A Plea to Mike Howerton...

JB Cases said:
Oh please. You're the one who acts like you are a champion. Remember when you lied to us all telling us you play every day for ten hours and talk to hundreds of players each day???

You knock EVERYTHING about pool in America and act like if everyone would adopt a snooker stance then we'd all be much better. You knock champions like John Brumback and call everyone who sells DVDS con-artists and say that they are bringing pool down.

John Barton stands up under his own name and talks about pool from his own REAL experience, puts up videos warts and all, and simply is helpful to whoever needs information. I have never said I am anything but a B player. Still even at that I bet my high run records are better than yours.

Trolls like you excel in being antagonistic. You are contrary with EVERYTHING and a major pain about it. Everyone here knows that you are nothing but a major nuisance.

If I am a nobody in pool then you are a super nobody. That's right, you are a completely inconsequential person in pool. So when you want to talk credentials at least I am the only one between us who has public credentials that are verifiable. People can contact me and meet me and get on the table with me to see what I know and whether or not they agree with or not.

So try again Trollger. You already got banned once for dogging John Brumback's DVD. Even after you were proven wrong a dozen times in that thread as everyone shot down your comments with actual proof you continued to slander John and all instructional authors in pool.

So the reality is that you are the cancer that is destroying pool. People like you are the ones that don't want to see pool grow, who have zero interest in doing anything positive and do your best to knock anyone that is doing positive things.
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JB Cases said:
We need more moderators to stay on top of the trolls, such as you, and then when people like you are shut down, the people like me who have experience to offer won't be burdened by responding to troll attacks.

In other forums there are many more moderators to handle it. In this forum Dave is the only moderator that does the work day-to-day. Since it's a volunteer position I have to guess that he doesn't do it full time.

Having help would solve a lot of the problem and especially if that help were recruited from long time members.

I participate in several other forums which never have these problems because they have enough moderation to enforce the rules.
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John, you don't mince your words. :D

There is a category of other people, other than trolls and I think the word is STALKERS. Some of the STALKERS enjoy running behind certain posters and trying to push their buttons, sometimes trying to act like they are helping the forum;:p meanwhile, those STALKERS are just as big a problem as the TROLLS.

It is unfortunate and fortunate that you have to speak out as you do. Unfortunately, I observe many of the same things as you do with trolls and stalkers.

Recently, the moderators have whacked the hands of some of them and they are staying in line for the moment. I'm kind of curious if they will abandon they're mean-spirited ways.

More and stronger moderation would help I'm sure, but it is a thankless job for the most part. God bless the moderators. I would bar anyone who didn't make positive contributions to the forum, so I wouldn't be very good as a moderator.:D
 
JB Cases said:
You have been caught in your lies more than once and everyone knows that you are just saying whatever you think will get a rise.
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I do tire of this constant mucking spreading the likes of you and Ned do. You NEVER back up your accusations with evidence. You're like the British tabloid press, all rumour, speculation and tittle-tattle.

Just give me ONE example of where I have been 'caught lying' (whatever that means).

JUST ONE. If you can't find any, retraction and apology, please.
 
TheThaiger said:
I do tire of this constant mucking spreading the likes of you and Ned do. You NEVER back up your accusations with evidence. You're like the British tabloid press, all rumour, speculation and tittle-tattle.

Just give me ONE example of where I have been 'caught lying' (whatever that means).

JUST ONE. If you can't find any, retraction and apology, please.
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Ok, where you said you talk to hundreds (plural) of players each day at the pool room where you also contend that you play for five a day.

Just one hundred players at an average 3 minute conversation is 300 minutes or 3 hours of talk time. No human does that at any pool room in the world. I have been to pool rooms all over the world and there aren't 100 people to talk to in any of them. Even if there were it's incredibly unlikely to nearly impossible that you would talk to them all unless you're the guy handing out the balls. And even at that you wouldn't have conversations that revolve around topics we discuss here to the point that you could use it as evidence to refute anything said on here.

The empirical evidence shows your claim to be nearly impossible to do in real life on a daily basis as you stated that you do.

Ergo, you are lying.

Which makes you a liar.

No apology is forthcoming or necessary.
 
pt109 said:
Thaiger, JB, and Joey

Lighten up a bit....differing points of view aren't necessarily trollish.
...and many of us enjoy the exchanges...
https://www.google.ca/url?url=http:...ements&usg=AFQjCNGZAO2CYGJfDJyDYzLbOA6Ia46caA
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Different point of view is fine. Trollger doesn't just present a different point of view. He acts like we are all idiots for not subscribing to his snooker stance cures pool fantasy.

He admonishes us for talking about pool when he is here talking about pool. And he lies about his experiences in order to make his points. Lying is not a good foundation for discussion of different viewpoints.
 
JB Cases said:
Ok, where you said you talk to hundreds (plural) of players each day at the pool room where you also contend that you play for five a day.

Just one hundred players at an average 3 minute conversation is 300 minutes or 3 hours of talk time. No human does that at any pool room in the world. I have been to pool rooms all over the world and there aren't 100 people to talk to in any of them. Even if there were it's incredibly unlikely to nearly impossible that you would talk to them all unless you're the guy handing out the balls. And even at that you wouldn't have conversations that revolve around topics we discuss here to the point that you could use it as evidence to refute anything said on here.

The empirical evidence shows your claim to be nearly impossible to do in real life on a daily basis as you stated that you do.

Ergo, you are lying.

Which makes you a liar.

No apology is forthcoming or necessary.
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:grin:

Have you ever thought about going into politics? Top spinning, fella!

What if I were to speak to groups of people for 3 mins at a time? That could be done quite easily. Besides, some of us (me) are less verbose than others (you), and can quite easily converse with large numbers of people a day. Some of us have a personality, John. Some of us have people speak to us willingly.

Oh, and Mr Empirical Evidence Extraordinaire, is something that's nearly impossible (you break n running, for instance), actually impossible (you maintaining your silence for 5 mins)? Sounds like we're back into the 'little bit pregnant' scenario to me. Something is either impossible or it is not.

So, retraction and apology, please. Whenever you're ready...
 
JB Cases said:
Different point of view is fine. Trollger doesn't just present a different point of view. He acts like we are all idiots for not subscribing to his snooker stance cures pool fantasy.

He admonishes us for talking about pool when he is here talking about pool. And he lies about his experiences in order to make his points. Lying is not a good foundation for discussion of different viewpoints.
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Lies, plural? Ok, let's have another I can correct you over. In your own time.

I do sometimes wonder whether there's a single shred of self-perception with JBB.
 
TheThaiger said:
Lies, plural? Ok, let's have another I can correct you over. In your own time.

I do sometimes wonder whether there's a single shred of self-perception with JBB.
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Well, ya hafta admit, Thaiger....
..JB makes a good case....I got one of them
 
Cornerman said:
I think you have it backwards. I wasn't the one complaining about the aiming threads. I'm the one perplexed at why anyone thinks it's a good idea to move a pool related topic to a different area. You're accusation of my whining is completely backwards.

This is a pool forum. Exactly what topics should stay in the main forum if not aiming? If aiming goes (as I said), by logic every topic that gets any debate should also go. That's not whining.
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Actually I don't have anything backwards at all. My comment was that you were whining about aiming being moved. That's all, and that isn't logic that every topic should be moved that's just being silly, because you don't like the fact that they finally put the aiming threads in their very own sub forum. That doesn't stop anyone from going there (including you) if they really want learn about aiming. The funny thing is that one of the main contributors PJ is now acting like he won't go to this sub forum ever like they did something wrong to him by moving it. That way of acting makes one wonder what his real intent was in the first place. Does it not? Speaking of which why does it really bother you so much?
You know I couldn't have really cared if they moved them or not, I just didn't read them. What gets me is the people who talk about every reason that they shouldn't have been moved. Instead of stating this is something that I really enjoyed and I like it to be front and center and in the spotlight.(There was that so hard) I didn't see one person say that, and if you had I would have respected you for it!

Not to mention almost all of the sub forums are pool related topics, so what's your point when saying that? Why have anything separated just put Talk to a mechanic, Ask an instructor, Cue and case review and everything else together in one forum (the main forum) of coarse now I'm being silly just like your logic comment was.

But as long as were communicating I would like to say something positive by saying nice job on the Alex vs. Shane race to 100 match I've watched it 11 times now and will probably watch it again. Nice work Fred and TAR!
 
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I was standing over at the telephones looking at the television. He came in sort of between me and the television, looked at the television, and then he looked over at me and said in a very firm and very solid voice, "We're at war. Give me the Vice President. Get me the Director of the FBI."

We got the Director of the FBI, but we couldn't reach the Vice President, because at this moment, he was literally being grabbed by his belt by a Secret Service agent, lifted off the floor, and moved to a bunker. A plane was approaching the White House.

He was quiet but had steel in his voice as he spoke with clarity. There was no confusion in his mind. We were at war.
 
There was a fog of war. I mean, I've turned to people who have been in combat talk about the fog of war, and it really does exist. There was no real clarity as to what was going on. We knew we had been attacked. The question was by whom and what other attacks were underway.
 
itsfroze said:
Speaking of which why does it really bother you so much?


Not to mention almost all of the sub forums are pool related topics, so what's your point when saying that? Why have anything separated just put Talk to a mechanic, Ask an instructor, Cue and case review and everything else together in one forum (the main forum) of coarse now I'm being silly just like your logic comment was.
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My post wasn't to convey that it bothers me so much. I was doing a virtual head shake saying, "really? Is this where this forum has gone." I figure my post was better than me taking a video of myself shaking my head and attaching it. Although, admittedly, I would have had a good laugh doing that. Next time.

At this point, the Main Page has so many sub-forums that there is every reason to believe that we'll get to a point of too many sub-forums. in fact, we're there now. If topics like "aiming" is no longer a Main Forum ticket item, then as my esteemed colleague Mr. Figueroa has pointed out, the forum has jumped the shark.
 
watchez said:
JAM - what are you talking about? :shrug:
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We got into the limousine and headed for the airport.

Normally, when the President travels anywhere, the motorcade moves pretty quickly, but we moved far more quickly than normal this day.

There has always been great traditions connected with the presidency, and one of them is that the President mounts the stairs to Air Force One by himself, turns, and then waves to the crowd. After that, we can then board the plane.

This time, though, when we got to Air Force One, we all just barreled onto the plane as fast as we could. As soon as we got to the end of the runway, the pedal was to the medal. The 747 lifted off and went about as vertical as possible, going as high as we could take it and about as fast as the plane would fly.
 
watchez said:
JAM - what are you talking about? :shrug:
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Jennie's doing her "Forest Gump" treatment to a thread that obviously is starting to spiral out of control.

She's a chef -- just adding lots of corn starch as a filler or binder. :D

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Jennie's doing her "Forest Gump" treatment to a thread that obviously is starting to spiral out of control.

She's a chef -- just adding lots of corn starch as a filler or binder. :D

-Sean
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Sometimes it will stop raining long enough for the stars to come out, and then it was nice ----> HERE!
 
JB Cases said:
We need more moderators to stay on top of the trolls, such as you, and then when people like you are shut down, the people like me who have experience to offer won't be burdened by responding to troll attacks.
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JB,

We all know that you're a master of spin so it shouldn't surprise anyone that you're now trying to turn the tables and pretend that you're a victim.

Your posting history with multiple bannings and warnings speaks for itself. In November, you made the following comment to kybill9: "I wear getting banned as a badge of HONOR not shame."

You also said the following about kybill9:
I really thought the KY stood for a brand of jelly. In fact, that is the image I will have every time I see your handle. As long as we are making stuff up I can picture some middle aged white pool playing thief looking for his next victim while holding a tube of KY.

I will be sure to keep my butt pointed away from you when and if we play.

Don't want any of the KY Jelly. I will take my whipping on the table thank you.
Of course should I get lucky and win then you might want to use some of it on yourself to soothe the pain.​

The following definition of a "forum bully" from the AdminZone describes you fairly accurately:
These gentlemen/ladies differ from trolls in the sense that they are not anti-social, but they are an accepted and sometimes well-respected members who assume a sort of informal and unofficial leadership role. They use this position to intimidate and assert their views on newer and less established members and often push their weight around to mark territorial rights. They will generally try and behave properly, but subtly try and behave like moderators and preach about forum behaviour. They will also turn and insult people as they wish and surprisingly other forum members will turn a blind eye to them. They will usually "adopt" ownership of a single forum or a subforum of a board and hang out there frequently with their clan. (this feature is usually more common in larger forums)

These people are often the starting point of cliques because they can gather a group of yes-people around them in no time.

Beware of these people and watch out for them because they can be a lot more trouble in the long run than isolated trolls running loose.​

Don't just take my word for it that you're a forum bully. Back in November, Mr. Wilson effectively described you as a forum bully with this comment about you: "See John, from my point of view, you see AZB as your own personal internet version of the kids game , "King of the mountain" and to climb to the top it is ok to push and throw people around and continue once you think you're king of the mountain."

Here are a few more examples of JB being a forum bully and violating the forum rules:
JB Cases, John Barton's using ad hominem attacks, sexually explicit comments, threats and intimidation tactics in post to PoolSharkAllen: (02-08-2012 http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3445298&postcount=752 )

I am proud part of the Aiming System Mafia. And I have a hit out on you. If the opportunity comes up to eliminate you from the forum then I will gladly take the shot.

The only REAL troll here is you who have truly posted NOTHING of substance on one side or the other.

I imagine you in a sort of porn fantasy of your own devising wherin you are trying to molest me while pleasuring Grilled Cheese at the same time. An interesting dichotomy that you want to rape me but be submissive to him. You should look into that.

When your hero flames like this then I guarantee you I will be there to burn down his threads,​



JB Cases, John Barton's using ad hominem attacks, and insults in post to Dr. Dave: (02-07-2012 http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3442714&postcount=34 ):
WHO? Who are these SOME PEOPLE?

Why do you take things that don't belong to you and distort them. Please name one person who matters (beside yourself) who has ever put it into "print" that BHE is an aiming system.

BHE cannot be an aiming system in the least by it's very nature. You of all people OUGHT to be the one who sees that and corrects anyone who claims it is a system much less an aiming system.

Back Hand English is the application of spin AFTER the centerball shot line has been determined. By definition the shot line is found and the shooter goes to center ball with NO SPIN and then CHOOSES the spin he wants by slightly moving the backhand to allow the tip to address the ball at the spin position.

I just can't believe that you would say that it's an aiming system with a straight face. Why you want to further confuse things is beyond me.

Why can't you simply enjoy your corner of the billiard world and revel in the parts of it that you DO understand and stay out of the ones you do not understand?

You show up in every aiming thread linking to you page of plagiarized out of context nonsense coupled with your mocking crap when you have ZERO intention of being part of clearing up how they work. You pick and choose what you will "publish" (steal) in order to be as confusing as possible to the readers. You REFUSE, 100% refuse to actually learn the methods you mock and yet you pretend to be an authority on what is and is not possible when using them.

When you are asked direct questions about the things you assert you don't answer them.

Why don't you just stick to threads that cover the things you have published books and dvds on? Position play, basics, high speed videos, etc.... And just stay away from the one topic you really don't understand and show no apparent desire to understand.

Out of all the people who troll these threads I honestly feel you are the worst. And I hate to say that because I truly admire you for all the other great stuff you have put out there. But on this subject I feel you are the WORST because out of all of us you actually have the best chance to explain it scientifically and get the actual motions down on video for deep analysis. But you have indicated you have ZERO interest in doing that.

So you prefer to simply be a troll interjecting yourself into these threads seemingly hoping that by linking to your aiming resource page, which is in fact designed to mock aiming systems as much as you can get away without being completely overt, that visitors will go there and be hopelessly confused and thus turn to your books and DVDs. At least that is how it looks to me.

And it makes me sad because as a scientist I would expect you to be curious enough to want to really figure it out by learning it and filming it as you have done with all other subjects in pool.​

JB using ad hominem attacks, name calling and insults in post to Apocalypse2012 (4/13/2012 http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3549342&postcount=61):
...I mean since you know that Stevie has no chance then the five out shouldn't matter to Shane. But the fact is that you are a know-nothing nit who wouldn't bet that fish crap in the ocean.

So when you are ready to bet the conditions I described then step up. Until then crawfish back into your hole.​

I could go on with other examples proving that JB is a forum bully but I think the above examples are more than sufficient to make the point that JB is flagrantly violating the forum rules for etiquette.
 
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itsfroze said:
...one of the main contributors PJ is now acting like he won't go to this sub forum ever like they did something wrong to him by moving it.
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You posted in my thread thanking the moderators for moving it.

That way of acting makes one wonder what his real intent was in the first place.
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You seem a little confused generally - let me clarify my real intent:

Even though I agree with Fred and Lou that it's silly to have to segregate the entire topic of aiming in a pool forum, I'm glad they did it because the topic of aiming here has become too CTE-dominated (in large part because the moderators coddle CTE proponents and legitimize their aggressor-as-victim pose). I'd rather have aiming discussion out of sight than have the whole topic allowed to become a Main Forum propaganda platform for CTE.

And for the record (and as I've said scores of times here), CTE is an OK system as far as it goes, but the coddling of its proponents here has fostered a climate of rampant hyperbola about it that can't be challenged without starting defensive wars, furthering the unwarranted "victim" status of its proponents, and risking the uneven censure of the moderators.

pj
chgo
 
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