It's The CB

[JB Cases]

Whatever works for you, I guess. Or for svb.

And I'm not theorizing about others. I've had this discussion at various tournaments (and not started bby me either) and I've a pretty good idea what true players do and don't do. I'm talking about most of the older players who are now long dead. I've played quite a few of those who were in Varner's generation also. But that was a long time ago before systems became the fashion.

I'm curious when you say you look at the edge. Do you see a disc, or just one edge?

Mind you, I've been accused of being over analytical as well. But that was quite a few years ago.

Ultimately that is ALL it comes down to. Dave Segal, a big aiming system proponent on this site, has said repeatedly that pool is really easy to keep score in by looking at whether the ball went in or not. Billy Incardona said he prefers to play for money because that's real easy to keep score on, are you ahead or not.

So for all the put downs and crap people sling here it all comes down to each person knowing for themselves if what they are doing is working for them. I know it by using Dave and Billy's methods of keeping score.

I really don't want to get into how I aim here. This thread was somewhat maliciously started by someone who just wanted to put down those of us who like to mess around with aiming systems. I stated that when I learned to aim using systems my cue ball control got way better.

But the guy who started the thread didn't want to hear that. He was only interested in putting down anyone who doesn't subscribe 100% and only to the hit a million balls method of getting better.

I too have been to events where some of us talk about methods and techniques. No one gets hot and calls the other guys suckers. It's all friendly sharing of knowledge and ideas.

People naturally look for all the ways possible to do things. That's where progress in all fields comes from. There is almost never only one way to do something. Especially something so invisible as a human being aiming one object at another object. We use whatever we need to help us get there, be it imaginary balls, imaginary grey gutters, light reflections, shadows, portions of overlap, ferrules, centers and edges of the balls, whatever, all of it is in service of finding a place to stand and bend down and shoot the ball.

Its the same for pros as it is for amateurs. Only the pros have mostly settled on something that they trust and have moved on to working on their mental toughness under pressure.

 

[champ2107]

I've been around. Mostly east of the Mississippi. In the days when one mostly drove from town to town, the west was simply too damn big. Mind you Vegas was always there. In those days getting comped was easy enough once they found you.

As far as more details they'll come out as I tell my stories. But don't expect a name. That didn't happen then and it ain't gonna happen now.

im guessing you must have crossed paths with jay helfert at one time?

 

[Choir Boy]

btw, when I registered Mike got my real email address. I guarantee you he didn't recognize the name. So I do try to be straightforward. That is always good for business in the end.

I do hope he respects my choosing to keep it unknown, at least for now.

 

[Choir Boy]

Don't know him off hand. Where's he from?

 

[champ2107]

you kind of peaked my interest as to who you are...care to share a entertaining story with us?

 

[Choir Boy]

Ultimately that is ALL it comes down to. Dave Segal, a big aiming system proponent on this site, has said repeatedly that pool is really easy to keep score in by looking at whether the ball went in or not. Billy Incardona said he prefers to play for money because that's real easy to keep score on, are you ahead or not.

So for all the put downs and crap people sling here it all comes down to each person knowing for themselves if what they are doing is working for them. I know it by using Dave and Billy's methods of keeping score.

I really don't want to get into how I aim here. This thread was somewhat maliciously started by someone who just wanted to put down those of us who like to mess around with aiming systems. I stated that when I learned to aim using systems my cue ball control got way better.

But the guy who started the thread didn't want to hear that. He was only interested in putting down anyone who doesn't subscribe 100% and only to the hit a million balls method of getting better.

I too have been to events where some of us talk about methods and techniques. No one gets hot and calls the other guys suckers. It's all friendly sharing of knowledge and ideas.

People naturally look for all the ways possible to do things. That's where progress in all fields comes from. There is almost never only one way to do something. Especially something so invisible as a human being aiming one object at another object. We use whatever we need to help us get there, be it imaginary balls, imaginary grey gutters, light reflections, shadows, portions of overlap, ferrules, centers and edges of the balls, whatever, all of it is in service of finding a place to stand and bend down and shoot the ball.

Its the same for pros as it is for amateurs. Only the pros have mostly settled on something that they trust and have moved on to working on their mental toughness under pressure.

Billie knows how to keep score all right. I heard Frantone isno longer with us. Is this true?

It's a shame folks can't keep an open mind on the net. It's a camn powerful tool and should be used with respect.

Mental toughness is an interesting thing. There's good days and bad days. For me the key was always keeping score as you've mentioned, but also being able to raise your game when needed. There's beauty in that.

 

[JB Cases]

Aiming is the next to last step in a shot. The last step is the stroke.

The first step is knowing what you are gonna do base on the table layout and your opponents play and your on play.

Until you know where you are going to put the OB, you do not know where to put the CB to make the OB and CB go where you want.

Until you know how much spin and what type of stroke you are gonna use, you do not know where to put the CB to make the OB and CB go where you want.

Until you pick the spot on the rail for the OB to hit for a bank shot, you do not know where to put the CB to make the OB to hit that spot.

You can not aim until you decide what to do, what stroke speed you are using.

Until all these factors are taken into account, you have no idea where to put the CB on the table to make the OB or CB go where you want.

You do not pick a spot on the table for the CB and then take these factors into account, that's ass backwards.

But hey, I'm a no name, barely run two balls kinda a player.

No Duckie. You look at where the cueball needs to go and then you see if you can get it there.

Aiming is the FIRST thing you do when going into the shot. You MUST send the cue ball down a specific path to get to to make the ball AND then go to where you want it to go.

But guess what buddy?

You can make the ball because you aimed it perfectly and still not send the cue ball where you wanted. In fact this happens a lot to amateurs which is why they stay amateurs.

OR

You can aim wrong trying to get shape and miss the ball and get perfect shape. Happens all the time.

The fact of is that to make the shot AND get shape you need to AIM first and execute properly second. That's it. Simple.

Of course it helps if you KNOW what will will happen when you hit the cue ball at x with y speed. How do you know this?

With practice silly. But without aiming right you might not ever really KNOW why you are missing or why you can't get the cue ball to go a certain way consistently.

Heard this on chat the other day.

Buddy Hall said to JR Calvert, "there is only one decision you have to make on your shot, shoot or duck". Don't make it more complicated than that.

Shoot or Duck, aim accordingly.

 

[JB Cases]

Billie knows how to keep score all right. I heard Frantone isno longer with us. Is this true?

It's a shame folks can't keep an open mind on the net. It's a camn powerful tool and should be used with respect.

Mental toughness is an interesting thing. There's good days and bad days. For me the key was always keeping score as you've mentioned, but also being able to raise your game when needed. There's beauty in that.

If you mean Cardona he is alive and kicking. Right now in action in Louisville at the Derby City Classic.

Yep, being able to dig deeper and find another gear and being able to come off the stall at will are highly underrated skills and in my mind is the main thing that separates the good players from the great players. At some point everyone knows how to shoot but who can do with their back to the wall?

 

[Choir Boy]

Got this one from someone who should know.

Guy walks into a room over a bakery. Says he's from out of town and likes to play for money. Has his own stick. Houseman says the young kid in the corner will play you. Guy says he means real money. At least a couple hundred bucks. (this was ibn the early sixties, so it was a fair amount. A couple weeks pay for someone with kids and a decent job.)

The kid in the corner says ok, race to ten for 300. Guy flips a coin. The kid wins the flip. He breaks and runs ten racks. Guy puts his stick back in his case, pays the money. Says this town is too tough for him and politely leaves.

The kid was Bill Incardona. The room was The Corner Pocket on Murray Avenue. When you see him, ask him what his dad did for a living.

 

[Choir Boy]

Mr. Cases, I see we agree on the correct order for aiming. lol

Ask JR if he likes ring games. Haven't seen him in quite a few years. Hear he's a bit better these days. Engineering school didn't agree with him.

 

[Choir Boy]

Frantone is Bill's brother. Was a dealer in Vegas, last I heard, but that's quite a wile ago. Not sure if that's how to spell his name, never saw it on paper, only heard it.

 

[Ratta]

these discussions can be interesting as long you keep an open mind
................................

Just this sentence is almost a big rep worth champ
But it seems that several ppl having a problem to be open minded^^

have a smooth stroke,

Ingo

 

[pt109]

btw, when I registered Mike got my real email address. I guarantee you he didn't recognize the name. So I do try to be straightforward. That is always good for business in the end.

I do hope he respects my choosing to keep it unknown, at least for now.

Personally, I'd like to welcome you to the forum, Choir Boy.
I think your posts are going to get even more interesting.

regards
pt

 

[pt109]

Just this sentence is almost a big rep worth champ
But it seems that several ppl having a problem to be open minded^^

have a smooth stroke,

Ingo

If all the threads that discussed aiming were as civilized as this one....
..I would read them more.
I'm enjoying this.

 

[JB Cases]

If all the threads that discussed aiming were as civilized as this one....
..I would read them more.
I'm enjoying this.

They would be if people would live and let live. Some people treat discussions about aiming as if they are the Spanish Inquisitors tasked to defend the realm from heresy.

 

[cfrandy]

They would be if people would live and let live. Some people treat discussions about aiming as if they are the Spanish Inquisitors tasked to defend the realm from heresy.

If you REALLY believed what you said, you would be commenting on the subject of the thread and NOT on the opinions of others. Everyone has a right to their opinion without being verbally molested! Feel free to express YOUR opinion vehemently, but stop telling everyone else your right and they are wrong. That is inflammatory and rude!

 

[cfrandy]

All this talk about CET has intrigued me. So on the recommendation of Randy G, I have order Stan Shuffett's new video CTE/PRO ONE® Aiming System.. I'll review it after I get it. Those of you who live closer to Randy G. might want to give him a call!

 

[champ2107]

All this talk about CET has intrigued me. So on the recommendation of Randy G, I have order Stan Shuffett's new video CTE/PRO ONE® Aiming System.. I'll review it after I get it. Those of you who live closer to Randy G. might want to give him a call!

hopefully later today i can make it to a table and i will give you some behind the ball visuals that will speed up your learning and understanding process of cte/pro1 and a few other tips. Also i have noticed this system will make you very aware of any glitches in your stroke,mental toughness (being able to stay focused shot after shot) attention to detail.

I was also told about how to shoot another cte system by a member and will video my attempt to learn it, im pretty sure i will pick it up quickly too from what i read. I will not show details on how its done and i will leave it up to that member to reveal himself and discuss it since he passed his info on to me.

 

[JB Cases]

If you REALLY believed what you said, you would be commenting on the subject of the thread and NOT on the opinions of others. Everyone has a right to their opinion without being verbally molested! Feel free to express YOUR opinion vehemently, but stop telling everyone else your right and they are wrong. That is inflammatory and rude!

Randy please go back to the FIRST post you put into this thread. Look at my answer.


This is it:

01-23-2012, 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfrandy
Read this Article: http://www.sfbilliards.com/PnB_aiming.pdf
Frankly, if you need to "think" about aiming every shot, you will never be able to "focus" on what you need to do to get to the next shot! Once you lose your inning, you lose control of the pool game!


Wrong.

Once you have the line you are down on the shot and ONLY focusing on what you need to do to get to the next shot.


My answer in blue.

How can you possibly see any personal attack or "verbal molestation" in that simple answer?

Seems to me that you are specifically LOOKING for it and willing to invent it. The subsequent posts by you were hostile and increasingly nasty to the point of you playing the racist China card AGAIN.

 

[Maniac]

Damn John, do you ever sleep??? :grin:

Maniac (8+ hours a night, plus 1 1/2-hour afternoon nap :thumbup