What causes this - calling Bob Jewett, et al.

Bob Jewett said:
I think it's still credited in the US. Chalk is to the only reasonable explanation to this point. I believe it covers all of the observed data. Further, kicks can be demonstrated fairly reliably by application of chalk.

Do you know of a better explanation?
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Whether you like it or not, the snooker world is a million miles ahead of the pool world, particularly US pool, which appears to be trapped in the dark ages.
 
JBKY said:
Some skids are caused by a bad stroke or wrong type of stroke.How ever you want to say it.Not all but some.John B.
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Ah, now I see how it is. You're accusing me of possessing a faulty stroke. How implausible!!! You know I'm the best out there! Obviously just kidding. Maybe in the next lifetime though...
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
It's usually the result of chalk at the contact point causing increased friction. The hop isn't all that pronounced but the balls locking up momentarily and both skidding is apparent. It generally results in a shot that seems to have been hit too full as the CB "carries" the OB with it briefly before it releases and goes on its way, so the OB doesn't release on the original shot line.

I can't say this for sure but I believe it has also happened to me with badly worn balls that have pits and dings. If the hit is made where two pits make contact I think they can lock up (hook and loop like velcro) and skid just like with a chalk mark. Again, its an increase in normal friction.
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These balls hopped off of the table bed rather apparently. It was really noticable. It was really odd, given the slow speed of the CB.

I'm still not sure what happened here, but some good theories have been provided...
 
jalapus logan said:
Ok. Here's the situation. I was playing onepocket with a friend and I played a safety in which I shot the cue ball with top at lag speed. The cue ball struck the object ball and one or both balls literally hopped off of the bed of the table for a split second. It seemed like they were glued together for a split second. I've had this happen only on very rare occasions in my 15 years or so of pool playing. Any thoughts on what was going on there???
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As many others have pointed out, this effect is caused by excessive friction between CB and OB during contact. It is called cling, skid, or kick. More information and demonstrations can be found here:

It is usually caused by a chalk smudge on the CB ending up right at the contact point with the OB.

Regards,
Dave
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think it's still credited in the US. Chalk is to the only reasonable explanation to this point. I believe it covers all of the observed data. Further, kicks can be demonstrated fairly reliably by application of chalk.

Do you know of a better explanation?
Click to expand...

Sorry not to have got back sooner on this. I remembered that there was some research done on on this but I could not immediately track it down.

I now believe that it was work done by Ben Plummer (an engineer) and verified on the table by Martin Goodwill (an English-billiards player), described in Martin's site here => http://www.englishbilliards.org/kicks

The conclusions they reached were that the worst type of kicks were caused by chalk (which explains why the phenomenon can readily be reproduced in the lab by the application of chalk); but that 'in the field' the type of kick that occurs much more frequently is not due to chalk. I have read that Martin was able to produce these less severe kicks 'at will' with very clean equipment.

However I have no details of the experiments actually done.
 
Siz said:
I have read that Martin was able to produce these less severe kicks 'at will' with very clean equipment.

However I have no details of the experiments actually done.
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Even perfectly clean equipment will have one chalk mark on the cue ball after contact.

I have not seen any plausible explanation for skid other than chalk marks or other dirt on the balls.
 
TSW said:
Even perfectly clean equipment will have one chalk mark on the cue ball after contact.
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If the experimenter chalked the tip, yes. But to produce kicks 'at will' with a single chalk deposit would be quite a trick!

TSW said:
I have not seen any plausible explanation for skid other than chalk marks or other dirt on the balls.
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I am not sure I have either. But perhaps the balls don't know that?
 
JBKY said:
I'm not for sure about this. I have this method I use in bank shots that require what I call "cling english" but I don't know for sure if this is the same thing. I can make the balls cling together and get more turn on the object ball by doing this.I can teach it but it's hard to explain.John B.
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Clenglish lol. I have a few on the rail or close banks where I overcut them with a little inside and the OB kisses the CB off the rail and goes long. Looks like they grab each other for a second. Very thin cuts with OB just off a cushion and inside spin can have a similar effect.

But skids are no laughing matter! Always at the worst of times...
 
Siz said:
Sorry not to have got back sooner on this. I remembered that there was some research done on on this but I could not immediately track it down.

I now believe that it was work done by Ben Plummer (an engineer) and verified on the table by Martin Goodwill (an English-billiards player), described in Martin's site here => http://www.englishbilliards.org/kicks

The conclusions they reached were that the worst type of kicks were caused by chalk (which explains why the phenomenon can readily be reproduced in the lab by the application of chalk); but that 'in the field' the type of kick that occurs much more frequently is not due to chalk. I have read that Martin was able to produce these less severe kicks 'at will' with very clean equipment.

However I have no details of the experiments actually done.
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Yes, it's unfortunate that there is no detail on that website. The website does say that chalk causes bad kicks. It also says how rare such kicks are. The authors there might be interested in an analysis by Dr. George Onoda of the estimated frequency of kicks due to chalk at the contact point. I think he estimated about 1 in 200, but it depended on how many chalk spots remained on the cue ball after each shot.

There was a previous kicking report from the UK in which acetone was used to clean the balls. I'm sure that horrified the people at Aramith. I hope that wasn't the study reported on the site cited above.
 
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