Open Offer to Danny Harriman and John Schmidt from TAR

[robsnotes4u]

People seem to forget this has been an off and on thing for over three years. People really have no clue at all how many matches never happen that no one ever hears about. Its easily four to one. I started this thread because all other options were exhausted. It was a last ditch long shot effort. I guess some people see this thread and forget the twenty four previous matches that got done.

As for me needing to learn about human nature maybe thats the case but I have made my living working with professional gamblers and pool players. I would say I could teach some classes on human nature. Sometime you just have to cut bait.

A few people know how screwed up pro pool really is. I mean at a basic human nature level. Most really do not know because what they know is what is made public. Thinking you can apply standard business and sales tactics in this world is simply naive. I'm not a good business man and I'm not a good negotiator but as far as I can tell no one else has come close to doing what Chad and I have done as far as putting big name individual matches together. People that try invariably throw up their hands and walk away. A good businessman wouldn't have anything to do with pro pool. The only reason to have anything to do with it is out of emotional attachment to it. Good businessmen do not make emotional decisions regarding business.

Ask yourself this "Why isnt anyone else doing these types of matches in the U.S.?" I mean there are plenty of great marketing guys, negotiators and business minds out there. Seemingly most of them are on AZ. How come none of them have picked up the ball and ran with it? Use all that savvy and mental horsepower to really do things right ? I often ponder this question myself.

You are in a great position and successful when you are at the point in your business when you can walk someone even if it is profitable to do business with them. Only do business with the ones you want and forget the rest. Congratulations JCIN

 

[JCIN]

You are in a great position and successful when you are at the point in your business when you can walk someone even if it is profitable to do business with them. Only do business with the ones you want and forget the rest. Congratulations JCIN

I think this situation is a little more complex than that. Could be I'm too close to see the big picture but thats my take on it.

Your post made me think of an interview with actor Michael Madsen and he was talking about power and freedom in Hollywood. He said "The only time you have any is when you have everything or you have nothing." Just something that popped in my mind.

I'm just going to try to leave this alone and see what happens.

 

[champ2107]

I can relate to what your saying justin and i know what its like dealing with pain in the asses, I sell also and sell around $600 000 a month, my most expensive product is $250. With certain people i need to bring someone in to help negotiate for me or with me or the deal wont happen. this is not a bad thing but a smart thing!

 

[poolhustler]

Just a couple thoughts.......

With all the hype and free press this proposed match has it would be a great business deal for TAR. The viewership would be off the charts. Someone who isn't so emotionally invested as Justin should take it upon themselves to make it happen.

Secondly, Justin mentioned that with all the variables, these matches are very hard to make happen. Maybe a different business model needs to be employed. TAR could set up the rules of the match and if players want to play they can play. If they dont' agree, the can walk. Very few sports let teams or players make up their own rules to play a game or match. I understand that its somewhat different than other sports, but why does it have to be?? TAR puts up the cash and makes it happen, not the players.

 

[bullshot]

I realize that TAR was trying to create prematch hype. But there's also an element of high-pressure sales tactics at work here too. By announcing this match challenge on AZB, it puts more pressure on both parties, especially Danny, to participate. If Danny declines, which he did, than he gets criticized by everyone on AZB for his decision (regardless of what factors influenced his decision).

That's why I commented earlier that it would have been so much better to negotiate this match challenge quietly using back channels.

I don't think anyone is criticizing him for his decision but more the reason for his decision (greed). It must be nice being captain hindsight.

 

[JAM]

My job today keeps coming with all these quotes that remind me of this thread.

Never confuse the public interest with what's interesting to the public. ~~Oscar Wilde

 

[Lock N Load]

Here is an offer from TAR for Danny and John to play a third All Around. Match would take place towards the middle/end of April.

-TAR will pay all expenses to Las Vegas. (Hotel/airfare)

-TAR will put up a prize fund of $6000. $5000 to winner, $1000 to loser.

-This offer is for a three day all around match. First day is 14.1 to 400 points, second day is one pocket race to 10, third day is 10 ball race to 30 if needed. Match is first one to win two events. If one man wins the 14.1 and one pocket the match is over.

-Bill Stock is the head referee of the BCAPL and will officiate the match. All rules will written down and signed by each player. In the case of any rules or conduct violations TAR has the right to fine the offending player based on a scale that will be part of the agreement both players sign. The money fined will go to the other player not to TAR. Bill Stock's decisions will be final and binding.

This offer is a risk for TAR as it will be a big nut for us to outrun but I want to see this match and I think a lot of other people do to. IMO the past two matches are some of the best we have ever seen and this would be the rubber match so it needs to happen. I am confident both guys can show up and play some phenomenal pool in a great atmosphere.

So Danny and John lets make this happen. You can contact me via PM here or by phone and we can get it done. I give you my word I'll do my very best to give you the best playing conditions possible and make your time in Vegas enjoyable.

Hey Mr. J.
You and Tar have a going on if you get this match in action! I will have to watch it too. Thanks for trying to get it to happen. How can you go wrong with the loser getting $1000.00, for three days work at something he loves to do!!! Man that is great.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[houmatroy]

Hey Mr. J.
You and Tar have a going on if you get this match in action! I will have to watch it too. Thanks for trying to get it to happen. How can you go wrong with the loser getting $1000.00, for three days work at something he loves to do!!! Man that is great.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

U slippin lock...u didnt mention the world's poolhall in ur post..lol...just messin with ya...hope all is good on ur end !

 

[jason]

unappreciative

I, for one, will not buy any stream of Danny because of his ignorance and greed displayed in this thread.

IMO, this was a generous offer from TAR especially in a down economy and an extremely week professional environment. It amazes and disgusts me, at the same time, how professionals continue to cut their own throats.

I have slowly removed myself from pool over the last few years. I do not regret my decision even though I love the game. I see there is little reason to spend my time, energy, or money in a pointless fight for this game, especially for unappreciative pros.

To JCIN, Mark, and John, I wish good luck.

 

[dorabelle]

You lose 1 you gain 10. Whatevs

 

[The Saw]

Maybe Danny is secretly being represented by Charlie Williams...... Just sayin.

 

[dorabelle]

Just to be clear Danny, not everyone on here feels you have done anything wrong. Hope you can find a way to make this happen. Good luck if you do. Id like to see JS eat his words.

 

[houmatroy]

Just to be clear Danny, not everyone on here feels you have done anything wrong. Hope you can find a way to make this happen. Good luck if you do. Id like to see JS eat his words.

It's the goat that would be doing da eating

 

[justadub]

Mark Griffin is thinking -
But I do wish things would calm down a little. You can disagree with others in a polite manner. But I also understand how emotions run high.

Let's just see if something happens in next week or so.

Time wil tell,

Mark Griffin

You went 3rd person on us! Now who is Mr.Big Time?

(just kidding, and looking forward to those reading/hearing those thoughts)

 

[Celtic]

I would love this to happen, but I do not think $6000 is enough to make it happen. Just saying.

They are pool players, not pro golfers. If either one does not take this free shot at the money they are morons. $5000 is a significant money to any pool player in the world who makes their living off of pool.

<edit> Freaking absurd that Danny would turn this freeroll down. I can just see him in 30 years pushing his shopping cart around collecting bottles for a dime a pop and asking strangers for quarters. All the while mumbling and ranting how famous he used to be and how people used to offer him thousands of dollars to simply show up to play a pool match. That potential $5000 is an amount of money that would be very important in Danny's future. Danny, that is like 50,000 bottles dude.

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[JDB]

They are pool players, not pro golfers. If either one does not take this free shot at the money they are morons. $5000 is a significant money to any pool player in the world who makes their living off of pool.

<edit> Freaking absurd that Danny would turn this freeroll down. I can just see him in 30 years pushing his shopping cart around collecting bottles for a dime a pop and asking strangers for quarters. All the while mumbling and ranting how famous he used to be and how people used to offer him thousands of dollars to simply show up to play a pool match. That potential $5000 is an amount of money that would be very important in Danny's future. Danny, that is like 50,000 bottles dude.

Seriously? I usually enjoy your posts and think you are right most of the time; however, this time I think you are off a bit.

You have no idea whether Danny has a regular job that he would have to give up for the free roll. That makes a huge difference on whether he should or should not accept.

Pro pool players really can't be compared to Pro Golfers. Pro Golfers, given the purses, have no issues concentrating 100% on golf. Pool players, in general, cannot do that.

JMO.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

.............

 

[JAM]

It's the goat that would be doing da eating

Speaking of goats -- again in this thread :embarrassed2: -- did anybody watch the season finale and last episode of HBO's "Luck" last night?

The final horse race between the Ace's Irish horse and Nick Nolte's black stallion went head to head to the finish line, with Ace's horse inching his way by a nose for the almighty win.

Apparently, it was said before the race that the "goat was missing," which they thought was going to affect the race.

Then after the race, the very last scene showed Nick Nolte sleeping in front of his horse in the barn, and the camera zooms in on a black pygmy goat trotting by.

Loved that theme song on Luck ---> Theme Song.

To stay on topic of the thread, Danny may eke out a living better away from pool than if he sticks with pool. It is nobody else's decision to make, and he is entitled to choose whether he wants to quit his day job, relocate, practice to get in stroke, and then take a shot at pocketing 5 dimes or 1 dime guaranteed.

To ridicule Danny for making his choice, something that he is going to have to live with -- not us -- seems unfair. Then again, that's the climate of AzBilliards these days, to attack others willy-nilly with mean-spirited words.

I guess everybody is angry because professional pool is going down the sh*tter in America. If the pool culture that is exhibited on AzBilliards is reflective of how the United States feels about professional pool, it's no wonder the BCA and its industry members removed professional pool from their portfolio years ago.

I wish professional pool would just die a quick death and let us move on to the leagues and recreational pool. It is sad to read the unkind words and cruel jokes about professional pool players. I get it now: Professional pool players are the scum of the earth, bums unless they have a fat stakehorse or girlfriend/spouse to support them, and each one is a pariah of the pool world.

Now back to that goat, does anybody know the significance of this goat on the HBO "Luck" series? I am going to miss "Luck," not as much as I'm going to miss professional pool, though.

 

[punter]

I hope that isnt the point that was made here. It surely was not my intention. I dont have any problem with someone saying "I want more" or "Thats not enough" I understand that. It happens all the time. Everything is open to negotiation.

All I ask is either just say "No" or if interested make some sort of counter offer that is lacking personal insult.

I think this whole thing has become too personal for me to be involved in at this point. Maybe Mark can contact Danny and try to work something out. If thats the case and he can make the match I'll do the work, keep my opinions out of it and be a professional about it.

Being passionate about what you do is a double edged sword. This time I probably let it get the best of me.

This post makes a lot of sense. Spoken like a businessman. Your future's so bright you gotta wear shades.