object ball but he didn't say anything about squirt and swerve and good gracious what about those awful dirty balls and thin, worn,worn, cloth? Mercy sakes, what to do, what to do? :smile:
Thanks for video, Joey. I've never seen this one and it's always great to hear what the Master had to say, especially about aiming.
He just puts the cueball contact point on the object ball contact point, no matter where the balls were located on the table.
That is simple enough. Now all of us can go out and run 525 balls without missing and we will just stop at 525 because we're tired.
Oh wait, he told us about spin induced throw on the object ball but he didn't say anything about squirt and swerve and good gracious what about those awful dirty balls and thin, worn,worn, cloth? Mercy sakes, what to do, what to do? :smile:
Thanks for video, Joey. I've never seen this one and it's always great to hear what the Master had to say, especially about aiming.
So this was Mosconi's AIMING SYSTEM?
He just puts the cueball contact point on the object ball contact point, no matter where the balls were located on the table.
That is simple enough. Now all of us can go out and run 525 balls without missing and we will just stop at 525 because we're tired.
Oh wait, he told us about spin induced throw on the object ball but he didn't say anything about squirt and swerve and good gracious what about those awful dirty balls and thin, worn,worn, cloth? Mercy sakes, what to do, what to do? :smile:
Thanks for video, Joey. I've never seen this one and it's always great to hear what the Master had to say, especially about aiming.
I've never seen this one either. The uploader gets the credit in the world.
I might have to download it and burn it for his old sparring partner, Wayne Norcross. Wayne runs the tournaments at Stix in Rancho here. He's in his 70's and will still play bangers 60-no-count straight pool. :thumbup:
So this was Mosconi's AIMING SYSTEM?
He just puts the cueball contact point on the object ball contact point, no matter where the balls were located on the table.
That is simple enough. Now all of us can go out and run 525 balls without missing and we will just stop at 525 because we're tired.
Oh wait, he told us about spin induced throw on the object ball but he didn't say anything about squirt and swerve and good gracious what about those awful dirty balls and thin, worn,worn, cloth? Mercy sakes, what to do, what to do? :smile:
Thanks for video, Joey. I've never seen this one and it's always great to hear what the Master had to say, especially about aiming.
FYI - this is from 'Willie Mosconi's World of Pocket Billiards' circa 1980.
I'd venture to guess that at least 90% of top shotmakers aim/sight
this way.
As to "other effects" those are taken into account before you ever
take your shooting stance, or they better be.
Any one who doesn't understand you don't hit the OB using 1/2 tip
of english - the same place you do using center ball, can't be helped
by all the aiming systems in the world - IMNSHO.
Dale
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If more players just starting to play the game would follow this basic way to aim and USE NO SPIN OR SHOOT NO HARDER THAN IT TAKES TO MAKE THE BALL until they can pocket 10 balls or so there would be a lot more better than average players out the. You have to know how to make the ball first with center ball before you can get into all that cool stuff like spin, force follow, and draw. Johnnyt
I'm surprised that Willie would put out misleading information as he did on those straight in shots where he said english was throwing the object ball off and making it miss. He wasn't shooting the ball straight on, even though he said he was. On the second shot, where he said, "I hit that too good, " the ball went in the pocket because that was the only shot where he actually did hit it almost straight on. But on the other two, his cue is angled off to the right, which shifted the contact point to the right causing the ball to be cut to the left, thus missing the pocket. For evidence of this, just look at how his cue ball comes off to the right side of the object ball each time.
Roger
Roger
lol. Willie -- giving it away: "The Secret" to aiming for free. Not even asking $3.90 BECAUSE it is just that simple. No edges, no pivots, no grids, no shadows, lights, etc.
And here is the golden part, as put so simply by Dale: "As to 'other effects' those are taken into account before you ever take your shooting stance, or they better be."
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Willie would have approved. Pool is part science -- yes, no doubt. But pool is also part art, blending speed, spin, elevation, your tip, shaft, and all that stuff there on every single shot. That is why the aiming "systems" cannot work on their own and will always have missing components. You need to be an artiste. Willie was an artiste of the highest order
Lou Figueroa
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I agree. He really knew that spin induced throw existed and decided to exaggerate to get the viewer to believe him.
Opposite thing occurred during a low deflection shaft demo where some dude tried to show how squirt occurred with regular shafts and he miscues to make it look like it squirted a foot!
Aiming
It's great to see Willie and listen to his instruction. I remember seeing instruction from Irving Crane and thinking "he's not considering collision induced throw". I would respectfully argue that if a ball is being cut to the left, or to the right from the other side-with dead center ball- the contact point is not quite the same in each case.
It's great to see Willie and listen to his instruction. I remember seeing instruction from Irving Crane and thinking "he's not considering collision induced throw". I would respectfully argue that if a ball is being cut to the left, or to the right from the other side-with dead center ball- the contact point is not quite the same in each case.
Best to cut Willie some slack here. Collision induced throw was not really something players were aware of back then.
In his wonderful book "Banking With the Beard", Pages 5-6, Freddie the Beard recounts the time he had a chat with Irving Crane in 1964 at Johnston City, one in which Irving made it clear that he agreed with Mosconi in full with respect to the necessary contact point.
Both Willie and Irving, to a large extent, offered an early endorsement of what came to be known as the Ghost Ball Theory once demonstrated by Ray Martin in the early 1970's. Even then, Martin's theory did not demonstrate a full command of how collision-induced throw can affect shots.
Still, in the era of Mosconi and Crane, their advice on aiming did much more good than harm in helping amateurs to become better players. Similarly, in the 1970's, application of Ray Martin's ghost ball theories help countless amateurs become better players.
So let's go easy on the old masters ---- just this once.
In his wonderful book "Banking With the Beard", Pages 5-6, Freddie the Beard recounts the time he had a chat with Irving Crane in 1964 at Johnston City, one in which Irving made it clear that he agreed with Mosconi in full with respect to the necessary contact point.
Both Willie and Irving, to a large extent, offered an early endorsement of what came to be known as the Ghost Ball Theory once demonstrated by Ray Martin in the early 1970's. Even then, Martin's theory did not demonstrate a full command of how collision-induced throw can affect shots.
Still, in the era of Mosconi and Crane, their advice on aiming did much more good than harm in helping amateurs to become better players. Similarly, in the 1970's, application of Ray Martin's ghost ball theories help countless amateurs become better players.
So let's go easy on the old masters ---- just this once.
Willie's explanation for aiming was probably more about keeping it simple and easy in order to convey the concept. They certainly understood collision induced throw back then because in his instruction book Willie discussed how to throw frozen ball combinations into the pocket when they don't appear to be dead by cutting them rather than hitting them straight on.
lol. Willie -- giving it away: "The Secret" to aiming for free. Not even asking $3.90 BECAUSE it is just that simple. No edges, no pivots, no grids, no shadows, lights, etc.
And here is the golden part, as put so simply by Dale: "As to 'other effects' those are taken into account before you ever take your shooting stance, or they better be."
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Willie would have approved. Pool is part science -- yes, no doubt. But pool is also part art, blending speed, spin, elevation, your tip, shaft, and all that stuff there on every single shot. That is why the aiming "systems" cannot work on their own and will always have missing components. You need to be an artiste. Willie was an artiste of the highest order
Lou Figueroa
Oh, goody...a friendly aiming thread, as yet untarnished by MOST of the 'ASS' guy's........Can I play ?...
PS..I'm lonesome over here, being as JB, and his ASS guys seem to be in hiding from further embarassment..:thumbup:
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hmm
Yeah, friendly until you showed up. The only one doing anything embarrassing thus far in this thread would be you. Are you really this desperate to pick a fight? seriously dude?
Oh, goody...a friendly aiming thread, as yet untarnished by MOST of the 'ASS' guy's........Can I play ?...
PS..I'm lonesome over here, being as JB, and his ASS guys seem to be in hiding from further embarassment..:thumbup:
Yeah, friendly until you showed up. The only one doing anything embarrassing thus far in this thread would be you. Are you really this desperate to pick a fight? seriously dude?
Well, yes, he did show throwing combinations, but that does not mean he consciously understood contact induced throw. I know for the first several years I played I somehow believed that the cue ball to object ball contact was fundamentally different from object ball to object ball contact. (And it is different, but not so different as I believed.)
As mentioned above, it seems that Irving Crane did not believe in at least some kinds throw that we now know exist. His student, Mike Sigel, is on record as saying that throw does not exist.
Well, maybe you're right Bob, but if Willie and and the Deacon didn't know about collision induced throw perhaps there was no such thing back then because they sure didn't miss many balls.
