Stance Fundamentals

TDub

I get the 8!!!
Silver Member
I was playing in a tournament the other day and one of the sweaters on the rail told me that he thought I was not completely in line over the cue and thought I should square up my stance a bit. Any thought to how the stance should be and the routine you might use to get into a proper stance... Thanks for any input...
 
Depends on your physiology and your vision center... IF you are opposite eye dominant squaring up is pretty hard without introducing some serious stress on your back and neck to get your head in position... With that said Lee Brett and many others are starting to push the snooker stance which is square... It does have merit but I am not sure everyone is made in a fashion that makes it always the best stance.....
 
A video is worth about a million words. Take a look at the Alignment and Stance sections of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u52gKAehqo&feature=plcp&context=C3f08c38UDOEgsToPDskIDKclUaoTPsbHT5qxrV7LM

And the alignment information in this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpbNlnS9GFk

Your stance should allow you to stand balanced, and it allows you to stroke the cue on the line required for the shot freely, with the full range of motion of the cue. The problem the railbird noted may not be one of stance but it may be that you are not getting yourself in line with the shot initially.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
 
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I was playing in a tournament the other day and one of the sweaters on the rail told me that he thought I was not completely in line over the cue and thought I should square up my stance a bit. Any thought to how the stance should be and the routine you might use to get into a proper stance... Thanks for any input...

Everyone has an opinion. I used to get opinions thrown at me all the time. Most of the time they were wrong. Instead of questioning yourself right away, why not question the railbird? Ask him (or her) what he meant and how he thinks you should stand. How did he learn this? What is the logic behind his analysis? Put him on a spot.

If someone's going to throw a possibly arbitrary opinion out at you, make him accountable for it. Then watch him squirm.

If he doesn't squirm, then maybe he's a rare one who might know what he's talking about. But by all means take him to task and make him prove what he knows.

And I'll tell you something else....even if he ACTS like he knows what he's talking about, he STILL may not know what he's talking about. You have to follow your gut.

That comes from 30 years in dealing with railbirds with opinions.
 
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I was playing in a tournament the other day and one of the sweaters on the rail told me that he thought I was not completely in line over the cue and thought I should square up my stance a bit. Any thought to how the stance should be and the routine you might use to get into a proper stance... Thanks for any input...



YOUR stance should be Comfortable, Relaxed and be able to carry you for a long duration. YOUR stance should also be situated so that: "What you see is real."

randyg
 
Your best teacher will be a video camera at this point. That assumes you have no teacher at your disposal.

Take a video of yourself from the side, from under you, & from the front. You'll see some obvious things to work on. If you are typical, you'll see variance in your pre-shot, that you jump up, that your feet are not where you thought they were, that your shoulders aren't where you thought they were, that your elbow does some funky stuff,..., etc.

Next, compare that video with professional pool & snooker players to uncover more subtle things to work on.

An incredibly revealing video angle is UNDER you. Place the camera on the floor looking up at your chest. You'll get an incredible amount of information about how straight your stroke is...that will not be as easily revealed by any other angle. Check initial position, backswing position, & follow-thru position. If typical, your cue will move around WAY MORE than you would ever think.

When doing the front shot, put everything in alignment...the balls, the pocket, the camera. This will reveal IMMEDIATELY if you set up straight on target line or not.

If you have no anxiety about it, post your vids on here for our comment.
 
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YOUR stance should be Comfortable, Relaxed and be able to carry you for a long duration. YOUR stance should also be situated so that: "What you see is real."

randyg

Indeed Randy...I'm so tired of shooting at illussions...For me this is the biggest variable, the one thing which is not constant at all...sometimes I see the real thing and shoot it great, other days I'm just shooting after illusions...
Any way to check that you're really seeing real?
 
I would say if you are making the ball you are shooting at, you are seeing real.


Indeed Randy...I'm so tired of shooting at illussions...For me this is the biggest variable, the one thing which is not constant at all...sometimes I see the real thing and shoot it great, other days I'm just shooting after illusions...
Any way to check that you're really seeing real?
 
You know, I've posted my opinion a lot on these threads and it occurred to me how many top notch players there are that violate nearly every piece of advice about proper stroke mechanics and stance. If standing sideways, spreading my feet a yard apart, stretching my left arm out as far as I could and stroking like a teeter-totter would make me shoot like Mike Davis, then I'd probably do that. Bottom line is do what feels comfortable, is repeatable and works for you. If you see you're missing the same type of shot the same way, then getting someone who knows a little to watch you or video taping yourself is a good tip to try and see what's throwing you off. The thing I love about these threads is the willingness of reputable instructors and experienced players to spend their time debating the nuances of mechanics...I pick up a lot of little things to try out--some work, many don't--but it's fun to try. But if you're shooting okay don't let a comment "you're standing wrong" or "that's not how you grip a cue" bother you.

Next time ask the railbird to post up and show you how much better his stance is than yours!
 
I don't get it. What the heck is comfortable about shooting pool? You're leaning over something that's about half your height, stretching your neck, then while balancing yourself, moving your arm to strike a teeny spot on a round object in order to send that round object to another teeny spot on another round object, with a teeny margin for error.

Comfortable is stretched out on an easy chair watching a movie.

Just sayin'......
 
Ok Ok mylady,

let me try to choose a better explanation:p With comfortable i mean (if i personally use the word comfortable) that the player is able to build his stance *around the cue* having the important things on a baseline- and hopefully this result will *soon* get natural. And furthermore the stance has to be rockstable so that he will not have non-necessary body-movements.

i m with you- lying on my sofa is much more comfortable ^^

lg
Ingo
 
I will add to this, that your stance should be a tripod, and allow for free movement of the cuestick along your range of motion (stand so that your body is out of the way of swinging your cue).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

YOUR stance should be Comfortable, Relaxed and be able to carry you for a long duration. YOUR stance should also be situated so that: "What you see is real."

randyg
 
West Point 1987...There's no debate. There are easier and more accurate/repeatable ways of doing things...and then there are more difficult, unorthodox, complex ways of doing things. Like you said, do what works for you...but too many keep changing. You have find what works best, and then believe in it. That will come quickest from a qualified instructor. If those type of comments came from a qualified instructor, I would pay attention to them.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

The thing I love about these threads is the willingness of reputable instructors and experienced players to spend their time debating the nuances of mechanics...I pick up a lot of little things to try out--some work, many don't--but it's fun to try. But if you're shooting okay don't let a comment "you're standing wrong" or "that's not how you grip a cue" bother you.

Next time ask the railbird to post up and show you how much better his stance is than yours!
 
West Point 1987...There's no debate. There are easier and more accurate/repeatable ways of doing things...and then there are more difficult, unorthodox, complex ways of doing things. Like you said, do what works for you...but too many keep changing. You have find what works best, and then believe in it. That will come quickest from a qualified instructor. If those type of comments came from a qualified instructor, I would pay attention to them.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
From a student.
I play a guy often who I usually beat 2 to 1. One night he was really on and the score fliped. I lost every game. The next morning he tried so hard to repeat he was actually sweating. He played terrible. Moral: As said above, Get Your Mind Consistant.

To be consistant you have to be consistant. Duh. Instructors can get you back to basics with tips, suggestions and video proof. You'll be amazed at what they'll teach you. Do exactly what they say for a couple of months, be methodical, and the wierd mechanical stuff you have going on will go away. Then you'll better be able to find yourself having a more solid base to build from.

Go in for a Tune Up every year or so after that. I'm over due for one myself.

Lastly reading this stuff is no comparison to being at the table with a good coach.
 
I'm with RandyG on this one. Your stance has to be comfortable for YOU and it has to be such that you see a real vision of the shot or shot line. I've seen many that shoot with dominant eye over the cue, many that shoot with their nose or chin over the cue, some with their right ear over the cue... stance, I've seen straight on (snooker style), out of the book Mosconi stuff, both legs locked, one leg locked one bent, both legs bent... all of this in different professional or very high end players. So, there is no "right" stance and alignment, until you find the stance that's comfortable for you (and as Randy said, will not wear you out) and an alignment that lets you see the shot really well (and confidently) AND lets you find center of cue ball.

Bob
 
I'm with RandyG on this one. Your stance has to be comfortable for YOU and it has to be such that you see a real vision of the shot or shot line. I've seen many that shoot with dominant eye over the cue, many that shoot with their nose or chin over the cue, some with their right ear over the cue... stance, I've seen straight on (snooker style), out of the book Mosconi stuff, both legs locked, one leg locked one bent, both legs bent... all of this in different professional or very high end players. So, there is no "right" stance and alignment, until you find the stance that's comfortable for you (and as Randy said, will not wear you out) and an alignment that lets you see the shot really well (and confidently) AND lets you find center of cue ball.

Bob



Wait a minute here Bob. You mean I have to fine the center of the cue ball also?????:wink:
randyg
 
For some of you what I'm about to write may sound boring, useless, but I'm sure others may appreciate some of it. It's a short summary of my thoughts/feelings on the subject , collected over the past 10 yrs.

Depends on your physiology and your vision center... IF you are opposite eye dominant squaring up is pretty hard without introducing some serious stress on your back and neck to get your head in position... With that said Lee Brett and many others are starting to push the snooker stance which is square... It does have merit but I am not sure everyone is made in a fashion that makes it always the best stance.....

I'm oppposite eye dominant and have been struggling for years to get into a stance of my choice. It's definitely not easy. any help/links/videos/info would help. i was thinking of making a videos of myself by camera and see if some people could see what's wrong or not.

i used to practice bert kinister's long straight one-handed shot, then two-handed stop, and two-handed straight draw. it was good, i i was able to improve, but honestly the stance was still an issue and opposite eye dominant is tricky and as you said , adopting a square textbook stance is not really good in my case i found out.. it puts stress on neck and back. etc.

Originally Posted by BobN
I'm with RandyG on this one. Your stance has to be comfortable for YOU and it has to be such that you see a real vision of the shot or shot line.

much respect to you trying to help, but that particular advice just isn't going to cut it for me. I've tested and been "comfortable" in many different stance positions, as a matter of fact i may be like a cameleon adapting to almost any stance. what this means, is that I've been able to draw the ball at fairly consistent rates with different kind of stances, but never really feeling "on the money" with my stance, that feeling only came to me after playing for some time (a couple of months) on a 30hrs+ playing + practicing stance and stroke in different ways... but then it goes all away .. and then good luck getting it back.

my problem is that to get the feeling of being on that "on the money" stance, that feeling only comes "by luck" by trying a few things.

back in may I tried the MAx eberle 8-video series which he gives , and that worked pretty well, actually i found "on the money" stance within a 1 week or so. the problem is that i stopped playing for 6 months, and now ive tried to apply those same Max eberle video tips, and it seems I feeel completely off.

it's a strange world.. nothing is the same, over time things change and you feel like you're back at square one.

----

on a side note that "The Fundamentals Of Pool With Greyghost Part 1 of 2" video posted earlier by Tony_M_D, is good. By looking at it and meditating on my fundamentals, I think i've narrowed the problem now to my wrist / grip.
believe me if you would see me do my stance and hit the white ball you would probably say there is nothing wrong with it , but inside it feels wrong, still.

back in may of this year during my re-adjustments of fundamentals I realized there was something wrong with my grip because the side of my thumb skin right where it folds, that part which is closer to the cue grip - the skin there used to be a lil more used up if you know what I mean, especially I remember when I practiced those draw strokes for many hours, etc.

so a good gentleman bobcmbsu made me realize that the thumb should definitely not be touching the cue at all and the minute i started correcting that, my cue delivery improved by 200%, combined that with the few Max Eberle video tips (find the stroking line then go down on the shot) made me feel again "in the money" since a long time.

however the problem now is, the 6 months of not playing screwed it all up , so it seems. .. now i tried to get back into stance using previously collected info in my mind, but then unocnsciously the "thumb problem" or "Wrist problem", or God only knows what else, all or some of these unknown or known bad habits kept coming back very slightly but enough to make me off my game. I mean you align yourself for a straight in shot 4 diamonds apart and you miss it, you miss it consistently on the same side of the ball. you wonder why because you seem to be aligned etc.. then you wonder if your eyes are the problem. lol

overall when reflecting upon all this, i think to truely improve your game one would need to go at war against one's own bad mechanical habits and correct it practicing it 5-6 times a week for at least 3-4 months , to completely replace the new habits by the old ones. it seems that a few weeks or 1 week is simply not enough.

those are the times when you wish you could start playing pool all over again and forget the old bad habits. and i'ts not like you got those bad habits carelessly. i've seen at least 3 instructors, two of them pro players. but honestly none really truely understand the little intricacies such as your cue grip etc.
but in the end is it really their fault ? plus the "pro player" instructors have their own pefect fundamentals which suit "them", so I can only imagine how hard it can be to find the "perfect" fundamentals for your student.
like in my case, they probably didn't see that my thumb was slightly rubbing against that pool cue and furthermore I thought this side-effect of a fairly rougher skin on the thumb of the grip hand was just a normal side-effect, etc. etc.

i'll end this here before it becomes a book. :-)
 
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I'm oppposite eye dominant and have been struggling for years to get into a stance of my choice. It's definitely not easy. any help/links/videos/info would help. i was thinking of making a videos of myself by camera and see if some people could see what's wrong or not.

i used to practice bert kinister's long straight one-handed shot, then two-handed stop, and two-handed straight draw. it was good, i i was able to improve, but honestly the stance was still an issue and opposite eye dominant is tricky and as you said , adopting a square textbook stance is not really good in my case i found out.. it puts stress on neck and back. etc.



much respect to you trying to help, but that just isn't going to cut it for me. I've tested and been "comfortable" in many different stance positions, as a matter of fact i may be like a cameleon adapting to almost any stance. what this means, is that I've been able to draw the ball at fairly consistent rates with different kind of stances, but never really feeling "on the money" with my stance, that feeling only came to me after playing for some time (a couple of months) on a 30hrs+ playing + practicing stance and stroke in different ways... but then it goes all away .. and then good luck getting it back.

my problem is that to get the feeling of being on that "on the money" stance, that feeling only comes "by luck" by trying a few things.

back in may I tried the MAx eberle 8-video series which he gives , and that worked pretty well, actually i found "on the money" stance within a 1 week or so. the problem is that i stopped playing for 6 months, and now ive tried to apply those same Max eberle video tips, and it seems I feeel completely off.

it's a strange world.. nothing is the same, over time things change and you feel like you're back at square one.

if anybody shares similar feeling or understands what i'm trying to write here pls let me know.

Take a look at Mike Sigel's stance. There's a good shot of it in the video below at 4:28. I don't know if he has a cross-dominant eye, but his stance is what I would consider helpful if you have that issue. By placing your back foot inside the line of the shot (if you're right handed that would be to the left of the line of the shot) and turning slightly towards your cue stick, you will give yourself room to place your cue under your inside eye, which is your dominant eye without having to crook your arm under your torso. You'll still have plenty of swing room to keep your arm straight with a full follow-through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-kEwMIYCdI
 
Thanks. really good advice, reading and imagining it feels right [for the opposite eye dominant type].
It's a good example because you can clearly see that he is opposite eye dominant.
First I think we can most agree that back foot being in line with your shot is a good starting point towards improvement.
by "inside the line of the shot" means, if i am right handed then the right foot should be placed a bit to the left of the line with the shot..

I like Mike siegel's stance in that video. it's hard to see that his back foot is inside the line of the shot. i'll check it out in practice.
 
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Thanks. really good advice, reading and imagining it feels right [for the opposite eye dominant type].
It's a good example because you can clearly see that he is opposite eye dominant.
First I think we can most agree that back foot being in line with your shot is a good starting point towards improvement.
by "inside the line of the shot" means, if i am right handed then the right foot should be placed a bit to the left of the line with the shot..

I like Mike siegel's stance in that video. it's hard to see that his back foot is inside the line of the shot. i'll check it out in practice.

True, it's hard to tell if his back foot is inside the line by just looking at the video. Mostly it's from my memory of having watched him live on many occasions.

I also recall that Robin Dodson is another player who stands similar to that.
 
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