Diamondized in Indy by JZMechanix

K

kline99

Registered
Just thought I would give praise to Jack Zimmerman for quickly converting my old beat up Gold Crown II into a perfectly functional table that plays just like a Diamond. I'm sure there are details of the work he performed that I can't even begin to understand, but I can say that the cushions are lively, the pockets tight, and everything is perfectly consistent and precise all the way around the table. I highly recommend his services if you are in his area. Thanks Jack!

https://picasaweb.google.com/114351443120585754709/KKGCII
 
Nice

The table looks great! Blasphemy to say it plays as good as a diamond (TIC). I see you set the pocket face down angle at 15 degrees and I've heard a smaller angle recommended (13) from a guru here. Does it make that much difference in play? Also did he do the extensions on site or take your rails back to his shop? I want blue cloth on mine next time. Green gets so tiring to look at. If only Simonis didn't last so long!

JC
 
Regarding Rail Work

Thanks for the compliments. He did have to pickup the rails and take them back to his shop for a few days. During the time I was without my table, my league win rate went from 100% to 100%. :embarrassed2:

The 860 HR is fantastic. It seems pre-broken-in a little and the tournament blue makes burn marks much less visible.
 
kline99 said:
Thanks for the compliments. He did have to pickup the rails and take them back to his shop for a few days. During the time I was without my table, my league win rate went from 100% to 100%. :embarrassed2:

The 860 HR is fantastic. It seems pre-broken-in a little and the tournament blue makes burn marks much less visible.
Click to expand...

The reason I asked about the angles is the question was asked just yesterday here "what should the face angles be" refering to a gold crown and realkingcobra answered "142 degrees miter, 13 degrees down angle."

Your pockets were cut slightly different. So I was wondering just how much difference a degree or two really makes out there in the real world.

JC
 
Surpised there.

I actually had a long discussion with various mechanics about that here:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=248269

The 4.5, 141, 15 are the specs for a new Diamond. The standard Gold Crown was at 143 deg with a 12 deg down angle. The variable that can't be changed is the shelf depth, which is slightly smaller on the Gold Crown and will make similar angled pockets play slightly looser on the Diamondized Gold Crown. I will have to wait until the cloth is fully broken in to give proper feed back on my experience, but so far the Diamond type rattle is definitely there on the new pockets and they will only get tighter as the cloth gets broken in. I now find myself moving on to the next ball only to be surprised that the ball somehow rattled in the jaws, just like when I played on Diamonds before after getting used to my Gold Crown. It would be interesting to see how much tougher they play at 142, but I think they would be more similar to the old Diamond pockets, which sometimes were unreasonable when shooting down the rail. Now, especially with the 15 deg down angle, when you need to use a little power along the rail, you can do so with confidence, as long as the shot is accurate. If RKC has changed his official Diamondizing specs, I'm one week too late! :mad:
 
KKGCII

I like that angle.
If it has 15* down angle, it'll play a little easier.
141* is pretty unforgiving .


I hope that pocket becomes standard. :smile:
 
Thanks for posting all the pics. Looks like he did a fantastic job on that GCII. Good luck with your "new" table.
 
kline99 said:
Just thought I would give praise to Jack Zimmerman for quickly converting my old beat up Gold Crown II into a perfectly functional table that plays just like a Diamond. I'm sure there are details of the work he performed that I can't even begin to understand, but I can say that the cushions are lively, the pockets tight, and everything is perfectly consistent and precise all the way around the table. I highly recommend his services if you are in his area. Thanks Jack!

https://picasaweb.google.com/114351443120585754709/KKGCII
Click to expand...

Kevin,
Thanks for the kind words. It was a pleasure working on your table and I'm sure it will bring your game up a notch or two! :thumbup:
 
kline99 said:
I actually had a long discussion with various mechanics about that here:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=248269

The 4.5, 141, 15 are the specs for a new Diamond. The standard Gold Crown was at 143 deg with a 12 deg down angle. The variable that can't be changed is the shelf depth, which is slightly smaller on the Gold Crown and will make similar angled pockets play slightly looser on the Diamondized Gold Crown. I will have to wait until the cloth is fully broken in to give proper feed back on my experience, but so far the Diamond type rattle is definitely there on the new pockets and they will only get tighter as the cloth gets broken in. I now find myself moving on to the next ball only to be surprised that the ball somehow rattled in the jaws, just like when I played on Diamonds before after getting used to my Gold Crown. It would be interesting to see how much tougher they play at 142, but I think they would be more similar to the old Diamond pockets, which sometimes were unreasonable when shooting down the rail. Now, especially with the 15 deg down angle, when you need to use a little power along the rail, you can do so with confidence, as long as the shot is accurate. If RKC has changed his official Diamondizing specs, I'm one week too late! :mad:
Click to expand...

I use different spec's depending on the table, and who the player is, and what kind of games do they play. The greater the down angle, the softer the pocket plays when a ball is making contact with the facing directly then going into the pocket. At 13 down angle, compared to say a 15 degree down angle, the lesser down angle will have a tendency to bounce the balls back and forth a little bit more lively and with a little more speed before going into the pocket, but still, it also depends on the miter angle of the pocket as well. The greater the miter angle, the more the chance of the pocket spitting out the balls, added to that a lesser down angle and you'll end up with a corner pocket that you don't even want to shoot at unless you're shooting right down the middle of center pocket.

Glen
 
Tighten the screws

If you have 4 slate screws holes in the play field, tightly screwed down, you shouldnt get any popped seams with normal use. When you get that cloth off, check the tightness of the center screws, if it doesnt have em consider drilling some holes thru the slate and dropping some slate screws in (assuming you have a wide enough frame board under the slate). Maybe someone picked up or moved the table without you knowing. the temperature thing could be it also. Having sex on a table will pop the seams so dont do that anymore either.
 
Robertson's said:
If you have 4 slate screws holes in the play field, tightly screwed down, you shouldnt get any popped seams with normal use. When you get that cloth off, check the tightness of the center screws, if it doesnt have em consider drilling some holes thru the slate and dropping some slate screws in (assuming you have a wide enough frame board under the slate). Maybe someone picked up or moved the table without you knowing. the temperature thing could be it also. Having sex on a table will pop the seams so dont do that anymore either.
Click to expand...

There is NO reason to have slate screw holes in the center of the slates at the seams, unless the slate is crowned. Slate screws in the center are used to pull the slates down, and hold it there while the outside edges of the slates are being leveled. In 99% of the cases of leveling 3 piece slates, if the middle of the slates are anything other than flat level, they're swayback, which means they need to be shimmed UP, not pulled down with screws. If you don't want the seams to come apart, then don't rely on just the slate screws to hold the seams in place...use super glue in the seams as well.

Glen
 
more diamondizing comparison info

I played in leagues last night on the Diamond bar boxes. I had a couple of down the rail shots rattle up when I got out of line and had to use extra power. In looking closely at the pockets on the Diamond bar boxes I play on, it really doesn't look like the shelf is that much deeper, but I don't think they have the 15* down angle and obviously the cloth is very much broken in although it is definitely the HR as my feel for the speed has improved dramatically. I'm not going to vacuum the table or clean my balls for awhile to try to accelerate the break-in process and get rid of the slide. Even with the slide, I can tell the angles on banks and kicks with my artemis cushions are going to be very consistent with the Diamond cushions I assume the bar boxes have on them. I think I am heading up to Brickyard this weekend to see Breedlove and Jeanette and I will shoot a few on one of their big Diamonds and report back.
 
kline99 said:
Just thought I would give praise to Jack Zimmerman for quickly converting my old beat up Gold Crown II into a perfectly functional table that plays just like a Diamond. I'm sure there are details of the work he performed that I can't even begin to understand, but I can say that the cushions are lively, the pockets tight, and everything is perfectly consistent and precise all the way around the table. I highly recommend his services if you are in his area. Thanks Jack!

https://picasaweb.google.com/114351443120585754709/KKGCII
Click to expand...

Congratulations... yeah, JZ's detail work is amazing. I can't wait to get my rails back, hopefully by the end of this week, barring pop-up blizzard delays with UPS. :cool:
 
jdxprs said:
What is the "down angle"?
Click to expand...



It is the angle (up and down) that the pocket facing has

if the facing is like this | the down angle is 0 and a ball that strikes the facing would tend to jump up. / a facing angle like this helps keep the ball on the bed, and helps to funnel it back to the end of the pocket. By adjusting this angle, you can make the table play more difficult.

The question is how much down angle to use.
 
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