Any advice on how to deal with exceptionally slow opponents?

[The Renfro]

6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately.

You could call an unsportmanship foul and award youself the game or match.... =) Gotta love rules requiring interpretation.......

 

[Jeff M]

Some good answers. Seems I need to not pay much attention to what he is doing and think about something else. I tell ya, this guy was not a bad shot at all, but painful to watch. He made some of the strangest facial expressions I've ever seen. And as far as me just not missing, well in this tourney, loser breaks, and he's good enough to run out sometimes. I'll have to find ways to stay in my "zone" and not deal with him. Maybe bring up the shot clock thing.

 

[poolguy4u]

Some good answers. Seems I need to not pay much attention to what he is doing and think about something else. I tell ya, this guy was not a bad shot at all, but painful to watch. He made some of the strangest facial expressions I've ever seen. And as far as me just not missing, well in this tourney, loser breaks, and he's good enough to run out sometimes. I'll have to find ways to stay in my "zone" and not deal with him. Maybe bring up the shot clock thing.

Sounds like a good player I know out of New York....

 

[Bill Yerd]

Why do you want to play so quick? Don't play if you have to be somewhere soon. If not, what does it matter, as long as your opponent let's you play at your pace you should let your opponent play at their pace.
I have a friend that generally sinks more balls than I do, but when I beat him, it usually because he didn't take his time.

 

[alstl]

Play him some speed pool for $.

 

[acousticsguru]

Its not his problem he's dealing with. Slow players bother everyone who is not a slow player themselfs. Its not good for pool in anyway. I also know a top 5 barbox player that will even refuse to let you rack the balls if he is losing. He will just run his stick through the rack. I have seen him do this everytime he is in a tough match. He will also shark in anyway he can. Slow play is a big problem and should be stopped in some way in the pool world. Its the reason they came up with texas express, to speed the game up. If possible, shot clocks should be used in all tournaments! I personally refuse to gamble anymore with a slow player.

Of course it is your problem if you let yourself bother - it's that simple! To play by the rules is a matter of implicit consent. If there's a shot clock, it's part of the rules for both to complete their shot within a given time frame. If there's no shot clock, you acquiesce to let everyone be what and who they are in their time management. Or you shouldn't be there in the first place: without rule and referee, who is to judge whose behaviour is bordering on unsportsmanlike conduct? You who may feel impatient, or he who may feel rushed?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[acousticsguru]

By the way, 25-plus years of teaching and playing pool myself at all kinds of rhythms, with and without shot clock etc., have taught me one thing that may be worth keeping in mind: it's not just more time-, but also more energy-consuming to play deliberately - in other words: let them! If you're able to achieve the same or more they do but economically, more power to you!

Also, if you find yourself to be suffering from impatience, ever wondered why you chose, of all sports, one that demands patience?

One of the wonderful aspects about pool is that it mirrors life insofar as one can only change oneself, not others. As long as one thinks a problem is someone else or someone else's, one has already lost. As soon as one starts solving the problem (= oneself), one is already a winner. Change the things you can!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[KMRUNOUT]

The way I see it. I want my opponent to bring their very best game. If they have to take 5 minutes on each shot, then I'm fine with that. It makes my victory all the more sweeter....knowing that I let my opponent do what ever they needed to do, to bring their A game. Sometimes, I watch them closely...like in Chess. You look to see where your opponent is looking, and figure out what they are thinking.

I haven't read all the way through this thread, but it is hard to picture a response that I will respect more than this one. The bottom line is that if someone else playing slow bothers you, then you lack patience. That is your burden. It is better when striving to do anything well to identify your own weaknesses and work on them. Though the typical approach for most is to blame the situation, rather than your own inability to *effectively* deal with the situation. Responsibility is a tough pill to swallow.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately.

You could call an unsportmanship foul and award youself the game or match.... =) Gotta love rules requiring interpretation.......

Don't become a lawyer lol. It is way too obvious to argue that while at the table and playing slowly, thinking about your shots, you ARE PLAYING the game, and hence not delaying it. Leaving the game to have a smoke, pee, etc, those might satisfy this rule. Nice post of this rule though...I don't know half of these "official" rules.

KMRUNOUT

 

[acousticsguru]

Don't become a lawyer lol. It is way too obvious to argue that while at the table and playing slowly, thinking about your shots, you ARE PLAYING the game, and hence not delaying it. Leaving the game to have a smoke, pee, etc, those might satisfy this rule. Nice post of this rule though...I don't know half of these "official" rules.

KMRUNOUT

That's precisely the definition, by the way: without referee and shot clock, there is no concept of "delay" other than absence from the table (and/or doing something else - to stand there with a cue in one's hand contemplating the layout can only be considered presence).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[kelvinling]

Our organisers have a rule where if players are playing too slow causing people to have to wait for too long, they will just implement the shot clock. Can you imagine starting at 8pm and the tournament is a 16 player, double-elimination format? The longest 10 ball I've seen people play for a race to 9 lasted for almost 4 hours! Yes, it's in a tournament...

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

slow player

Depends on the game
8 and 9 ball 45 second shot clock is enough with one , one min extension per rack .

Im sure that there is some happy meduim that can be found .
why dont you do a poll on what is a happy meduim would be .

30 to 45 sec would be my vote for 8 or 9 ball w/ 1 one min ext. per rack.

14.1 ball or only pocket , snooker i can see longer shot clock .
good luck
MMike

 

[acousticsguru]

Our organisers have a rule where if players are playing too slow causing people to have to wait for too long, they will just implement the shot clock. Can you imagine starting at 8pm and the tournament is a 16 player, double-elimination format? The longest 10 ball I've seen people play for a race to 9 lasted for almost 4 hours! Yes, it's in a tournament...

That's how the shot clock should be perceived: not in favour of or against a player or a category of players, but at the discretion of the tournament director, in order to stay on schedule.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[acousticsguru]

Depends on the game
8 and 9 ball 45 second shot clock is enough with one , one min extension per rack .

Im sure that there is some happy meduim that can be found .
why dont you do a poll on what is a happy meduim would be .

30 to 45 sec would be my vote for 8 or 9 ball w/ 1 one min ext. per rack.

14.1 ball or only pocket , snooker i can see longer shot clock .
good luck
MMike

Curiously enough, I find that 8-Ball and One Pocket require the most "planning", whereas Straight Pool and all the rotational games tend to be more repetitive in nature/pattern play - the more one plays them, the quicker one gets. Snooker obviously even more so, the pattern play being the most repetitive (thanks to the re-spotting of the colours) of all these games.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Curiously enough, I find that 8-Ball and One Pocket require the most "planning", whereas Straight Pool and all the rotational games tend to be more repetitive in nature/pattern play - the more one plays them, the quicker one gets. Snooker obviously even more so, the pattern play being the most repetitive (thanks to the re-spotting of the colours) of all these games.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

Hi david
I see your point
No one person shoots the same or see's the runout order the same.
Some of the small tournements i have set up i needed to find out how long average game of 8 ball lasts . what i came up with was 6 min racks with everyone on a shot clock with a ref on each table.

Ich denke das ich ganz schnell spielen:thumbup:
MMike

 

[vagabond]

so far, the comments of other posters have addressed what the opponent of a slow player has to do.

What should a player on the adjacent table do when the Einstein is standing between the tables,looking at the Balls and thinking for 1-2 minutes while blocking the play on the adjacent table?

 

[vagabond]

I don't want to be rude and try to always have good sportsmanship. I know that some guys do it intentionally to screw up your rhythm.

I understand taking some time if it's a really hard shot, but this guy I played last week in a tourney would takes minutes for some of the most obvious shots where he hardly had to do anything with cue ball either.

Who's had experience with this and how have you learned to deal with it?

No practical solutions are available for this problem. Shot Clock is not practical except in Major tournaments. We don`t have enough shot clocks available for each table in a pool hall, we don`t have enough people to operate the shot clocks. Who pays the operator of the shot clocks ?

 

[Raider510]

so far, the comments of other posters have addressed what the opponent of a slow player has to do.

What should a player on the adjacent table do when the Einstein is standing between the tables,looking at the Balls and thinking for 1-2 minutes while blocking the play on the adjacent table?

If he stands there long enough, say excuse me or something like that. Too easy. Usually, most players will go out of their way to let you have the shot if they aren't comfortable with their lineup.

 

[Lock N Load]

I have told this story often enough I should keep it handy to cut and paste. Back when I was just a lad, barely twenty-three, I found this great small stakes action spot. A place that looked like the next good wind would make it fall over, they only served beer, and there hadn't been a woman in the place in living memory. Horribly ratty table and covered with bugs most of the time. Nothing like broadsiding a june bug to screw up a shot. However there was cheap action in this place twenty-four seven. There was also old Joe.

Not too surprising, old Joe was old, surely seventies, maybe eighties, nineties weren't impossible. Joe was slow. He walked slow, he thought slow, he shot so slow I don't remember a single ball ever losing contact with the pocket bevel on the way in. If the balls had to roll an inch further they wouldn't have made it. The worst part of it was that Joe still had runout capability if you gave him an open table to work with. It's annoying to watch somebody older than Methusala run the table on you. It is pure chinese water torture style torture when they take ten or fifteen minutes to do it every time.

I was young and dumb and full of cu, um, frijoles so when Joe missed I would jump up from where I had been sitting on the edge of my chair and either miss by shooting too quickly or miss shape in my haste to get the game over. Joe owned me for months. I regularly beat better players in there but if they would have had ATM's back then I might as well have had ATM tatooed on my forehead when I played Joe. I wouldn't dodge him and couldn't beat him.

I tried the usual things without much success then finally I hit on a change of mindset. Instead of sitting there cue in hand on the edge of my seat I leaned the house cue against my chair or used it to hang a foot over and relax. Instead of keeping my engine revving at ten grand sitting in the chair I was just a mildly interested spectator.

The first night I shifted mental gears I beat old Joe. He never beat me again. What is more, the trick I learned playing him has stood me in good stead ever since then. It has certainly made me thousands, maybe tens of thousands. I owe a bunch to old Joe just for beating me like a rented mule until I smartened up. It was years before I thought to wonder if Joe had once been "somebody" and how good he had played in his prime. I suspect he suppplemented his retirement checks a thousand a month or more grinding in that old nameless bar. Not chump change for the day and time.

The best way to deal with slow play is to learn to shift mental gears when sitting in the chair. It is even very useful playing long sessions when the other player isn't a slow player. Rest when you are in the chair, physically and mentally.

Hu

Good post, Hu.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[whitewolf]

I don't want to be rude and try to always have good sportsmanship. I know that some guys do it intentionally to screw up your rhythm.

I understand taking some time if it's a really hard shot, but this guy I played last week in a tourney would takes minutes for some of the most obvious shots where he hardly had to do anything with cue ball either.

Who's had experience with this and how have you learned to deal with it?

I do things to irritate the **** out of him.

I usually try and be courteous and keep the powder off the table. But against a slow freak the table with look like the north pole when I get through with it. When I rack the balls I make sure there is plenty of powder to go around on as many balls as possible.

I turn the chalk upside down.

I will call somebody to come watch his shot when not necessary.

I will talk to him in between my shots. Just go over and start a conversation about breathing or something. Make it obvious that you are ****ing with him. I will talk to people who walk by while I am shooting - as long as possible.

I will go to the bathroom 16 times during the match and tell him that I am diabetic. I will do this sometimes while I am shooting, and sometimes right after he has spent 5 minutes analyzing a shot and before he shoots, asking him to wait until you get back.

When he does a stupid shot, I will be the first to let him know and will tell him what I would have done.

I will get my friends to walk by and stand in front of the pocket while passing by.

Everytime he misses I will make some comment, like 'nice try', or just a simple 'thanks for that gift'.

You get the picture. Try and distract him as much as possible - and make it a game to you. That way you will have some saddistic fun and hopefully he will be a basket case by the time you get through with him.

Anybody else want to add to my list? I need some extra ideas.