Let's talk about the opening break

Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Now that I'm playing more in leagues now, I've been experimenting with the opening break. Up to now I've had OK to mediocre results. By that I mean the cue ball rests near the head rail, and there might be two possible shots at the other end of the table - no real gimmies, but nonetheless an opening for my opponent. However, tonight I found a break strategy that really worked well in practice, and then in a match tonight it worked like a charm... not a ball to be had.

Below is a Cue Table diagram. I always used to shoot from point A because whenever I shot from B (which is the recommended place) I tended to scratch more. From A, though, the corner ball (one ball) didn't come back to the rack enough. I've now found position C, like a nine ball break position, and the results are fantastic. The diagram shows what I've been typically getting.

CueTable Help



I'm using a good amount of right english and hitting the 5 ball thin, like less than a half ball hit. It seems this angle gives lots of speed for the 1 ball so it can get back to the pack, and at the same time the 5 is weak enough to stay hidden behind the pack.

Here's what's bothering me:

1. This works so well, why isn't it the standard shot everybody uses? It isn't just the table because I had equal results on two different tables.

2. How is it possible to get these results from position B?

3. I did notice that sometimes the rack breaks open and balls are left out. Other times it works like in the diagram, perfectly. I've tried various combinations of loose balls in the back row and thicker hits on the 5 ball to see if I can reproduce that bad result. So far I don't know what is causing it. Any ideas?

4. Also, it seems a lot of pros use draw rather than follow on this shot, but I have yet to hear an explanation as to why. I do notice that with draw the cue ball tends to whip around the corner more quickly when coming back up table.

Any thoughts???
 
Dan White said:
...
1. This works so well, why isn't it the standard shot everybody uses? It isn't just the table because I had equal results on two different tables.

2. How is it possible to get these results from position B?

3. I did notice that sometimes the rack breaks open and balls are left out. Other times it works like in the diagram, perfectly. I've tried various combinations of loose balls in the back row and thicker hits on the 5 ball to see if I can reproduce that bad result. So far I don't know what is causing it. Any ideas?

4. Also, it seems a lot of pros use draw rather than follow on this shot, but I have yet to hear an explanation as to why. I do notice that with draw the cue ball tends to whip around the corner more quickly when coming back up table.

Any thoughts???
Click to expand...
1. It's possible that it is the best way to play the shot. To do the experiment is very hard -- all cushions, cloths, balls, humidity, ....
2. I always shoot from B. I use enough side spin to hit the side cushion for my third cushion. All of the champions played end-side-side-(maybe end), which tends to kill the cue ball better.
3. The back row is critical. There are at least 10 contact points that contribute to how the rack breaks. In most racks some of those will be not touching.
4. I think that draw/follow is immaterial. By the time the cue ball gets to the rack at the speed it usually is struck at it will be rolling smoothly on the cloth. I don't think I've ever seen someone play the break and have draw on the cue ball when it arrived at the rack.
 
Dan White said:
Now that I'm playing more in leagues now, I've been experimenting with the opening break. Up to now I've had OK to mediocre results. By that I mean the cue ball rests near the head rail, and there might be two possible shots at the other end of the table - no real gimmies, but nonetheless an opening for my opponent. However, tonight I found a break strategy that really worked well in practice, and then in a match tonight it worked like a charm... not a ball to be had.

Below is a Cue Table diagram. I always used to shoot from point A because whenever I shot from B (which is the recommended place) I tended to scratch more. From A, though, the corner ball (one ball) didn't come back to the rack enough. I've now found position C, like a nine ball break position, and the results are fantastic. The diagram shows what I've been typically getting.

CueTable Help



I'm using a good amount of right english and hitting the 5 ball thin, like less than a half ball hit. It seems this angle gives lots of speed for the 1 ball so it can get back to the pack, and at the same time the 5 is weak enough to stay hidden behind the pack.

Here's what's bothering me:

1. This works so well, why isn't it the standard shot everybody uses? It isn't just the table because I had equal results on two different tables.

2. How is it possible to get these results from position B?

3. I did notice that sometimes the rack breaks open and balls are left out. Other times it works like in the diagram, perfectly. I've tried various combinations of loose balls in the back row and thicker hits on the 5 ball to see if I can reproduce that bad result. So far I don't know what is causing it. Any ideas?

4. Also, it seems a lot of pros use draw rather than follow on this shot, but I have yet to hear an explanation as to why. I do notice that with draw the cue ball tends to whip around the corner more quickly when coming back up table.

Any thoughts???
Click to expand...

Post the pictures please, there are none.
 
Bob Jewett said:
1. It's possible that it is the best way to play the shot. To do the experiment is very hard -- all cushions, cloths, balls, humidity, ....
2. I always shoot from B. I use enough side spin to hit the side cushion for my third cushion. All of the champions played end-side-side-(maybe end), which tends to kill the cue ball better.
3. The back row is critical. There are at least 10 contact points that contribute to how the rack breaks. In most racks some of those will be not touching.
4. I think that draw/follow is immaterial. By the time the cue ball gets to the rack at the speed it usually is struck at it will be rolling smoothly on the cloth. I don't think I've ever seen someone play the break and have draw on the cue ball when it arrived at the rack.
Click to expand...

I think that Bob hit the nail on the head especially with point #4, i think the Draw is just applied to Slow the cue ball down by the time it contacts the rack. so the player shooting it can strike it a little harder and have the draw slow the CB down. for some it is easier to control the speed of the CB this way.


-Steve
 
I assume everybody can see the diagram now. I don't know why Cuetable is blocking the diagram and trying to send us to their website.

I can see going end-side-side is best but I never really settled on one consistent method before.

I'd really like to confirm that a loose ball somewhere in the last or second row is responsible for the occasional bad break (prolly so if Bob says). I was playing around with the last row, trying to reproduce a bad break but didn't consider the contacts between last row and second row. I'll be much more picky about how well that first rack is done if so!
 
Dan White said:
I assume everybody can see the diagram now. I don't know why Cuetable is blocking the diagram and trying to send us to their website. ... !
Click to expand...
On the second point, it is the nature of website developers to want visitors to their sites. If we just look at the table here the website doesn't get any of the benefits of having visitors.

I found that the image of the table went from "Please see and discuss this table at..." to actually showing the layout when I reloaded the web page.
 
once you sign in over at Cue-Table, the table is viewable over here at AZ !!!

I have no problem with that Wei deserves to get the hits over at his site too, he is doing a great thing over there and he needs to get all the credit he deserves...he is good peeps !

-Steve
 
Dan White said:
... I'd really like to confirm that a loose ball somewhere in the last or second row is responsible for the occasional bad break (prolly so if Bob says). I was playing around with the last row, trying to reproduce a bad break but didn't consider the contacts between last row and second row. I'll be much more picky about how well that first rack is done if so!
Click to expand...
Here's an experiment you can do for yourself. Arrange a rack like in the diagram below. The last row is all solid, and the entire rest of the rack is solid, but the last row is shifted so that each ball in the last row touches only one of w-x-y-z. If you break from A my prediction is that you will get a near-perfect break with none of the 10 front balls moving. If you break from B there will be a lot more movement in the front 10 balls. Things will generally be more complicated with gaps in the last row, but this diagram illustrates that you need more than just the last row tight. It also shows that if the rack is perfectly tight you cannot get a perfect break -- w-x-y-z will be pushed some and the front of the rack has to open some.

A perfect 14.1 break can only happen with a rack that is bad in just the right way.
CropperCapture[6].png
 
could someone post a graphic or pdf of the original chart?

sorry to be a squeaky wheel for the umpteenth time: some of us cannot use CueTable.
 
Concerning Cuetable, I agree that Wei deserves a lot of thanks. The message that pops up doesn't just say "Register at Cuetable first in order to post these images to your favorite pool group." It asks you to visit their site and post over there. It implies that they want you to move the discussion to the Cuetable site. It's a little misleading in that way. This has always been freeware, so I'm happy to visit his site, which I do on occasion, but he might think about rewording that text.

Bob- that diagram is very interesting and makes sense. Maybe it's possible to take advantage of gaps and shoot from one side of the table vs the other ala Joe Tucker. Or, I guess if the table isn't dinged up you can just ask for a rerack.
 
At the risk of total confusion, I'd like to share what results work for me. I like the CB parallel to the long rail with the line of the corner ball I'm hitting. That ends up a lot closer to your "A" than anywhere else.

Also, the last two rows must be frozen and the balls should be at least semi-clean. Sometimes I'll roll the balls in the rack with my hand to help take any junk off them.

Lastly, and here is the point I'd like to share, (hope I explain it well enough to understand), there has to be a ton of running english on the CB for me so that it is rolling off the corner ball on its horizontal plane, spinning off and not rubbing off it. I devote total concentration to the opposite end Object Ball (the 1 ball in your diagram.). I envision that ball going to the rail and back in the pack. The rest of the shot takes care of itself.

The CB should hit the opposite long rail before coming to rest on the head rail. Hitting that opposite long rail kills the CB since running english only runs on adjacent rails.

If the CB goes from the long rail next to the rack directly to the head rail, it still has running english on it and will more than likely have no chance of freezing to the head rail.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
Here's an experiment you can do for yourself. Arrange a rack like in the diagram below. The last row is all solid, and the entire rest of the rack is solid, but the last row is shifted so that each ball in the last row touches only one of w-x-y-z. If you break from A my prediction is that you will get a near-perfect break with none of the 10 front balls moving. If you break from B there will be a lot more movement in the front 10 balls. Things will generally be more complicated with gaps in the last row, but this diagram illustrates that you need more than just the last row tight. It also shows that if the rack is perfectly tight you cannot get a perfect break -- w-x-y-z will be pushed some and the front of the rack has to open some.

A perfect 14.1 break can only happen with a rack that is bad in just the right way.
View attachment 210412
Click to expand...


Sorry, I'm just a bit confused, if the rack is perfectly tight we still won't get a perfect break? I've been checking the back row of the rack of every opening break I have to perform for each league match. Most specifically the corner balls. Does it even matter if the corner balls are touching their adjacent neighbors? I've also noticed in quite a few 14.1 matches on youtube or even accu stats that many of the players tend to twist their wrist inwards towards the end of their execution of their opening break. Have you noticed this as well? Just my imagination? Any reason to this? Is it considered bad sportsmanship to make a conscious effort to check the rack for an opening break to ensure no gaps are present?

Sorry for all the questions. Seeing this post has sparked interest in me as well since it's what I've been thinking recently in regards to a lot of my 14.1 matches.
 
BigAL said:
Sorry, I'm just a bit confused, if the rack is perfectly tight we still won't get a perfect break? I've been checking the back row of the rack of every opening break I have to perform for each league match. Most specifically the corner balls. Does it even matter if the corner balls are touching their adjacent neighbors? I've also noticed in quite a few 14.1 matches on youtube or even accu stats that many of the players tend to twist their wrist inwards towards the end of their execution of their opening break. Have you noticed this as well? Just my imagination? Any reason to this? Is it considered bad sportsmanship to make a conscious effort to check the rack for an opening break to ensure no gaps are present?

Sorry for all the questions. Seeing this post has sparked interest in me as well since it's what I've been thinking recently in regards to a lot of my 14.1 matches.
Click to expand...
Consider the second ball on the back of a tight rack. The ball that hits it -- the corner ball you're breaking on -- hits it straight along the line of balls. The ball compresses slightly during the collision with the middle ball and so it contacts the ball in the row in front of it. That gets the whole rack into the act.

Wrist twist does not have any useful, physical function but maybe the player gets some kind of psychological boost from it. I have not noticed that players do such idiosyncratic things more on the break shot.

It's OK to check the rack. You may see that it is better to break on one side rather than the other.
 
I know I'm stating the obvious but the biggest variable of all is the shooter. I don't think it's possible to strike the cb in the exact same spot with the exact same speed and contact the exact same point on the rack time after time. You will be close, but never exact, and I believe that it changes the results fairly significantly. At least, that's been my experience.
 
FranCrimi said:
I know I'm stating the obvious but the biggest variable of all is the shooter. I don't think it's possible to strike the cb in the exact same spot with the exact same speed and contact the exact same point on the rack time after time. You will be close, but never exact, and I believe that it changes the results fairly significantly. At least, that's been my experience.
Click to expand...

Hey Fran!

How did you do in playoffs yesterday afternoon? Wish I could've given you more of a game. Maybe next time. You shot very well and I could see you were gaining a lot of momentum towards the end. Congrats to you. :thumbup:

In regards to this post, my opening break was placed towards position B, hit the corner ball too full and brought out more balls out of the stack than I wanted to. I've been trying to figure out the opening break for the longest and remember watching a video of Dallas West placing the CB as the OP has discovered at position C which does resemble a 9 ball position break spot. With results where two balls touch a rail and basiclaly return to their original position. I need to try and perhaps practice that asap so I don't leave shots out in the open.
 
I played around with cue ball starting points again on my home table and got completely different results! I guess I know why I always used to shoot from point A. That gives me the best results on my home table. The balls behaved completely differently at the pool hall, with C giving the best result. Maybe this is something to look out for when playing on a new table???
 
BigAL said:
Hey Fran!

How did you do in playoffs yesterday afternoon? Wish I could've given you more of a game. Maybe next time. You shot very well and I could see you were gaining a lot of momentum towards the end. Congrats to you. :thumbup:

In regards to this post, my opening break was placed towards position B, hit the corner ball too full and brought out more balls out of the stack than I wanted to. I've been trying to figure out the opening break for the longest and remember watching a video of Dallas West placing the CB as the OP has discovered at position C which does resemble a 9 ball position break spot. With results where two balls touch a rail and basiclaly return to their original position. I need to try and perhaps practice that asap so I don't leave shots out in the open.
Click to expand...


Hey Al! Thanks! I lost the next match for various frustrating reasons. You are a gentleman and a good sportsman, and that means more than anything in this game. I see good things in your game and I know you will do well in the future.

Anyway, I've seen a lot of opening break shots over the years by a lot of top level professionals, and they really do vary. I try to focus on speed control to try to leave the cb as close to the top rail as possible. I figure whatever shot I leave my opponent, it's not going to be an easy one with the cb sitting on the top rail.
 
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