Is taking pool instructions a good idea?????

[acousticsguru]

Be specific about what you want out of instruction. I could be incorrect but from the sound of your post it seems you would get the most benefit out of someone who can teach you the game (of 8 Ball) rather than someone who can teach you how to use a cue stick to hit a ball, so to speak. If that is the case I would lean more towards the house pro kind of instruction, or lessons from a player - someone who can teach you the game.

I recall a conversation with Dave Hemmah a few years ago about lessons and the first thing he asked me was "Do you want to learn how to play pool (fundamentals) or do you want to learn the game of 9 Ball?"

The fact remains, however, that insufficient technique is forever going to keep one from executing what one's smart mind may come up with. It's true that some pool games (maybe One Pocket, 8-Ball, Straight Pool - in descending order) lend themselves a bit more to "moving well", but in the end, one will have to shoot straight, that is, pocket balls and get position. In my experience teaching, it's extremely frustrating to those who see what needs to be done when they have to realize, over and over again, that they get beaten by people who don't plan ahead half as well, but keep making the comparatively tough shots they're leaving themselves. In the end, in order to become a complete player, and perhaps more importantly have the confidence of one, one will need both, body and mind working hand in hand.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[kaznj]

I have taken lessons from several people. Some are very good pros and some are full time teaching pros. I do not believe I have ever walked away from a lesson saying it was a total waste of money. I feel that I got more out of some lessons than from others.

I would strongly recommend going with a teaching pro.

Some pro players have trouble explaining how to do things because it comes naturally to them so they are not really sure what they are doing. They might say "hit this shot at 5 o'clock"
My experience is that usually a teaching pro studies why certain things work, and this helps them explain it. Scott Lee is a tremendous teacher. I cannot imagine anyone, beginner to advanced player not improving his game....providing you take the time to practice why he teaches you.

 

[nobcitypool]

I agree with Scott: many of my students have said to me in hindsight that they didn't "apply themselves" because it seemed "useless" - they didn't know what to do! It's frustrating to spend hours practicing without seeing any progress. Also, from a teacher's point of view I cannot recommend learning everything the hard way as if there were some special merit in how much nerve and time it cost, asking everyone and the electrician for some superficial knowledge. Certainly not when it comes to technique, as e.g. matters of stroke are very much linked to a player's self-perception and confidence level, especially when they do not yet know what to look for when they watch a superior player. It's this odyssey kind of learning process that makes people give up, and to finish this mini-rant (I apologize…), it's neither easier nor better (nor, necessarily, worse) to help someone who figures to have "tried it all" already.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

You make the perfect point why a qualified instructor is the best route to take. I can only speak for my experience with Scott Lee. He has an organized systematic approach to his instruction. He video tapes the lesson and leaves the student with a DVD. He has excellent documentation that includes specific drills that are designed for helping the student work on the fundamentals that were taught.

There are several reasons someone could practice for hours and hours without seeing improvement. Perhaps they never started with the basic fundamentals and are practicing with a flawed stroke. Perhaps they weren't instructed properly and aren't practicing the right thing. Again, all the more reason for seeking out a qualified professional instructor. I think in general, you get what you pay for.

 

[JC]

Be specific about what you want out of instruction. I could be incorrect but from the sound of your post it seems you would get the most benefit out of someone who can teach you the game (of 8 Ball) rather than someone who can teach you how to use a cue stick to hit a ball, so to speak. If that is the case I would lean more toward the house pro kind of instruction, or lessons from a player - someone who can teach you the game.

I recall a conversation with Dave Hemmer a few years ago about lessons and the first thing he asked me was "Do you want to learn how to play pool (fundamentals) or do you want to learn the game of 9 Ball?"

If you want to learn game strategy then an instructor is not what you want. Plenty of books and DVDs can cover this more comprehensively with far less investment.

JC

 

[onepocketron]

I have taken lessons from pros and certified instructors. Was it worth it? Well for my money it was. I saw some real improvement after a couple of months.

One thing of note, lessons are no miracle cure. Don't think you are going to take a lesson and start pocketing balls like a pro. It isn't going to happen. If you are looking for a silver bullet, save your money. If you are looking to work on your game and put in some quality practice time (I'm not talking about spreading balls around the table and just hitting balls) then I would give it a try.

Usually, but not always, they will give you some drills to perform. If you want to get better and improve you will need dedicate time to do these, and not just hit balls. Most of the drills I was given were measureable. You actually measure your progress. What is great is many of these drills come into play when you are actually playing so if you are proficient at the drills, it will make a big difference in your play and consistency.

I liken lessons to a coach. Pool is one of the few where there is no coach. Very often what you percieve you are doing, and what you are doing in reality, aren't even close.

For me it was not just a lesson, but it was actually a lot of fun. I had a blast doing it and got to meet some really nice folks. Would I do it again if I could do it over again? Yes because the lesson was fun, and I had more fun playing as I became a more consistent player overall.

 

[acousticsguru]

If you want to learn game strategy then an instructor is not what you want. Plenty of books and DVDs can cover this more comprehensively with far less investment.

JC

Not entirely: one of my students' favourite things to do is to team up with me to play doubles, either discussing options or simply to do what I tell them to try and do each shot. Especially experienced players tend to come back asking specifically for this type of (time-consuming) lesson, but I've had someone a week ago who's never run a rack of Straight Pool on his own, and with me ran 21 on our first try, and the expression on his face, and the satisfaction with what he'd learnt was priceless. He wouldn't stop saying things like "and we did all this picking the easiest shot there is" or "I'll sure look for insurance balls from now on" or "leave a key ball" or "get useless balls off the rails early" and so on. He was positively babbling! The very fascination with Straight Pool, and why it isn't just "that game" in which he could shoot every shot he chooses, yet still never managed not to miss after a couple - sheer bliss!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

If you want to learn game strategy then an instructor is not what you want. Plenty of books and DVDs can cover this more comprehensively with far less investment.

JC

Not entirely: one of my students' favourite things to do is to team up with me to play doubles, either discussing options or simply to do what I tell them to try and do each shot. Especially experienced players tend to come back asking specifically for this type of (time-consuming) lesson, but I've had someone a week ago who's never run a rack of Straight Pool on his own, and with me ran 21 on our first try, and the expression on his face, and the satisfaction with what he'd learnt was priceless. He wouldn't stop saying things like "and we did all this picking the easiest shot there is" or "I'll sure look for insurance balls from now on" or "leave a key ball" or "get useless balls off the rails early" and so on. He was positively babbling! The very fascination with Straight Pool, and why it isn't just "that game" in which he could shoot every shot he chooses, yet still never managed not to miss after a couple - sheer bliss!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

JC, this may be true for you but perhaps it is not so universally applied to everyone. Much depends on HOW someone learns. Thinking back to my college days, I got much more out of the lectures than I did out of the books.

Acoustics - I agree. I've read Capelle's book among others on 14.1 but then took a lesson from John Schmidt. I was having a real hard time getting into the 3rd rack until that lesson but after spending time with John, things just started becoming clear.

Similar to what you said, John explained that you have a computer and a robot. With my own computer and robot I have trouble getting into rack three while John can run 400 with his. Further, with my robot and HIS computer he felt I was capable of running 100 balls. We spent some time with me shooting but him telling me what to do (explaining along the way or answering my incessant questions about why we were playing a particular shot).

Long story short, within 3 days of that lesson I'd run a 51, several 40's and about a half dozen high 30's. I'd gotten to rack three about 12-15 times within 72 hours of that lesson. The improvement was in the computer, not the robot. :grin-square:

Reminds me, I need to get together with him again. :wink:

 

[TomHay]

So I'm considering taking some pool lessons but I've never met anyone who has and i don't know if it's a good use of time and money.

I'm an average player. Playing 8 ball on a barbox i can usually run 5-6 balls before i miss and i can get a ball on the break 80% of the time. I see patterns and usually think 3-5 balls ahead. Mostly i just get further and further out of line with each shot till the shots get too hard.

What's your experience with instructors?

Brian

Here is your first lesson and it is free. I am not certified nor should I probably be allowed near a table.

You are a "grave digger". You break so good you leave little ball groupings just open table. You miss the person you are playing has an increased chance of winning as the shots become easier.

You state you think 3 - 5 balls ahead but you get out of line and shots get tougher. When you think 3 - 5 balls ahead and you get a little off you need to erase the 3 - 5 regroup taking an optional shot and think another 3 -5 balls ahead, sometimes you have to wander from the trail to find a better way home.

I want you to rack 3 solids with the 8 ball in back as in 4 ball. Break, take ball in hand and get out (if 8 goes on break you spot it). When you can do this 10 out of 10 add another solid. When you can get out 10 out of 10 keep adding a ball. Eventualy you will be adding stripes as well, just keep on 10 out of 10. When you have done this to a complete rack 10 out of 10 do it without ball in hand until you can just break and run 10 out of 10.

If you won't do this drill I don't recommend lessons as you won't listen.

 

[TomHay]

Sorry, I don't look at it that way. It's a drill, one of many. He would spend quite a long time if ever getting to the break and run without ball in hand. The object is not to miss and practice what you can't do.

I will promise if he keeps trying and progressing at these type drills he will progress, maybe to the level of Earl breaking and running 10 racks of nine ball (yes I know he made some on the break) in tournament play.

My point on lessons is/was if he is not prepared to do things he might not enjoy he will not listen to an instructor.

I practice drills like this every chance I can.

 

[PGHteacher]

Based on what you just said, don't waste the money. You already have the experience and you probably know more than you think. You'd probably be further along than you are if you applied YOURSELF more, but you are a casual player. If you want someone to point out your flaws just look for someone fairly good to play. Everyone knows more than they think, ie a decent C player is good enough to teach a newbie. So trying playing with B+ players.

For pointing out flaws, I'm of the belief that nothing teachers better than you watching yourself on video.

That’s what’s wrong with lots of players.

bhale...I'd go with a professional instructor, over a professional player, for your first experience with lessons.

Depends on lots of factors, IMHO

If you want to learn game strategy then an instructor is not what you want. Plenty of books and DVDs can cover this more comprehensively with far less investment.

JC

I see where you are going but believe me that is not necessarily so, you would be amazed at the # of people that “think” they are doing what I am saying but are not; yes that includes strategy.

Much depends on HOW someone learns.

Yup.

Sorry, I don't look at it that way. It's a drill, one of many. He would spend quite a long time if ever getting to the break and run without ball in hand. The object is not to miss and practice what you can't do.

I will promise if he keeps trying and progressing at these type drills he will progress, maybe to the level of Earl breaking and running 10 racks of nine ball (yes I know he made some on the break) in tournament play.

My point on lessons is/was if he is not prepared to do things he might not enjoy he will not listen to an instructor.

I practice drills like this every chance I can.

And he may get careless and sloppy and that would reinforce bad habits, you don’t know. I don’t know either until I saw him shoot and practice on tape; that’s why you can’t just do this sort of thing (dispense this kind of advice).

People want “magic pixie dust” they always have and they always will; that isn’t how instruction works. Good instructors video you, find out what you do and do not know and then come up with a plan to get you to your specific goals. If you don’t practice you will quickly loose all they are trying to do for you. Even after I tell people this this still happens.

They are told to work on this that & the other thing and how to go about that, then of course they don’t and I know they haven’t and so they just try to “do what I told them” when they play. Well of course they have a higher miss % or they cant do it, or they can do it partially or whatever then they get frustrated and think I have some kind of magic wand because of what I did for “this other guy”. And they get frustrated and quit.

Talk with Segal and Lee and objectively determine what would be best for you all things considered cost, availability, how you “feel” about their approach etc.. etc.. 2.5 hours is a long drive back & fourth from MD for a weekly lesson, and your work schedule is well to me WOW! Very best of luck.

 

[Scott Lee]

TomHay...There is no point in racking and breaking with this drill. Just throw the balls out and run them off, with no hard shots allowed. We start with just 3, and shoot them in rotation. After speaking with the OP, I believe that if he decides to invest in lessons he WILL listen to his instructor, and will do the work necessary to improve. I do agree that the student must be willing to have an open mind, and then practice correctly what they are taught.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Sorry, I don't look at it that way. It's a drill, one of many. He would spend quite a long time if ever getting to the break and run without ball in hand. The object is not to miss and practice what you can't do.

I will promise if he keeps trying and progressing at these type drills he will progress, maybe to the level of Earl breaking and running 10 racks of nine ball (yes I know he made some on the break) in tournament play.

My point on lessons is/was if he is not prepared to do things he might not enjoy he will not listen to an instructor.

I practice drills like this every chance I can.

 

[TheBook]

Took 3 day lessons from a BCA instructor. For me it was a waste of money. It was too generic, one size fits all. I would recommend taking lessons from a someone that isn't a cookie cutter.


.

 

[bbb]

not sure lessons will help you
doesnt sound like you are willing to change anything or work at it
sorry
jmho
icbw
i am not an instructor

scott i didnt read thru this thread
what made you think he would listen