Goose1972
Banned
what i do , am i in trouble!!!!!
Production Cues
- Thread starter Webbs Billiards
- Start date
what i do , am i in trouble!!!!!
TheThaiger
Banned
On the contrary - you're an inspiration to us all. And warning...
I like the older production cues. My first cue was an 80's Viking, and I remember checking out the Meucci and McDermott cues at the game room stores in the malls back in the 80's. I also liked a few Schons and dreamed of one of the Huebler Custom Shop models (I was a teenager at the time and couldn't afford it).
My current player is a 70's plain jane Huebler. Everything about it feels right to me. I'd part with it only if I found a nicer all-original Huebler.
My current player is a 70's plain jane Huebler. Everything about it feels right to me. I'd part with it only if I found a nicer all-original Huebler.
I see your point about a backup cue. I like to have a backup shaft, but haven't seen the need at my level for a backup cue. If I take more than one cue to the pool room, it's because they're both in my collection and I want to use them both that day.Coming from a tennis player....
I don't have a 'backup' cue. A backup cue IMO would be a second cue identical in every regard to your playing cue ...
I think the most common reasons to have a second cue are:
Just cuz you can and they are of course , quite pretty,
Work being performed (wrap/tip.etc),
Loaner,
Beater cue (for certain places)
Sentimental attachment to one (refuse to sell),
Upside down on one (Can't sell for market reasons/refuse to take a loss)
That kind of thing.
I have had 4 Schons: 1 post 93, a 1993, and 2 R-series
I have had 4 McDermotts: A D-1, a D-9, a C-11 and a LUCKY cue.
My first cue was a Viking BEM PJ that I got for my 14th BDay.
My first custom was a Jacoby, but most of their cues are production.
I think I've gone through 30 plus cues in 5 or so years, and at the moment I only have my Runde, my 60's unknown titlist and my C-11.
I hate CNC'd points and busy inlays, which most production cues have cornered the market on.
I can't comment on new production cues as I have not personally owned one.
I have had 4 McDermotts: A D-1, a D-9, a C-11 and a LUCKY cue.
My first cue was a Viking BEM PJ that I got for my 14th BDay.
My first custom was a Jacoby, but most of their cues are production.
I think I've gone through 30 plus cues in 5 or so years, and at the moment I only have my Runde, my 60's unknown titlist and my C-11.
I hate CNC'd points and busy inlays, which most production cues have cornered the market on.
I can't comment on new production cues as I have not personally owned one.
I have been building cues for eight years now, every cue I build is one of one, I never build the same cue twice, with the exception of building matched sets of cues for the same customer, such, a matching break, Jump, and shooting cue. Respect for ones work is never given, it is earned and that also go's for credit. Every cue maker starts at the same place and where they finish doesn't only depend upon their ability. This like any other business have the in crowd and the common build this mainly depends upon how and who markets them. There are some great cue makers or masters as you put who never have received the credit they deserve and if the truth be know it is nothing more than marketing and it has nothing to do with quality or craftsmanship.
Now you may not agree with that, but in my opinion promotion of cues today is very similar to selling used cars buyers must be ware.
I can not agree more, once a production cue always a production cue. Now there is nothing wrong with owning a production but changing the wrap and tapering the shaft certainly doesn't make it custom if anything it takes away from any collectivity the cue may have had and when it comes to turning down shafts it decreases the value in almost all cases.
Good Post
that would depend on your definition of custom. If you could get a production cue co to build one from scratch the way you want it and i am not referring to woods and wrap i am referring to the entire cue and every component piece it would be a custom.
"Refinished, reconditioned, and restored" cues are bigtime red flags to me.
The Blue Book says it slashes the values of a cue 30% for an obvious refinish. The other being an improper refinish. Then, whoever is selling these types of cues can market them as originally made by a certain master maker and a person can't tell what era its come from.
Anything that has a re at the beginning of the discription is a suspect counterfeit reguardless of what the seller says. The reason being that if you totally rewrap and refinish a cue then get new shafts, all the originality is gone, then how can a person make their own judgement call.
I realize there's those letters of authenticity but having to take a piece of papers word and not what my eyes are telling me is too much.
Canwin
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I don't think that anybody really argues that customized production cues are really custom built cues. But the term custom is often used in their marketing. It's harmless really. Semantics.
Many of the greats actually converted production cues. Many Balabushka cues are actually converted production cues and as far as I know he never scratch built a cue himself. That does not detract from the value of his work, not would I ever say his cues were not custom.
If one wants to be very strict about the term then it can get very tight. A cue that you buy that was not built to your specifications was not custom built for you. IMHO the greatest value of a true custom is always for the person it was built for.
There are many gray areas in the use of the term.
There is a lot of refinishing going on. Personally, I am a bit fussy when it comes to this especially regarding works of art, collectible cues, etc. To me there is a huge difference between a restoration and a refinish. I don't see many proper restorations, most are refinishes. I have three cues that need restoration work. I am giving them extensive consideration before anybody touches them. One I have been contemplating since about 2007 and have not yet made a decision. One is a 100 year old Brunswick, one is a signed custom, and one is a Meucci Original. I have others that need some refinishing work...which is simply another matter to me.
The thread is about production cues and what people like. The normal suspects seem to be in the lead. The old Meucci cues, McDermott, JOSS, Schon, and more. All greats, no doubt. Then there are their modern counterparts and the newer brands. Also great. Personally I like the old cues. I just do.
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Many of the greats actually converted production cues. Many Balabushka cues are actually converted production cues and as far as I know he never scratch built a cue himself. That does not detract from the value of his work, not would I ever say his cues were not custom.
If one wants to be very strict about the term then it can get very tight. A cue that you buy that was not built to your specifications was not custom built for you. IMHO the greatest value of a true custom is always for the person it was built for.
There are many gray areas in the use of the term.
There is a lot of refinishing going on. Personally, I am a bit fussy when it comes to this especially regarding works of art, collectible cues, etc. To me there is a huge difference between a restoration and a refinish. I don't see many proper restorations, most are refinishes. I have three cues that need restoration work. I am giving them extensive consideration before anybody touches them. One I have been contemplating since about 2007 and have not yet made a decision. One is a 100 year old Brunswick, one is a signed custom, and one is a Meucci Original. I have others that need some refinishing work...which is simply another matter to me.
The thread is about production cues and what people like. The normal suspects seem to be in the lead. The old Meucci cues, McDermott, JOSS, Schon, and more. All greats, no doubt. Then there are their modern counterparts and the newer brands. Also great. Personally I like the old cues. I just do.
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Yikes :yikes:
I had the wrap changed from leather to linen on my Lucasi.
Has it now lost any hope of being collectible?
You could always keep it in a little box, I recommend keeping it flat and treating it with a leather preservative....
Oh...wait....you meant the cue, not the leather......
Disregard. :smile:
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YES!!! No hope whatsoever. It's trash. Hurry and send it to me and I will promptly dispose of it properly
.Maniac (thinks your Lucasi is beautiful)
Production cues
The best, in my opinion, is Schon. They are made well, and they all play about the same. They have pretty good feedback, and the hit is satisfactory.
I have found that Jacoby cues are nice cues, but the balance on them is not right for me. They seem to be a little heavy about the area that is right at the top of the wrap.
Joss cues are not what they were in the 70's. A friend of mine broke his cue several years ago, and bought a $400 Joss to shoot with. He shot with it one time, and then borrowed my brother's cue to use, and never gave it back. I could certainly see why though, because the shaft on the Joss was 13.25 mm at the tip, and felt like a club on your bridge hand. Much is said on here about Joss, and not once has anyone talked about the wierd taper of their shafts.
What I have mentioned are 2 important areas for me in a cue, balance and shaft taper.
The best, in my opinion, is Schon. They are made well, and they all play about the same. They have pretty good feedback, and the hit is satisfactory.
I have found that Jacoby cues are nice cues, but the balance on them is not right for me. They seem to be a little heavy about the area that is right at the top of the wrap.
Joss cues are not what they were in the 70's. A friend of mine broke his cue several years ago, and bought a $400 Joss to shoot with. He shot with it one time, and then borrowed my brother's cue to use, and never gave it back. I could certainly see why though, because the shaft on the Joss was 13.25 mm at the tip, and felt like a club on your bridge hand. Much is said on here about Joss, and not once has anyone talked about the wierd taper of their shafts.
What I have mentioned are 2 important areas for me in a cue, balance and shaft taper.
Production cue wise, I've always been a fan of older meucci's (pre dots). My favorite cue was my road agent. 12mm and whippy as hell, but it was fun to use. Prior to that, I've used my cousin's PP4, a friend's all purple plain jane, and an old sneaky. I've owned a new ppac3 and a sneaky pete, but those hit like crap.
I had a mcdermott and wasn't a huge fan of the hit, but nice cue. I've played with a lot of schons, and it was a bit too stiff for my liking.
Joss cues however have really surprised me. I love the hit and if anything were to ever happen to my Cog, i would get a joss as a backup in a heartbeat. Or a nice meucci original
I had a mcdermott and wasn't a huge fan of the hit, but nice cue. I've played with a lot of schons, and it was a bit too stiff for my liking.
Joss cues however have really surprised me. I love the hit and if anything were to ever happen to my Cog, i would get a joss as a backup in a heartbeat. Or a nice meucci original
Personally, I like the JOSS balance, and the taper. I am not sure what you mean by "weird taper". It is a short stiff taper if that is what you mean.
Yes, the standard JOSS tip is large, but they can be ordered smaller, or cut down, or tapered as you like. Just like any cue really.
Indeed they are not what they were in the seventies. I believe I wrote a bit about that myself in this thread. They have evolved a great deal.
Although my primary cue is a seventies JOSS, my primary backups are both modern JOSS cues. The transition is easy for me and it seems the pedigree is obvious...at least to me.
What do you find weird about the taper? Just curious really.
EDIT: I have not shot with the latest JOSS shafts, and they are different in some respects, so I cannot comment on those.
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I may have been a little rash in my statement about customs, but I wanted a discussion about Production cues and I've seen a lot of threads get hammered by people who think custom cues are the only real option. I've seen several people who've come here to ask about a production cue, and get told to save their money for a "real" cue. I play with a Meucci cue and I love it, I also sell them. I also like Viking because they have a solid feel, the finish on them is beautiful and they play well. I can understand people being dedicated to the game, but you must remember that not everyone can afford to have a 57 Chevy. We are all here because we love the game, and we enjoy the company of others who share our passion. Some are here to learn from more experienced people, while others are here to trade for something different, and further more are here wanting something that they feel will improve their game or atleast let them feel good about themselves. I'm a billiards dealer, but I'm also a player and a fan of the game. Thank you all for sharing your favorites.
Well I would have to say when you get this done post some photo's I would love to see them.
Just to be clear I own a Pool Hall, that has a retail stored with in it and I have carried all the production cues you can imagine along with cases and a large number of accessories, I normally have around $10,000 to $20,000 in inventory and all that is production products. I also have agreements with other custom builders and I sell their cues on commission based upon the prices they set. I also have a custom shop attached to my pool room where myself and a good friend build custom cues and conversions do all repair work from new shafts to complete refinishes, and we do basic repairs while the customers wait, such as tip, ferrules, and wraps along with many other simple repairs.
However, I am no longer a dealer for Meucci Cues, and I have not sold their products for almost five years. When I would place an order for $1000 or $2000 worth of cues directly from the factory I would have to return between 25 and 30 percent because they were defective. Then it would take months to get replacements, in my opinion their customer service sucks and with this happening to me a dealer the lowly customer was really getting screwed so I could not support that and never will again. It is my loss because people still ask for Meucci cues until I tell them the horror stories that have happened to me and my customers in the past.
Good luck with your business, I mean no disrespect I am only offering an opinion based upon experience nothing more.