are custom cues really worth the $ ?
- Thread starter lorider
- Start date
Wow, that was condescending.
mr deanoc, i understand you are a highly respected flipper, dealer or cue collector. actually i am not sure which but i have read quite a few of your posts in the for sale section to realize you may be one or all of the above.
i respect your opinion and i hope you respect mine. just because i dont have the financial ability to pay 67,5000.00 for richard blacks rockola or 75,000.00 for the ivory handled arthur cue does not mean i dont have a brain.
i understand some cues are bought just for an investment, just like investing in certain artists oil paintings or for that matter antique cars.
i will never knock someone who is succesfull enough to spend that kind of money. actually i am happy for them. why do you want to knock some one who cant afford that luxury ?
btw my original post was not about those class of cues or cuemakers.
for what it is worth, you are right about a few things. i have realized i can play just as well with a production cue as i can with a custom.
i have a 16 point ivory,abalone and silver cue.the only reason i bought it was as you stated , an investment. again, this is not what my origional post was about.
as far as talking about this subject, i think it is just as relevant as any other subject that comes up on this forum.
hope my reply was also:grin:
Nope. Which is good, because I don't want to have to spell it again. Three friggin degrees and I had to use spell check for that. LOL!
Well said man. Well said. :thumbup:
Custom worth the money, ask a guy who has had a Suit Made to Fit His Body, not off the RACK, and ALTERED to Kind of Fit his Body kind of close.
I use to wear a Suit Everyday to work, Once a YEAR I went to a Hotel in Pasadena, CA where a guy from Hong Kong came to make up Suits, Sport Coats, Slacks & Shirts to his customer measurements. He measured you, when over his cloths, styles, fabrics, buttons choices, ties that made it all look right, and in 6 weeks your order arrived. Price were fair, and every thing fit like a Custom Made Glove!
Custom was worth the price, and wait IMHO!
I use to wear a Suit Everyday to work, Once a YEAR I went to a Hotel in Pasadena, CA where a guy from Hong Kong came to make up Suits, Sport Coats, Slacks & Shirts to his customer measurements. He measured you, when over his cloths, styles, fabrics, buttons choices, ties that made it all look right, and in 6 weeks your order arrived. Price were fair, and every thing fit like a Custom Made Glove!
Custom was worth the price, and wait IMHO!
Are custom cues worth it? Only you can answer that, since people value worth very differently.
1. There is nothing inherently special about a custom cue that makes it perform better than a quality made production cue. It won't pocket a ball that you couldn't pocket with a production cue.
2. Custom cues have a value in that you can have them customized. Specific tapers, ferrule lengths, materials, weight, balance, butt thickness, wraps....most if not all things can be customized to your liking. A production cue can also be tweaked or customized in *some* aspects, but not to the degree a custom is, since a custom is built from scratch to your preferences.
3. Custom cues often retain value better than production cues, but not all custom cues are collectable or offer a decent return. Some don't offer any return and even are a loss of money. Of course, condition varies (new vs. used). But simply being a custom cue means nothing as to whether or not the value will increase. It's like anything else that is collectable, a collector must know what is what, and which customs will later be collectable and more valuable. It's quite easy to lose money on a custom cue. With what cue makers are charging these days, it's almost a sure thing you'll lose on the cue if you use it as a daily player. Unless it is from those select, special cue makers who have a name, reputation and demand for their cues. Those appreciate in value. But these cue makers are already in high demand, and demand high prices and long waits for cues.
My advice:
If you're really picky, and have a lot of preferences and specs that you need customized that goes beyond what can be done on a production cue, then you're a good candidate for a custom. If you don't need so many customizations, you should be fine with a good quality production. Other than that, the only interest for a custom is collectability, at which point - if you're asking that kind of question, you're technically "not in the game" when it comes to the collector and dealer's market.
1. There is nothing inherently special about a custom cue that makes it perform better than a quality made production cue. It won't pocket a ball that you couldn't pocket with a production cue.
2. Custom cues have a value in that you can have them customized. Specific tapers, ferrule lengths, materials, weight, balance, butt thickness, wraps....most if not all things can be customized to your liking. A production cue can also be tweaked or customized in *some* aspects, but not to the degree a custom is, since a custom is built from scratch to your preferences.
3. Custom cues often retain value better than production cues, but not all custom cues are collectable or offer a decent return. Some don't offer any return and even are a loss of money. Of course, condition varies (new vs. used). But simply being a custom cue means nothing as to whether or not the value will increase. It's like anything else that is collectable, a collector must know what is what, and which customs will later be collectable and more valuable. It's quite easy to lose money on a custom cue. With what cue makers are charging these days, it's almost a sure thing you'll lose on the cue if you use it as a daily player. Unless it is from those select, special cue makers who have a name, reputation and demand for their cues. Those appreciate in value. But these cue makers are already in high demand, and demand high prices and long waits for cues.
My advice:
If you're really picky, and have a lot of preferences and specs that you need customized that goes beyond what can be done on a production cue, then you're a good candidate for a custom. If you don't need so many customizations, you should be fine with a good quality production. Other than that, the only interest for a custom is collectability, at which point - if you're asking that kind of question, you're technically "not in the game" when it comes to the collector and dealer's market.
OP
Just do your homework on the custom cuemaker that you may want to order a cue from.
If you find that they have a bad reputation then don't buy from them.
If you find a few reputable cue makers that you think can build you a quality cue at a reasonable price (something you can afford), then them how long it will take to get you your dream cue. If it is longer than you would like to wait, find another customer cue maker.
You have a lot of posts on AZ and I'm kind of surprised at your statements about cue makers and questions about what you should do.
If you buy a custom cue from a dealer. Nothing wrong with that except the cue has already been built. But then again, not everyone has a good design sense for ordering a custom cue so maybe the cue that is already custom made, might be your best choice. There are so many to choose from and most are reputable businessmen and might send you the cue to inspect and possibly hit a couple balls before you decide 100%.
As an example, I know Bill at Cornerstone and he had always sent me a cue before I decide to purchase. I sent back a few but I bought several over a few years also.
There are fantastic cues from Predator and Mezz that you might love as well.
No one here can tell you 100% what you should do. And how can you take anyones word anyway? Do it the old fashion way - go with that YOU think will be best for you. This goes for questions like:
What is the best tip?
What wraps are the best?
What is the best weight for a cue?
What ferrel should I use?
How should I aim?
What is best aiming system, CTE or Ghost Ball?
Who could win: Karate or Kung fu?
--Jeff
Just do your homework on the custom cuemaker that you may want to order a cue from.
If you find that they have a bad reputation then don't buy from them.
If you find a few reputable cue makers that you think can build you a quality cue at a reasonable price (something you can afford), then them how long it will take to get you your dream cue. If it is longer than you would like to wait, find another customer cue maker.
You have a lot of posts on AZ and I'm kind of surprised at your statements about cue makers and questions about what you should do.
If you buy a custom cue from a dealer. Nothing wrong with that except the cue has already been built. But then again, not everyone has a good design sense for ordering a custom cue so maybe the cue that is already custom made, might be your best choice. There are so many to choose from and most are reputable businessmen and might send you the cue to inspect and possibly hit a couple balls before you decide 100%.
As an example, I know Bill at Cornerstone and he had always sent me a cue before I decide to purchase. I sent back a few but I bought several over a few years also.
There are fantastic cues from Predator and Mezz that you might love as well.
No one here can tell you 100% what you should do. And how can you take anyones word anyway? Do it the old fashion way - go with that YOU think will be best for you. This goes for questions like:
What is the best tip?
What wraps are the best?
What is the best weight for a cue?
What ferrel should I use?
How should I aim?
What is best aiming system, CTE or Ghost Ball?
Who could win: Karate or Kung fu?
--Jeff
OMG!!!....this is CLASSIC!!!!!!!! :rotflmao1:
i think if a person has adesire to play somewhat serius pool he is better off with a good custom cue
i would buy a schon,knowing i had a great cue
expecting to shoot better with something else would not enter my mind
if my goals were different than simply playing pool,such as investment
i would definitely buy what i thought would increase in value,or please my other
taste,
i have done all of these things and found them to be well worth the money.
last week i found a hoppe style scruggs with a dealer here on az, he gave me a good price and because of his reputation,i bought with confidence,
it never enters my mind to care whether a person is making a profit or not,my only concern is if its a cue i like and is the price right. i do not mind paying a little more from an established dealer because then if something goes wrong i have someone reputable to look to
as an example i did several deals with bill grassly,over the length of time a cue maker failed to deliver the cues i sol to bill.
he was aware this could happen and refused my offer to reimburse him saying it was not my fault, later i gave him a nice manzino to show my appreciation.
even later the cue maker,under pressure,sent bill his cues
the only point i make is i like buying from dealers i trust,i thought the tenor of this post was to cast aspersions on dealers,and i wanted to explain why i thought this was
unjust
please forget my earlier remarks, they were indeed uncalled for
dean
i would buy a schon,knowing i had a great cue
expecting to shoot better with something else would not enter my mind
if my goals were different than simply playing pool,such as investment
i would definitely buy what i thought would increase in value,or please my other
taste,
i have done all of these things and found them to be well worth the money.
last week i found a hoppe style scruggs with a dealer here on az, he gave me a good price and because of his reputation,i bought with confidence,
it never enters my mind to care whether a person is making a profit or not,my only concern is if its a cue i like and is the price right. i do not mind paying a little more from an established dealer because then if something goes wrong i have someone reputable to look to
as an example i did several deals with bill grassly,over the length of time a cue maker failed to deliver the cues i sol to bill.
he was aware this could happen and refused my offer to reimburse him saying it was not my fault, later i gave him a nice manzino to show my appreciation.
even later the cue maker,under pressure,sent bill his cues
the only point i make is i like buying from dealers i trust,i thought the tenor of this post was to cast aspersions on dealers,and i wanted to explain why i thought this was
unjust
please forget my earlier remarks, they were indeed uncalled for
dean
One other thing to remember
The higher the pedestal... the harder the fall...
JV
The higher the pedestal... the harder the fall...
JV
i was taken aback somewhat by your 1st post and after reading this post i can understand why you posted what you did in the 1st post.
on the internet it is often easy to take words out of context, after all they are just words. when you dont have the physical interaction ie; facial expression, body language and tone of voice it is sometimes easy to misconstrue the point they are trying to get across.
it was not my intention to demonize cue flippers or dealers in my post. i dont begrudge you and others like you making a living. you do present the opportunity for people to purchase a cue without having to wait on a list.
most people make the argument that a custom is better than a production because you can order it to your specs. i was saying buying from a dealer defeats that argument because it is already built. i will not argue a custom is higher quality than a production.
the scenario you presented above is what the gist of my post is about. failure to deliver a product as promised , finally doing so when pressure was applied.
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My thoughts are you have managed to overstate the downside and ignore
all the good reasons for buying a custom cue.
There are examples of all the situations you cite, but that is
mostly because people tend to bitc$h up a storm when displeased
but set mute as a stone when satisfied.
How many custom cues would you guess have been delivered in the last
10 years without any complaints or disapointments.
Again, not saying there are no problems, there are plenty, but it is a
very small percentage of cues - from a fraction of makers.
Sounds like you have a WalMart attitude in a Stravarius market,
so to speak. If the time, hassels, etc aren't worth it to you - don't do it.
Truth is, it is well worth it to many people - and much more often than
not, few, if any issues are involved.
Dale
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since you are a cuemaker it sounds like you are taking this thread personaly.
i have not overstated or downplayed anything. mostly asked for opinions of what they thought about the issues of dealing with custom cuemakers.
i do not care for walmart personaly. last time i was in a walmart was last year.
i look at the cue gallery every time i log on, it is full of happy customers but the fact is still there that everytime a poster starts a thread complaining about certain cuemakers you have several more joining in with the same complaint. mostly poor customer service ie; missed deadlines, lack of communication and when you do hear from them it is outright lies.
let me explain my viewpoint on dealing with a customer.
i used to be a manager for a utility contractor. i had to go to a meeting with our major customer which happens to be the largest telephone provider in the us. we had just got a contract in a new area and wanted to go over some issues they were faced with, mainly a backlog of work they needed completed.
upon explaining the type of work, the area covered , amount of backlog involved and a projected volume of new work coming out i was required to immediatley give them a projected date of getting the backlog caught up and staying current on new projects.
upon doing some quick figuring i gave them a time frame. one of their managers stated that was not acceptable. i stated they did not get in that situation overnight and i coul not get them out of it overnight. one of them said that was not what he wanted to hear, i replied did he want me to say what he wanted to hear or did he want me to tell him the truth. their regional manager interjected and stated my timeframe was good enough for him if i could meet it. well it took some doin but i met it.
all i am saying is do not say the check is in the mail and you have not even wrote it out yet.
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My understanding of the OP's original post is pretty simple...I thought. It's not about custom vs production....it's not about dealers vs direct order. What it IS about....I think, I hope....is why is it, even tho' a history of 'issues' may be known about a desired maker, be it missed deadlines, falsehoods, or lack of communication...people will still literally pay desired maker for essentially being abused?!
Although....now that I think about it....there is a whole sector of people who gladly pay for that very thing. :yikes:
Although....now that I think about it....there is a whole sector of people who gladly pay for that very thing. :yikes:
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To kind of stay with the original question...I sell my basic customs for less than the cost of most production cues...Not many can say that. As far as the wait, I usually do pretty well (a couple of months). I have ran behind, but nothing too bad. ......I think they are definitely worth it. That is just my opinion. :thumbup:
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