Wanted/For Sale Section to Change in New Year
- Thread starter Jerry Forsyth
- Start date
Well,
I just had a very nice chat with Jerry and here is the deal.
Azb is paying about 1k a day for their attorneys to deal with the lawsuits generated by the wfs section.
Who in their right mind would sue az due to a bad deal?
Think again, quite a few people are doing that. On top of that Jerry has to go to court due to these lawsuits.
Also disclaimers don't apply in a lot of states.
So, having said that, my thought is that people need to be responsible for their actions and be fully identified with ssn, address, the works. Azb can't be held responsible for a bad deal. I was shocked when Jerry told me that azb was being sued due to bad deals, that is insane.
The section is being destroyed by their own members and those guys need a wake up call.
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I just had a very nice chat with Jerry and here is the deal.
Azb is paying about 1k a day for their attorneys to deal with the lawsuits generated by the wfs section.
Who in their right mind would sue az due to a bad deal?
Think again, quite a few people are doing that. On top of that Jerry has to go to court due to these lawsuits.
Also disclaimers don't apply in a lot of states.
So, having said that, my thought is that people need to be responsible for their actions and be fully identified with ssn, address, the works. Azb can't be held responsible for a bad deal. I was shocked when Jerry told me that azb was being sued due to bad deals, that is insane.
The section is being destroyed by their own members and those guys need a wake up call.
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What a freaking shame. Who would do that? AZB has no part in the transaction.
Well then, if AZB decides to continue with a "Wanted/For Sale" section, they should restart it, and we should all have to re-register...our iTrader could transfer with us.
In the registration section (available only to AZB), we would have to enter our personal data, and electronically sign an agreement that AZB would not be held responsible or accountable in any manner for the transactions/posts that are submitted and responded to in the section.
Joe
wow, what a pile of bs for AZB ownership, come on people give ur head a shake, don't destroy AZB because of greed
Interesting bit of information...
Now the idea of limiting who can sell is going to get some attention.
Surely registration and fees can help but there will always be someone's interpretation of a deal gone bad.
Not sure of a good answer to keep AZB from having to be the plaintiff in court.
the target is NEW MERCHANDISE
i'd like to hear what % of the "deals gone bad" that ended up into lawsuits were NEW CUES or MERCHANDISE
everytime i see a deal gone bad that turns into a shitstorm on here, it's about a USED cue
ONLY individuals with used merchandise for sale will be able to post there in the New Year.
No new merchandise will be able to be sold there and certainly no mass marketing will be allowed to continue.
Guys,
I really wanted to talk to Jerry because I got so many calls from AZB members and pm's and I had to satisfy my curiosity.
Jerry did not go into details but he did not sound a happy camper with all this legal crap going on.
Also, the money is not a big issue for AZB, the problem is the accumulated pile of bills from AZB attorneys that AZB has to pay for.
Joe, to answer a comment you did, you can sign any disclaimers you want but if you are in a state where those disclaimers don't work, like Texas as an example, then AZB is sol.
The solution here is to have more information on the AZB users and held them responsible.
Meanwhile, the guys that have a bad deal, remove the lawsuits please so we can proceed around here? Please?
Thanks!
I really wanted to talk to Jerry because I got so many calls from AZB members and pm's and I had to satisfy my curiosity.
Jerry did not go into details but he did not sound a happy camper with all this legal crap going on.
Also, the money is not a big issue for AZB, the problem is the accumulated pile of bills from AZB attorneys that AZB has to pay for.
Joe, to answer a comment you did, you can sign any disclaimers you want but if you are in a state where those disclaimers don't work, like Texas as an example, then AZB is sol.
The solution here is to have more information on the AZB users and held them responsible.
Meanwhile, the guys that have a bad deal, remove the lawsuits please so we can proceed around here? Please?
Thanks!
Yeah, eBay tried that "we are only a venue" and "buyer beware" and terms of service thing forever and they were defending lawsuits like crazy and had actually figured that the fees and settlements were just a cost of business until they started doing exit polls as members quit the site and learned that the single most determining factor for people leaving their site as members (and thereby limiting their growth) was getting scammed. At that point they finally decided to do something about it, and did.
If every seller here was required to accept PayPal, and every buyer paid for their purchase with PayPal, funded by a credit card, the scams would stop cold. Nobody, would get scammed, nobody would sue AZ over their scam losses. Buyers would ALWAYS have recourse and the mods wouldn't have to get involved in our squabbles. Other than reversible electronic payments what other solution is there? Expect the mods to vet every seller and item for sale? That's not realistic. Expect burned people not to sue? That's not realistic.
The forum is going to have to learn to protect the buyers and sellers or it is going to fail. Stopping guys from selling new product without buying banner ads doesn't seem a solution (unless the mods figure that's a way of raising revenue to defend lawsuits). If the mods are going to allow the For Sale Forum to continue as is, but intend to keep on limiting what is for sale here until the lawsuits stop, we can expect to see the forum get to the point where nothing, new, used, chalk, case, DVD, nothing can be sold.
Trying to take something BACK to how it was when it was small? You can't go home again. Grow or die, those are the choice life gives us.
Thanks
Kevin
If every seller here was required to accept PayPal, and every buyer paid for their purchase with PayPal, funded by a credit card, the scams would stop cold. Nobody, would get scammed, nobody would sue AZ over their scam losses. Buyers would ALWAYS have recourse and the mods wouldn't have to get involved in our squabbles. Other than reversible electronic payments what other solution is there? Expect the mods to vet every seller and item for sale? That's not realistic. Expect burned people not to sue? That's not realistic.
The forum is going to have to learn to protect the buyers and sellers or it is going to fail. Stopping guys from selling new product without buying banner ads doesn't seem a solution (unless the mods figure that's a way of raising revenue to defend lawsuits). If the mods are going to allow the For Sale Forum to continue as is, but intend to keep on limiting what is for sale here until the lawsuits stop, we can expect to see the forum get to the point where nothing, new, used, chalk, case, DVD, nothing can be sold.
Trying to take something BACK to how it was when it was small? You can't go home again. Grow or die, those are the choice life gives us.
Thanks
Kevin
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Wow. Sorry, but a forum that makes *zilch* off each sale is not responsible for protecting buyers. Everyone transacting on here are grown ups and certainly capable of doing research and protecting themselves. Leave it to a bunch of douchebag nits to ruin it for all the good people on here. Well, can't say that I'm surprised.... 
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Lawyers.
It's not really up to you. If a dispute goes as far as getting lawyers involved it snowballs. They are after money, they don't care who is right, who is wrong, who is involved, and who is not involved. They are specifically and purposefully trained that way. It's for the money. Billable hours and going after deep pockets.
then EVERY item, for sale is a candidate for legal actions , not just NEW
so, there's more to the story than what's been said so far
Are you sure you didn't misunderstand something?
There is no way that they are paying $1000 per day. Since when? For what lawsuits? Who is suing whom? Why is an attorney needed?
How is AZB caught up in it?
And for that matter how in the world would doing anything to the WFS section now affect the lawsuits that they are currently dealing with.
I say make the information public and let the community in on it. Ask the community for help and I bet help shows up. I can't imagine that anyone is seriously suing AZB for anything related to the WFS section.
If that's the case then Craigslist would be out of business. Newspapers and magazines wouldn't run classifieds. I think that the legal precedent is long set that the publisher of classifieds is not responsible for the transactions between parties.
Now if it's some sort of defamation thing then I can see how AZB could be sued but I still think that they are not liable for user generated content. It not AZ doing the publishing. In this case AZ is merely the host not the editor. It's really not much different than someone writing on a blog or posting on YouTube. Again I doubt that an attorney is needed with a little bit of research and a good letter writer.
My advice, call Scott Taylor, the people's lawyer. He relishes this sort of fight and can determine if an attorney is really needed or not.
edit: There are THOUSANDS of forums with WFS sections. Disclaimers and Terms of Service agreements DO WORK and every forum has them. Craigslist operates in every city in the USA. In every city across America there are classifieds. I can see why Jerry is pissed by being hit with frivolous and groundless lawsuits. But I think that he shouldn't have to go to court over it. I would bet that a motion to dismiss based on well established legal precedent would suffice.
Now I want to add something important though. At least I feel it's important. I think AZ's moderators should be willing to HELP people who got scammed if they need something for evidence to go against the scammer, such as printouts of posts or PMs if available. I can see AZB getting sued for access to that information if the victim feels that it's really needed and they get put off. But other than that I really can't see how anyone in this day and age can think that they have a case by suing AZB for a bad transaction.
And furthermore if this is the case then stopping commercial sales isn't going to stop the bad transactions.
Wow, I really want to know the details now.
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I'd say get new lawyers, and I would say, that whoever is sueing that has a contract with AZ, when its up, do not renew it....... EVER
The biggest issue on this forum in my opinon would be the liability for all the action that is going on, the betting between individuals openly as if this forum is a haven for gambling openly and for bookmaking....
John,
I was just relaying some I formation. I don't know more details. I am Jerry might chime in again. Based on what I wrote before it would be a good idea to post ideas and stop the what ifs.
Let's brainstorm and post your thoughts and some possible solutions. Don't we have lawyers around here?
I know at least 2 around here: Deadon and lawman88 I think?
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I was just relaying some I formation. I don't know more details. I am Jerry might chime in again. Based on what I wrote before it would be a good idea to post ideas and stop the what ifs.
Let's brainstorm and post your thoughts and some possible solutions. Don't we have lawyers around here?
I know at least 2 around here: Deadon and lawman88 I think?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am not a lawyer nor have I ever sued anyone. But, from what my wife tells me when a lawsuit is written up they attach everyone even remotely related to the case. Lawyers are looking to get money for their client and it's hard to see how a judge will rule so they sue everyone. So as sad as that might be, that is the reality.
It's a real shame. Although I haven't bought any cues off of AZ, I do like looking at them and I have bought cuemaker related sutff. Hope they figure a way to control it and not have to shut that section down.