From what I have been seeing recently pool hall owners do not seem to care what the conditions of there equipment is, so they do not need good mechanics. They appear to do the absolute minimum with the least skilled people they can find until of course they find someone cheaper..
WE need a decent ppol hall in Dallas
- Thread starter deanoc
- Start date
Fixing the tables up to play right, and maintaining the tables go hand in hand...and I do agree, if the right room was to open, they'd end up with most all the business from the customers that DO care
My opinion!
I have a couple of friends who own a pool room and although its nice if the table is covered and plays correctly, that ancillary to making money and keeping the lights on. He has long since understood that the people who care the most how level the table is and and how true the rails bounce are not the people that he make the rent off of. He has said for many year, you dont make money on pool players. Its the people who want to come out with their friends and have some drinks and knock the balls around. Thats who spends the consistent money and bring friends. Lets face it, its about staying in business these days. There are a few places that hold big events once or twice a year that usually focuses on making sure their equipment is playing right, but overall most pool halls just want to packed the place at least 4 or 5 nites a week with drinkers. When I buy my diamond, I will pay a mechanic to make sure my table is at it full potential its worth the investment.
FC
I have a couple of friends who own a pool room and although its nice if the table is covered and plays correctly, that ancillary to making money and keeping the lights on. He has long since understood that the people who care the most how level the table is and and how true the rails bounce are not the people that he make the rent off of. He has said for many year, you dont make money on pool players. Its the people who want to come out with their friends and have some drinks and knock the balls around. Thats who spends the consistent money and bring friends. Lets face it, its about staying in business these days. There are a few places that hold big events once or twice a year that usually focuses on making sure their equipment is playing right, but overall most pool halls just want to packed the place at least 4 or 5 nites a week with drinkers. When I buy my diamond, I will pay a mechanic to make sure my table is at it full potential its worth the investment.
FC
I have lived in DFW all of my 47 years. So I know about the places to play and have been to many of them. What exactly makes a pool hall decent?
Let's assume you were going to open up a decent pool hall in DFW... aside from table quality, what would you do differently compared to the other places around the area (and still make a profit)?
I think a nice Billiards club with a monthly membership fee might work. Sort of like a health club. The place would have nice well maintained tables, lockers, pro shop and a bar. Atmosphere would be conducive to competition... no smoking, loud music, poker or darts. Nice viewing area to watch matches. Big screen TV at the bar with an overhead view of main playing table and the occasional sporting event. A stripper pole would also be nice but most likely would not see use
Let's assume you were going to open up a decent pool hall in DFW... aside from table quality, what would you do differently compared to the other places around the area (and still make a profit)?
I think a nice Billiards club with a monthly membership fee might work. Sort of like a health club. The place would have nice well maintained tables, lockers, pro shop and a bar. Atmosphere would be conducive to competition... no smoking, loud music, poker or darts. Nice viewing area to watch matches. Big screen TV at the bar with an overhead view of main playing table and the occasional sporting event. A stripper pole would also be nice but most likely would not see use
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Interesting.
FC
Pretty nice idea, but in talking with my friend who has owned a pool hall in waco tx for 30 years has told me. The savior of his business as been getting league players in there 3 nights a week. He has seen a 50% jump in business in the last 2 years. Thats a big piece of a successful pool hall. You get a good league playing a few nights out of your place, you will have a real shot. He also offers the league players drink and pool special on non league nights. Its amazing how a free beer or drink and 10 dollar all night pool will do for your business.I have lived in DFW all of my 47 years. So I know about the places to play and have been to many of them. What exactly makes a pool hall decent?
Let's assume you were going to open up a decent pool hall in DFW... aside from table quality, what would you do differently compared to the other places around the area (and still make a profit)?
I think a nice Billiards club with a monthly membership fee might work. Sort of like a health club. The place would have nice well maintained tables, lockers, pro shop and a bar. Atmosphere would be conducive to competition... no smoking, loud music, poker or darts. Nice viewing area to watch matches. Big screen TV at the bar with an overhead view of main playing table and the occasional sporting event. A stripper pole would also be nice but most likely would not see use
FC
it is a hard pill to swallow
It is a hard pill to swallow that most of the things that make a pool hall profitable are what serious pool players like least, leagues being near the top of the list.
Hu
It is a hard pill to swallow that most of the things that make a pool hall profitable are what serious pool players like least, leagues being near the top of the list.
Hu
What about a private club/room?
I've heard of private pool rooms and clubs up north. I've never been to one but imagine that they offer no frills and simply quality tables and players. Private poker rooms are well known throughout the country in the right crowds. Why couldn't a private pool room exist in the DFW area? Members pay rates, or make reservations to play on quality tables, gamble in private/public and the house takes a percentage. Would be interesting to see what resources would be required and could be put together to make this happen. I've been following DSoriano's build of a private room from the ground up, while he's an engineer and makes it look easy, he is making it happen in his spare time. A larger room could easily be built or rented out, tables found for cheap, no food, BYOB,....... keep it simple.
I've heard of private pool rooms and clubs up north. I've never been to one but imagine that they offer no frills and simply quality tables and players. Private poker rooms are well known throughout the country in the right crowds. Why couldn't a private pool room exist in the DFW area? Members pay rates, or make reservations to play on quality tables, gamble in private/public and the house takes a percentage. Would be interesting to see what resources would be required and could be put together to make this happen. I've been following DSoriano's build of a private room from the ground up, while he's an engineer and makes it look easy, he is making it happen in his spare time. A larger room could easily be built or rented out, tables found for cheap, no food, BYOB,....... keep it simple.
Agreed. But a Billiards Club (with membership dues like I described above) could have an in house league for members. Handicapped and non handicapped, for 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool and one pocket. Payout for top three finishes. The club could also hold regional tournemament stops and sell temporary memberships to spectators. There could also be instructional clinics offered on weekends.
I am serious, why couldnt you have a private billiards club that uses the league night business model but caters to the pool players needs?
Okay, here is a summary...
Billiards club with a monthly membership fee located in the center of DFW. Grapevine would be a nice location.
The club uses the league night business model but caters to the pool players need.Leagues are handicapped and non handicapped, for 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool and one pocket. Payout for top three finishes.
The club will hold regional tournemament stops and sell temporary memberships to spectators.
Instructional clinics offered on weekends. Private lessons available.
The place would have nice well maintained tables, lockers, pro shop and a bar. Atmosphere would be conducive to competition... no smoking, loud music, poker or darts. Nice viewing area to watch matches. Big screen TV at the bar with an overhead view of main playing table and the occasional sporting event.
And most importantly, clean restrooms!!!!
Billiards club with a monthly membership fee located in the center of DFW. Grapevine would be a nice location.
The club uses the league night business model but caters to the pool players need.Leagues are handicapped and non handicapped, for 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool and one pocket. Payout for top three finishes.
The club will hold regional tournemament stops and sell temporary memberships to spectators.
Instructional clinics offered on weekends. Private lessons available.
The place would have nice well maintained tables, lockers, pro shop and a bar. Atmosphere would be conducive to competition... no smoking, loud music, poker or darts. Nice viewing area to watch matches. Big screen TV at the bar with an overhead view of main playing table and the occasional sporting event.
And most importantly, clean restrooms!!!!
Even simpler?
I don't even know if it has to be on that large of a scale (lockers, bar, pro-shop, etc....), to me keeping it simple keeps it financially feasible. I think a members league is a great idea. I would love playing against strong but fair competition around the area. I was thinking the room could even operate on a volunteer basis with members sharing nights to man the hall, run tourneys etc... Could be like a Knights of Columbus for billiards enthusiasts where the hall gets used as needed but doesn't have to turn a profit to be viable, just exist for the betterment of its members, and satisfy its operating costs....
I don't even know if it has to be on that large of a scale (lockers, bar, pro-shop, etc....), to me keeping it simple keeps it financially feasible. I think a members league is a great idea. I would love playing against strong but fair competition around the area. I was thinking the room could even operate on a volunteer basis with members sharing nights to man the hall, run tourneys etc... Could be like a Knights of Columbus for billiards enthusiasts where the hall gets used as needed but doesn't have to turn a profit to be viable, just exist for the betterment of its members, and satisfy its operating costs....
I like that idea too. I would participate.
It's a great idea, but I'm just not sure it works. I don't mean to rain on anybody's parade. Look, I'm a Banker (Chief Credit Officer) and I review small business and business plans all day every day. I finance 2 country clubs and it's a tough business model.
Don't get me wrong, if a billiard club was available where I live, I would join.
I don't know the DFW pool scene, but lets say 100 pool players in the DFW would join this club. And, lets say they pay $100/month membership fee. That's $10,000/month. Rent would run somewhere around $9 to $12 per square foot (could be a little off on the number cause I'm not that familiar with the DFW market). Let's say you keep it relatively small at 5,000 sq ft (that's about the size of Chesters in OKC). Annual rent is anywhere for $45,000 to $60,000. That would result in monthly rent of $3,750 to $5,000.
Lets assume utilities run somewhere around $800 to $1,200 a month. One of the room owners might comment about whether this number is in the ball park.
You will have to have some insurance. I really don't know what it would cost, but let's assume $500 month.
You have to have someone running it. Lets say its open 16 hours a day and you only have 1 person working per shift. You pay them $12/hour times 16 hours is $192 a day times 30 days a month is $5,760/month. That's not even counting the stuff employers have to pay.
Now you have to buy the equip. Lets say you put in 10 tables. Purchase, delivery, and set up is $5,000 per table. That's $50,000. Let's say you have other equip/misc of $20,000. We'll assume the leasehold improvement on the building will be covered by the landlord if you sign a long-term lease, with your personal guaranty of course. You have $70,000 in equipment you have to pay for. If you could charge a one time up front membership fee in addition to the monthly fee, you pay for it that way. If not, lets say a bank finances 80% of the purchase price for 5 years at 5% interest. That's $1,052/month in payments.
This is just rough numbers, but believe me when I say there are always costs and monthly expenses that are overlooked in the planning stage.
Monthly income $10,000
Less:
Rent (5,000)
Utilities (1,200)
Insurance (500)
Wages (5,760)
Loan Payments (1,052)
Monthly cash (3,512)
I know I've been pretty negative about this idea, but I actually like the idea. It's just not a business model that works. The key to success is having enough upper-middle class professionals who really like pool and are willing to pay for a private billiard club. The reason I say upper-middle class is because they have the disposable income to support this business model. I'm just not sure any market has enough of them to make it work.
In the 80's and early 90's up-scale pool rooms targeting upper-middle class was the thing. That didn't workout to well.
Chesters is one of the most successful pool rooms I've seen. I've never seen their books, but it appears to me, where they make it work is APA and BCA pool leagues and Friday/Saturday nights when the the place is packed with a bunch of snot nosed kids (want-to-be badboys) spending their parents money.
Another way to do something would be to find 20 to 25 people who have cash (cash is key). You find a smaller place and only put in 3 tables (7ft, 9ft, and snooker or 3c). Each person has to put up their share of the cash (upfront) to buy the equipment. NO DEBT. Each month they would have to pay their share of the monthly expenses. You couldn't have anyone working. The place would be locked up and each person would have a key (could be a key pad). Each person could come and go as they wanted 24/7. You could have refreshments, but that can be a nightmare. Who keeps it stocked? What if someone drinks 60 beers a month and another guy only drinks 3. I guess you could be on the honor system.
Another potential problem is someone may begin to think they are subsidizing someone else's pool. Lets say person A can only make it out 3 times a month but person B plays 3 times week. Do they pay the same each month? The other thing is each person would have to have the financial mean to pay their fair share of the monthly cost. I'm sure there would be a lot of people who would say "I'm In" but when it came time to write a check they couldn't.
I think the key to this model is finding enough people who would rather have this set up than their own table at home.
Just my thoughts on it.
Steven
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Not to old to open a pool room yet. Just think of all the cue deals you could put together. Playing a little 1 pocket on your favorite table. John could run the pro shop. No time like the present to start. Were not getting any younger!
Larry
We Could Dream
This idea sounds great, if it was only true. I have always complained about these so-call pool rooms in our area. What a shame. I can only dream about the photos of some of the beautiful pool rooms that have been posted here on AZ from around the Country. It would take a person with a lot of money & the love for pool to open one of those places down here. There are so many leagues in this area that there is no doubt that the room would be full every night of the week. The BCA A-Masters division that I play in has 128 players, the A division has 113 & the B div. had 67. There are many other leagues also in the area APA etc. One good place would take all the players away from these other places. This past league night, we played on one table that the rail cloth was completely out of feather strip. A another player told me that he played on that table five weeks ago and it was like that.
That is the way it is down here. It's a shame.
This idea sounds great, if it was only true. I have always complained about these so-call pool rooms in our area. What a shame. I can only dream about the photos of some of the beautiful pool rooms that have been posted here on AZ from around the Country. It would take a person with a lot of money & the love for pool to open one of those places down here. There are so many leagues in this area that there is no doubt that the room would be full every night of the week. The BCA A-Masters division that I play in has 128 players, the A division has 113 & the B div. had 67. There are many other leagues also in the area APA etc. One good place would take all the players away from these other places. This past league night, we played on one table that the rail cloth was completely out of feather strip. A another player told me that he played on that table five weeks ago and it was like that.
That is the way it is down here. It's a shame.
Good points
Gman, I think those are some great points, and emphasize why the room would have to operate under a simple business model, almost like a non-profit. It would be interesting to see if a billiard club could be opened up in Dallas as a non-profit? I believe other sport associations operate as non-profits, have volunteers and contractors (refs), etc...
I'm not part of a league, but I wonder what league entry fees run as far as monthly or seasonal dues and what type of yearly revenue could be generated from them to keep it afloat. The room would need to attract the players from other league nights to keep it viable I'm sure.
$1200 a year would be quite a bit for most people I would think.
Looks like rent would be the major obstacle (good tables could probably be had for much less and setup to play well--don't have to be new diamonds right away
). I wonder what rent for low end commercial space in Dallas would run? Near 35 and 635 maybe where all the large warehouses are at?
Brainstorming....
Gman, I think those are some great points, and emphasize why the room would have to operate under a simple business model, almost like a non-profit. It would be interesting to see if a billiard club could be opened up in Dallas as a non-profit? I believe other sport associations operate as non-profits, have volunteers and contractors (refs), etc...
I'm not part of a league, but I wonder what league entry fees run as far as monthly or seasonal dues and what type of yearly revenue could be generated from them to keep it afloat. The room would need to attract the players from other league nights to keep it viable I'm sure.
$1200 a year would be quite a bit for most people I would think.
Looks like rent would be the major obstacle (good tables could probably be had for much less and setup to play well--don't have to be new diamonds right away
). I wonder what rent for low end commercial space in Dallas would run? Near 35 and 635 maybe where all the large warehouses are at?Brainstorming....
That will happen the about the same time I give Shane the 5 and the pop.
....and drill him.
great post,
I thought about it for a minute, grabbing a big house in Highland Park and buying a building(all cash) and opening a room. I have the cash to do this.
Here is my problem with it, the ROI sucks on the pool room biz and would be just ok on the building I'd buy, if I put myself in as a tenant at market rate rent, I'd do ok on the building(it would be a single tenant free standing big box, (I might take 50% and rent the other 50%) not a strip mall. so i'd do ok or worse on the building.
the pool room itself as a biz would be a ball and chain, I get the sales numbers from several pool rooms in different markets around the country often. I see their numbers some with full bars some with smoking, some big some small. And the only thing I see is businesses going down hill, they are all doing poorly but one. the one doing well is over 40 years old. all are GOOD rooms run by people who know the biz.
the problem is facebook and video games, nobody young plays much anymore or if they do its a fluke, pool is over. In LA there are 20,000,000 and 7-8 good rooms with the same faces i seen since the 80's. I'm 45 and dont see many players younger than 40, except Oscar. Or up and comming players who are atthe pool room everyday playing, the guys doing this are ALL older than me. Its a senior citizens game, in 20 years pool rooms are history. What will happen is more 1-2 table private clubs popping up for players, they will replace the pool rooms of the past and in time they will too fade way. People just dont play pool anymore. Its on its way out, in 40 years its over like bumper pool is now.
Its not the highest and best use of $$$, thats why there isnt a room there. The few people who want it unfortunately cant support it, in any market here in America. I'd rather go to the PI learn my way around and do something-with a pile less $$$.
best
eric
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