What I think would finally grow pool. (BCAPL/Pro/8-ball connection)

Celtic said:
Now going for sponsorship AFTER setting up what I propose

Pool Promoter: "Hello there, I was hoping to discuss with you the possibility of Coke becoming involved in professional pool"

Coke Marketing Employee: "hmm, sounds interesting, so what exactly would we be sponsoring?"

Pool Promoter: "Well it is a rather exciting time for the sport of pool. Recently a new professional tour has been formed in conjunction with an amateur pool league with over 100,000 active competitive players. We are now looking for sponsors to help fund the professional events."

Coke Marketing Employee: "Ahh, when you say 100,000 people how are they associated with this "tour" we would be sponsoring?"

Pool Promoter: "The Nameofleaguehere is a North American wide league system with active participation in every major city center in both the USA and Canada. It is in effect the official amateur system that leads to the professional pool tour. For those 100,000 people they are playing in the system where the top ranking is the pro tour you would be sponsoring."

Coke Marketing Employee: "Ahh, so you would want us sponsoring the tour or an event on that tour?

Pool Promoter: "The tour is in it's infancy and the opportunity for either is an option that Coke could consider."

Coke Marketing Employee: " So what is the current prize purse on the tour? How many players are you expecting in these tournaments? How many days will they run, how many spectators are expected to watch? Is it televised?

Pool Promoter: "The league system helps to fund the professional level of the tournaments so we currently have approximately $5,000,000 per a year in sustainable money going towards the tour, which is about $420,000 prize purse for each event before sponsorship additions. The pro events are capped at 64 professionally ranked players. One of the professional events takes place during the amateur national event in Las Vegas which attracts approximately 10,000 people each year, the event is free for any of those people to view and takes place in an arena with seating for about 1,000 people, it is usually packed due to the number of people there for the amateur event as a captive audience. We also have a live stream which is linked from the official league website, the streams tend to get over 5,000 viewers due to the fact that the players of the league system visit the website to find their stats, rankings, and the like and also have free access to watch the professional tour events. That website gets approximately 70,000 hits per a week from the league players and would have the professional events listed along with sponsor logos. The events will run 3 days, but the video of the events remain on the website and is free for all league members to access so eventual view numbers go into the 10's of thousands. The event is not televised."

Coke Marketing Employee: "Hmm, $420,000 is already assured in each event? That is more money than I thought was in the game of pool. So we would be looking at a sponsors logo on the opening page of that main website that gets 70,000 hits a week?"

Pool Promoter: "yep, the league system being associated with the professional game brings a large potential audience to the game to help kickstart it's growth. Your sponsorship benefits not just from the professional events, but the entire league system and all of its ranking levels."

Coke Marketing Employee: "Hmm, and you say this whole thing is just in its infancy, this has a chance to grow over time if the prize pools grow, the game catches on and more people get interested in taking part."

Pool Promoter: "Yes, we agree, this has the potential to become much larger over time.

Coke Marketing Employee: "OK, well since you have $5,000,000 per a year in prize pool and $420.000 per an event I can see you are not asking for a small amount of money. The number of people who would see our brand due to our association with you seems to be on the order of ~70,000 per a week and this would be sustained advertising over the course of the entire year due to constant hits on the website from the ongoing league system. I think I could be talked into sponsoring a single event, which we would want the name changed to the "Coke 8-Ball Classic", we want our Coca Cola logo on the main page next to the event link, and we would like banners up in the stadium where the tournament is played in full view of both the live and stream audience. We also want Coke products to be exclusive and the only non-alcoholic beverages sold at the event. We will offer $200,000 to become the single official sponsor of that event. If things go well we might look in the future at becoming the official sponsor of the tour and league system, for which we would want large banners on the league/tour website, advertising at each event, exclusivity as the official soft drink company, aka Pepsi will never be able to sponsor an event, ect..."

Pool Promoter: "That all sounds pretty reasonable and hopefully this is the start of a long term and mutually beneficial relationship between our two products."
Click to expand...

I suggest you lay off the coke. :-)
 
Maniac said:
There it is in a nutshell.

Another way of putting it is that "the game of pool is many different things to many different people". And....none of them is wrong!

Maniac
Click to expand...

But isn't that a strength as well as (maybe) a weakness?

With such diverse cultures, there is a whole slough of ideas and ways to grow the whole sport.

That's how I see it, anyway.

Jeff Livingston
 
Celtic said:
Pool sponsorship discussion today

Pool Promoter: "Hello there, my name is John Smith, I was hoping to discuss the possibility of Coke sponsoring pool"

Coke Marketing Employee: "hmm, sounds interesting, so what exactly would we be sponsoring?"

Pool Promoter: "well pool is a really huge sport with huge amounts of people participating in it, we were hoping Coke could sponsor professional pool to help it grow in popularity"

Coke Marketing Employee: "Ahh, so you would want us sponsoring a tour? Or possibly an event on the pro tour?"

Pool Promoter: "Well not exactly, pool atm does not have an actual professional tour, it consists of a large number of independently run events, we were hoping you could sponsor the Super Cool 8-ball Open"

Coke Marketing Employee: "Ahh, I see, so it would be professional rank players playing in this tournament?"

Pool Promoter: "There will be pros and amateur players both playing in the event"

Coke Marketing Employee: "So it is a pro-am tournament?"

Pool Promoter: "Heh, not exactly, pool does not really have an official "pro" status, anyone who wants to enter the tournament can play in it. There will be some really great players in it though, ever hear of Shane Van Boening?"

Coke Marketing Employee: "No"

Pool Promoter: "Oh, heh... well he is really good, probably the best pool player in North America"

Coke Marketing Employee: "Ahh, very impressive. So what is the current prize purse? How many players are you expecting in this tournament? How many days will it run, how many spectators are expected to watch? Is it televised?

Pool Promoter: "Well we are charging a $200 entry fee and hoping to get 150 players so that would be $30,000 in total purse from the entry fees, any added money was hopefully going to come from you... We have seating for about 200 people in the audience, last year we had up to 140 people watching at one time. We are not televised but it is going to be streamed on the internet and last years event got 120 people watching it live on the stream at one time. It is a 3 day tournament running Friday to Sunday."

Coke Marketing Employee:" So including players, spectators, and people watching this live stream we are looking at less then 500 people total that are liable to see our sponsorship or advertising associated with the event?"

Pool Promoter: "umm, well, we are hoping to get more people watching the stream this year... if you give us $50,000 I imagine we could double the amount of people watching! That is nothing to a company as big as you guys, and lots of us pool players drink Coke!"

Coke Marketing Employee: "You want $50,000 and we "might" get 1000 people watching, that would mean we were spending $50 for each person who plays in or watches the event either in person or via the stream over a 3 day interval... that is not going to happen."

Pool Promoter: "Gah, that sucks, you guys give like $20,000,000 each year to major league baseball, we are asking for way less"

Coke Marketing Employee: "Do you have any comprehension on how much brand recognition and advertising that MLB deal brings to Coke each year? How many millions of people see our banners in each of the stadiums each year? How many millions more see those banners on TV? Do you have any comprehension how many people at those games drink our product at those games due to the exclusive deal we have with MLB?"

Pool Promoter: "... umm... no..."

Coke Marketing Employee: "Look, I am sorry but I am going to have to pass on this. There is no financial sense in Coke doing this, you have no tour, no real fanbase, it is hardly a "professional" sport when you do not even have professional recognition and this just seems to be some amateur regional pool tournament. If I were to give you $50,000 MY boss is going to wonder WTF I was thinking, I have to actually justify the sponsorship deals and explain how they benefit our company, our association with your tournament would not benefit our product in any meaningful and lasting fashion."

Pool Promoter: "irk... ok... thanks for your time..."
Click to expand...

best post of the thread so far
 
Personally I don't think ESPN is every going to be the right venue to grow a Men's Pro Tour.

ESPN is 90% targetted to Men, Couch sitting, Beer drinking, NFL, NBA, MLB, Product Buying and Endorsing Fans.

The last thing that Men, that don't give 2 shits about pool, want to see is some foreign named men's players they have never heard of running racks in a game they do not understand. The only reason the Women ever got any ratings is because they are attractive women. It Sucks I know! But it's the truth.

ESPN would only be the venue again far far after one governed body had put together a full structure and made it fun, easy to understand and made for TV.

If ESPN actually did what they needed to Successfully broadcast Live Pool Events on TV, the Diehard AZB players would most likely not like how they are doing it. There would probably be some gimmick, like Team Events, Short Races, Trick Shots, Bonus Shots, etc. that we all know is not 'Real Pool'.

(ahhh, I can hear everyone in the forums screaming already! So and So sucks at commentating, they don't know what they are talking about, blah blah blah)
 
The 2011 World Open Chess tournament had a prize pool of $250,000. This isn't the only big Chess Tournament either. The North American Open, Philadelphia Open, Chicago Open, and Manhattan Open are also pretty big tournments, and this isn't even mentioning any of the international tournments. Chess is able to generate some decent sized tournaments where the Pros play in the same tourneys as the general public, and they do it all without TV or big name corporate sponsors. The top chess players in the world have also had some massive pay days.

The secret to their success is the Elo Ratings system. It is a system specifically designed to rate players (or teams) in skill based games such as Chess, Backgammon, Go, Scrabble, etc. The American Collegiate Football organization uses the Elo method as a portion of its Bowl Championship Series rating systems, and the NCAA uses Elo ratings as part of a formula to determine the annual participants in the College Football National Championship Game.

The Elo system could work great for pool, and just like Chess, there would be one top player at any given time, so one player would earn bragging rights as the best player in the world. Just like in Chess, a player could also earn a rating of Expert, International Master (IM), Grand Master (GM), or just level C or level D player.

What's more is that prize money for tournaments is divided into skill level sections. There are open sections where the best players win the tournament and the lion's share of the prize pool, but there can also be prize money awarded to first place among those rated level B or below, and/or for those level C or below, etc. No more goofy handicap systems and this system encourages new players to join tournaments. Some may be thinking, "all I have to do is be the best D level player to win some money." Others will be thinking, "if I can do well it two or three more tournaments I'll win some money and become an A level player." Another might be thinking, "one more big tournament win and I'll be an International Master (IM)." We're all a little vain.

Pool is a hell of lot more popular than Chess, and if it adopted the Elo ratings it could see a huge financial explosion. All you need is one governing body to issue a membership to players, provide a mechanism to enter the results of tournaments, and keep track of members Elo ratings. The last thing you would need is for pool rooms to run the tournaments, so this should be made as easy as possible for them, and it could all be done through the internet with the right software.

If you grow the game of pool from the bottom up, and get more and more people to play competitively, then bigger tournaments, corporate sponsors, and TV contracts will follow.
 
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Daithi said:
The 2011 World Open Chess tournament had a prize pool of $250,000. This isn't the only big Chess Tournament either. The North American Open, Philadelphia Open, Chicago Open, and Manhattan Open are also pretty big tournments, and this isn't even mentioning any of the international tournments. Chess is able to generate some decent sized tournaments where the Pros play in the same tourneys as the general public, and they do it all without TV or big name corporate sponsors. The top chess players in the world have also had some massive pay days.
Click to expand...

Uhmm, could you please elaborate a bit further and tell us WHERE the money comes from to generate these massive paydays and huge prize pools???

And.....how does the average professional chess player conduct him/herself at one of these tournaments as opposed to a professional poolplayer at one of theirs? It's hard to generate money for a sport/game that is not looked upon too highly by the general public.

We gotta quit comparing pool to ANY other sport/game out there. It's a differnt animal unto itself.

Maniac
 
Daithi said:
The 2011 World Open Chess tournament had a prize pool of $250,000.
Click to expand...

At least Chess has a single set of rules. The only real variable is the size of the table and the shape of the pieces.

<Various> Pool <rules> can't even settle on:
A) Open break requirements
B) Alternating Break versus Winner Break
C) BIH or BIK on scratch on break
D) Pocket widths
E) Table height
F) Jump cues
G) tip requirements (natural vs. leather vs anything)
H) slop allowed or not
I) Calling the Game-Ball
J) Shot clock time (30s vs 45s vs open)
K) Race lengths (9 vs 7 vs 2*4 vs 2*5::racks vs. points)

And that is before getting into deciding which game is up for grabs (9-ball, 8-ball, 14.1,...)
 
Maniac said:
Uhmm, could you please elaborate a bit further and tell us WHERE the money comes from to generate these massive paydays and huge prize pools???

And.....how does the average professional chess player conduct him/herself at one of these tournaments as opposed to a professional poolplayer at one of theirs? It's hard to generate money for a sport/game that is not looked upon too highly by the general public.

We gotta quit comparing pool to ANY other sport/game out there. It's a differnt animal unto itself.

Maniac
Click to expand...

There are only two places you can get money for prize pools -- sponsorship and entry fees.

Chess and many other game related competitions have figured out how to capitalize on entry fees. They break their competitions into skill level sections where the players only have to outperform others of their skill level. However, they also get to compete in the same events that is drawing in the top ranked players and pros.

Often the bigger tournaments are conducted over several days. The tournaments can be divided into sub-tourneys limited by skill level, or they can be open tourneys where payouts are broke out by skill level. However, the bottom line is they are able to conduct successful tournaments because people of different skill levels have a chance to compete, win prize money, and they have the chance to move to a higher skill level.

Here is a Wikipedia link that describes the Elo rating system.
Here is a link describing a mid level tournament in North Carolina.
 
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I don't know much about chess tournaments but I would suspect they can accommodate a much larger field in less space than a pool tournament too, thus substantially increasing the purse coming from entry fees. It wouldn't surprise me if the paying field for a major event is 500+ participants.


350px-Chess_tournament_1.jpg


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350px-Sahovska_olimpiada_Bled_2002_1.JPG
 
I've played pool for 40 years, but never in "organized" leagues or events.

Pool seems most like bowling, and in some ways boxing. Bowling because it is an individual sport, played indoors, between two people, in a match format, and tournaments are structured around that. There exists some pro activity, a little TV, and a large base of amateur occasional and league players.

Both are, generally, thought of as low-to-low-middle income leisure activities. Unlike golf, which costs $1000 a year before you put your foot on the course in equipment and clothing. And either a membership (for which your corporation is footing the bill) at the CC, or $50-$200 for greens fees per round per person. If I spend $50 one evening at a pool table, it's because I drank too much.:grin: Golf makes better television than pool visually, and it has a wealthier audience.

Boxing since people associate it with gambling. It's hard to call amateur boxing a "leisure activity.":grin: Pool has a unique appeal, partly due to the legendary gambling. There's no future for organizing around pool as a gambling sport: it's too easy to invisibly throw a match for that.

Many of the posts here have been based on a "wanted position" that is unclear to me. And I get the impression from the posts that there is no groundswell of consensus on what that future "wanted position" of pool should be.

8-ball is not as good for TV as 9-ball. Ten ball is probably better than either for determined the more skilled player, but less watchable. Further along that path is straight pool, and we know that was not good TV. (By "good" I mean for drawing high ratings that sponsors and advertisers want.)

Anyway, instead of starting with proposed solutions, I think it would be interesting to see if people agree on what the goals of any solutions should be. I think the OP has some, as do others, but guessing is not good, while being very explicit about what should be accomplished is. IMHO.
 
Daithi said:
The 2011 World Open Chess tournament had a prize pool of $250,000. This isn't the only big Chess Tournament either. The North American Open, Philadelphia Open, Chicago Open, and Manhattan Open are also pretty big tournments, and this isn't even mentioning any of the international tournments. Chess is able to generate some decent sized tournaments where the Pros play in the same tourneys as the general public, and they do it all without TV or big name corporate sponsors. The top chess players in the world have also had some massive pay days.

The secret to their success is the Elo Ratings system. It is a system specifically designed to rate players (or teams) in skill based games such as Chess, Backgammon, Go, Scrabble, etc. The American Collegiate Football organization uses the Elo method as a portion of its Bowl Championship Series rating systems, and the NCAA uses Elo ratings as part of a formula to determine the annual participants in the College Football National Championship Game.

The Elo system could work great for pool, and just like Chess, there would be one top player at any given time, so one player would earn bragging rights as the best player in the world. Just like in Chess, a player could also earn a rating of Expert, International Master (IM), Grand Master (GM), or just level C or level D player.

What's more is that prize money for tournaments is divided into skill level sections. There are open sections where the best players win the tournament and the lion's share of the prize pool, but there can also be prize money awarded to first place among those rated level B or below, and/or for those level C or below, etc. No more goofy handicap systems and this system encourages new players to join tournaments. Some may be thinking, "all I have to do is be the best D level player to win some money." Others will be thinking, "if I can do well it two or three more tournaments I'll win some money and become an A level player." Another might be thinking, "one more big tournament win and I'll be an International Master (IM)." We're all a little vain.

Pool is a hell of lot more popular than Chess, and if it adopted the Elo ratings it could see a huge financial explosion. All you need is one governing body to issue a membership to players, provide a mechanism to enter the results of tournaments, and keep track of members Elo ratings. The last thing you would need is for pool rooms to run the tournaments, so this should be made as easy as possible for them, and it could all be done through the internet with the right software.

If you grow the game of pool from the bottom up, and get more and more people to play competitively, then bigger tournaments, corporate sponsors, and TV contracts will follow.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%.

Been tried in various ways to have a universal rating system. Pool is too fractured and to contentious to have it work.

But if they did then it would go a long way towards solving many of the "issues" in pool.
 
JB Cases said:
Agree 100%.

Been tried in various ways to have a universal rating system. Pool is too fractured and to contentious to have it work.

But if they did then it would go a long way towards solving many of the "issues" in pool.
Click to expand...

Lots of naysaying from this guy...

Well, you know, the premier pool forum is AZbilliards or Arizona billiards. Arizona also has the most organized statewide ranking system I've ever seen; even the guy who played that one time at that one bar has a rating. Maybe the rest of the country should start using their thing.
 
Drew said:
Lots of naysaying from this guy...

Well, you know, the premier pool forum is AZbilliards or Arizona billiards. Arizona also has the most organized statewide ranking system I've ever seen; even the guy who played that one time at that one bar has a rating. Maybe the rest of the country should start using their thing.
Click to expand...

And guess what, Ron Hoffman from AZ tried valiantly to make that system a nationwide thing, to the detriment of his nice case business. Went no where.

Allen Hopkins tried to get a ranking system implemented nationwide. Didn't take off.

How about lots of EXPERIENCE from "this" guy. You have no freaking clue who I know and what I know.

The people who did the M8 handicapping system in Minnesota I think also tried to make it nationwide through a series of local tournaments that ANY pool room or bar could hold. They made up great packages with charts, rules the whole thing and it went no where. Now Mark Griffin is trying to implement it with the USA Pool League.

It's funny how so many people can't handle the simple truths that so many of the great ideas that are put forth on this forum have already been tried.

Does that mean that they won't work? No, it just means that they didn't work then.

No one is stopping you from becoming the Johnny Appleseed of nationwide/worldwide rankings. Go for it.

I look forward to seeing how you did against the dozens of "governing bodies" in pool around the world.

If you are successful I will kiss your feet in the center of the Super Billiards Expo.
 
I only read thru the first 1 1/2 pages of responses, but I did not see any discussion about the ruling body reigning in bad conduct, i.e. Earl, without enough of a penalty system to keep bad conduct in check, the big sponsors will never ever be there. This has been beaten to death in many previous posts and there are 2 opposite camps of thought on this issue. It seems no one is going to change sides on this either. So mens pool remains a mess with no hope in sight. Nuff said.
 
Bowling, sponsors and 8-ball

derangedhermit said:
I've played pool for 40 years, but never in "organized" leagues or events.

Pool seems most like bowling, and in some ways boxing. Bowling because it is an individual sport, played indoors, between two people, in a match format, and tournaments are structured around that. There exists some pro activity, a little TV, and a large base of amateur occasional and league players.

Both are, generally, thought of as low-to-low-middle income leisure activities. Unlike golf, which costs $1000 a year before you put your foot on the course in equipment and clothing. And either a membership (for which your corporation is footing the bill) at the CC, or $50-$200 for greens fees per round per person. If I spend $50 one evening at a pool table, it's because I drank too much.:grin: Golf makes better television than pool visually, and it has a wealthier audience.

Boxing since people associate it with gambling. It's hard to call amateur boxing a "leisure activity.":grin: Pool has a unique appeal, partly due to the legendary gambling. There's no future for organizing around pool as a gambling sport: it's too easy to invisibly throw a match for that.

Many of the posts here have been based on a "wanted position" that is unclear to me. And I get the impression from the posts that there is no groundswell of consensus on what that future "wanted position" of pool should be.

8-ball is not as good for TV as 9-ball. Ten ball is probably better than either for determined the more skilled player, but less watchable. Further along that path is straight pool, and we know that was not good TV. (By "good" I mean for drawing high ratings that sponsors and advertisers want.)

Anyway, instead of starting with proposed solutions, I think it would be interesting to see if people agree on what the goals of any solutions should be. I think the OP has some, as do others, but guessing is not good, while being very explicit about what should be accomplished is. IMHO.
Click to expand...

Bowling was my "first" sport from 1955 till 1973, when I gave it up to focus on pool. Bowling is not just an individual sport. At one time their were over a million people bowling on teams every week in the US. The sport took a huge jump in popularity because of television in the '50s (and the invention of automatic pinsetters in the '40s). Part of its success was the effort of business owners to promote the sport. Also, every team had a sponsor (tavern, bowling establishment, clothing company, beer and soft drink companies, etc.) that would typically buy shirts and even jackets, suits, and equipment for its players!
The resurgence of pool in the '60s and '70s hurt bowling, largely because the pool industry used bowling as a model for success. I captained pool teams in the '70s and '80s whose sponsors furnished shirts, jackets, free cue work, travel expenses, etc. Nowadays, a pool team is lucky just to HAVE a sponsor, let alone one who invests in its team and promotes the game.
I do agree with most of your comments. However, I think many folks would love to see more 8-ball on tv, as that is the most popular game and is what the vast majority of league players play. I think they would relish watching the pros play proper 8-ball.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
 
Sponsors! Holy crap we don't even get a round of free drinks at the place we play!

Anyway- here is the deal with pool. We love it. We are very biased. We have a totally distorted view of its importance. 99.999999% of the people in the world are more entertained with a good game of Parcheesi that playing pool. They would rather see trick shots than a game of straight pool between Willie Mosconi and Oliver Ortmann. In fact most people think that "Minnesota Fats" is still on the right side of the grass.

Pool is boring to watch on TV. If they play on tight pockets everyone says "These guys suck. They can't make a ball. I can play better than that." If they play on loose pockets people get bored because there is no drama because they never miss.

People WILL watch the women play, but they are not watching the pool necessarily. "Jennette Lee (or Jennifer Barretta or insert your favorite name here) she is hot. She is a pretty good pool player too."

You have to play 8 ball. It is what people think is "pool". They don't know what 9 ball is and they can't relate because they never played it. But they can relate to 8 ball. That is our only hope. We should also let pool players be what they are. Never mind make them dress up to look "professional". If they want to look like dirtbags let them. Let them gamble on their matches. Mike them and let people hear the chirping.

OK....back to work....

Bob
 
JB Cases said:
And guess what, Ron Hoffman from AZ tried valiantly to make that system a nationwide thing, to the detriment of his nice case business. Went no where.

Allen Hopkins tried to get a ranking system implemented nationwide. Didn't take off.

How about lots of EXPERIENCE from "this" guy. You have no freaking clue who I know and what I know.

The people who did the M8 handicapping system in Minnesota I think also tried to make it nationwide through a series of local tournaments that ANY pool room or bar could hold. They made up great packages with charts, rules the whole thing and it went no where. Now Mark Griffin is trying to implement it with the USA Pool League.

It's funny how so many people can't handle the simple truths that so many of the great ideas that are put forth on this forum have already been tried.

Does that mean that they won't work? No, it just means that they didn't work then.

No one is stopping you from becoming the Johnny Appleseed of nationwide/worldwide rankings. Go for it.

I look forward to seeing how you did against the dozens of "governing bodies" in pool around the world.

If you are successful I will kiss your feet in the center of the Super Billiards Expo.
Click to expand...

Why do you even open these threads, John? You just have to discourage other people to make yourself feel better?

It's not impossible to have a nationwide rating system. You wanna know the biggest problem? Half the people out there think they're God's gift to pool. Everybody has the "perfect" solution and is unwilling to work with the other "perfect" solutions. The other half says, "I've been here a long time and I know everything and nothing can save pool."

There's a kid somewhere who read your post and said, "Well maybe I'll start bowling instead of playing pool." Good job, John.
 
I've been around the sport for two years total now. I don't have all the answere's and I won't pretend to. I think the problem with pool not growing is an intersting debate. On the subject i have heard several idea's and different veiw points. I think you take a look at the Euro's and Asian system. they do NOT seem to have any problem generating enthusiam or money for the sport.

I tend to think that the reason why pool doesn't take off in the states, is the same reasons why soccer is HUGE every where in the world, not so much in the states. Formula 1, huge every where else in the world, not really here. American mind set is different today than it was in pool's hay day. It's not popular, it's hard for amature's to watch, it's incredibly difficult to even be decent, let alone GOOD. It takes way to much time and money to get good at pool, and there is almost NO pay off. Even SVB probably doens't bank $1,000,000 w/ endorsments and every thing. Plus most people dont even pick it up untill they are 18+ years old, and in most cases after 21.

To American's pool is a BAR GAME. Else where it is a SPORT. Two completely different trains of thought. Becuase of this, almost no one gets to a level that is competitive with pros. Add to this that it seems almost every one in the pool comunity is only out for # 1, and you have a system that is designed to fail, and fail hard!

So, how do you break the cycle...

You have to change the mind sets of Americans in general. It is my belief that before you can address this, you have to first get there attention. I think there are several ways to do this. I think the best way to grab attention would be to have a celebrity pool tournament, for charity. That is something that you could get a national network to air, and on top of that it brings pool into the seen from a different point of veiw. Instead of being a bar rat, hustler's game. Now it's for a good cause, and interesting from several different veiws. Take a look at the celeb golf and poker tournaments. incredibly popular, and promotional. From here you can build a system like Celtic's or set up a boxing/MMA type format like TAR.

=== i would also add to this, it will take some one with a sizable income, and a passion to throw some of his money away to build the sport for the good of the sport. NOT for personal gain. (If that comes a by product great, but keep pool up front) the problem with the above statement highlights the other major detering factor, which is that most people I've met and observed in the pool comunity will screw over whomever the need to, to get ahead. that brings us back to the first part, and then the circle goes round, and round and round and round and round...


this is all just my little $.02, i could be completely wrong... for the first time...

regards,

Justin
 
I have read this thread. With all due respect, I do not agree with any of the underlying assumptions that are taken for granted in this discussion.

I will say this. If you believe in your ideas, anti-up and get to work on them. It does not matter what I or anybody else thinks. I root for anything honorable and respectable that promotes pool.
 
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