Only 2 U.S. players?

[pro9dg]

I'm curious are you a female? Because you argue like one. Never let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

I do love how some people are trying to explain things to me about the pro game in the US though. I appreciate the education. Thanks for your time.

Justin
How many of the players have you used in your excellent broadcasts would have caught your eye if they had not gone out and played on the World Stage. Raj? Oscar? Darren? Earl and Busta had to go global to get as good as they are. Likewise, how good would Shane be if he didn't have a US Passport? He has played World 8 Ball, 9 Ball and 10 Ball which are all WPA supported events.
It is a shame (No! It's ludicrous) that the US don't have a team in the World Team Championship next week. Shane VB, Hunter Lombardo, Brandon Shuff and Mike Dechaine could have enlisted one female US player. Not many teams would relish that team as their first opponents. But nobody told them. So this is down to poor communication within your pool community. Otherwise how have all the other countries (including a few with third world credentials) managed to get teams there?

Come on America, we do care and we do want you there. Somebody pick up the baton, but not the self indulgent APB.

 

[Hidy Ho]

Would you pay $50 to send a player to world event?

Lets even say that the deal is the player gets the first $5000 he wins and everything after that must be donated to charity.

Under this scenario, you can count me in for 4 spots.

Eventually, US players will need to go out to other countries I think 'cause there is where the pot of gold will be. Nothing in US that gives out 40K to the winner, is there? I think I've heard there are at least 3 or 4 events in China that do play out this amount (unverified Chinese connection heresay). Them (non-Americans) are used to more out of country travels than Americans - as a general statement.

Maybe, the old days of everyone coming over to USA to prove who's the best is over? Maybe the future is Americans feeling the burden of getting visa, paying plane fare and lodging at a chance to make some money?

They can come stay with me in Singapore (especially female players) but there ain't much pool scene here either.

 

[JCIN]

Justin
How many of the players have you used in your excellent broadcasts would have caught your eye if they had not gone out and played on the World Stage. Raj? Oscar? Darren? Earl and Busta had to go global to get as good as they are. Likewise, how good would Shane be if he didn't have a US Passport? He has played World 8 Ball, 9 Ball and 10 Ball which are all WPA supported events.
It is a shame (No! It's ludicrous) that the US don't have a team in the World Team Championship next week. Shane VB, Hunter Lombardo, Brandon Shuff and Mike Dechaine could have enlisted one female US player. Not many teams would relish that team as their first opponents. But nobody told them. So this is down to poor communication within your pool community. Otherwise how have all the other countries (including a few with third world credentials) managed to get teams there?

Come on America, we do care and we do want you there. Somebody pick up the baton, but not the self indulgent APB.

The players you name play on TAR because they come to the US and win. There are lots of players at the level of the ones you name in Asia that I could never ask to play because no one in the US knows who they are. No matter how great they are or how many world championships they play in or win. The reason for that is no one in the US cares about international play outside of a handful of people here. If that wasnt the case someone would be selling coverage in this country. The demand is so low that not one single international promoter even tries. Matchroom doesnt even care about making the Mosconi Cup available here.

It just cracks me up that people here slam the hell out of pro players for making bad money decisions and when they turn around and say the juice isnt worth the squeeze they are suddenly "scared". Its bullshit. I refuse to accept the view that whoever manages to win an odd format short race tournament is the best player in the world. He was the guy who played well and got the right rolls at the right time that week. When Darren Appleton was reigning world 10 ball champion Dennis Hatch shot his nuts in over a race to 100. Does that mean Dennis Hatch is better than Darren? It means Daz had what it took to win a tournament one week and came up short on another one.

Something else that baffles me is people bemoaning the state of the American game but then saying "Whoa whoa whoa its not my job to actually do anything about it." Here's a hint: The game is bigger than the players. Players come and go. The game gives opportunities to the people who play it best. Players should not have to shoulder the entire burden. Where is the BCA? Not their job you say? Well there you have it. Proof no one really gives a shit. If you wont get off your ass to do something about a situation you dont like then you dont really care about it either you just like complaining about how you wish someone else would get up and do something.

I'm real curious how many here would look a top American pro in the eye and say "I am dissapointed in you XYZ for being too scared to go play in a World Championship. You are letting the game down in this country." Its a bunch of whiney nonsense. People want other people to do all the work "for the game" Its no wonder pro pool is in the shitter and on the way down when the most people are willing to do to change things is come on the internet and complain about what other people should do.

The players deserve a lot of heat for a lot of things. This isnt one of them.

 

[jay helfert]

The players you name play on TAR because they come to the US and win. There are lots of players at the level of the ones you name in Asia that I could never ask to play because no one in the US knows who they are. No matter how great they are or how many world championships they play in or win. The reason for that is no one in the US cares about international play outside of a handful of people here. If that wasnt the case someone would be selling coverage in this country. The demand is so low that not one single international promoter even tries. Matchroom doesnt even care about making the Mosconi Cup available here.

It just cracks me up that people here slam the hell out of pro players for making bad money decisions and when they turn around and say the juice isnt worth the squeeze they are suddenly "scared". Its bullshit. I refuse to accept the view that whoever manages to win an odd format short race tournament is the best player in the world. He was the guy who played well and got the right rolls at the right time that week. When Darren Appleton was reigning world 10 ball champion Dennis Hatch shot his nuts in over a race to 100. Does that mean Dennis Hatch is better than Darren? It means Daz had what it took to win a tournament one week and came up short on another one.

Something else that baffles me is people bemoaning the state of the American game but then saying "Whoa whoa whoa its not my job to actually do anything about it." Here's a hint: The game is bigger than the players. Players come and go. The game gives opportunities to the people who play it best. Players should not have to shoulder the entire burden. Where is the BCA? Not their job you say? Well there you have it. Proof no one really gives a shit. If you wont get off your ass to do something about a situation you dont like then you dont really care about it either you just like complaining about how you wish someone else would get up and do something.

I'm real curious how many here would look a top American pro in the eye and say "I am dissapointed in you XYZ for being too scared to go play in a World Championship. You are letting the game down in this country." Its a bunch of whiney nonsense. People want other people to do all the work "for the game" Its no wonder pro pool is in the shitter and on the way down when the most people are willing to do to change things is come on the internet and complain about what other people should do.

The players deserve a lot of heat for a lot of things. This isnt one of them.

Justin, in your rant here you seem angry at pool in general and pool fans in particular. I'm not sure why you feel this way, other than the frustrations you may have from working so hard to make TAR successful. It's not easy being a promoter in the pool world is it? I put in a solid twenty years promoting pool tournaments so I'm not exactly a Johnny-come-lately. Yes I have been disappointed more than once, but I never gave up on the game I love.

I no longer have the energy necessary to put on a major event (although the thought still crosses my mind from time to time). It's a lot of work with little reward in the end. But I'm proud of what I accomplished in my time as a promoter.

The reality of the pool world has not changed much in the years that I've been involved. There's never been enough money to go around to support a large group of players. Only the very best have been able to make a decent living at the game. Or the very smart ones who develop as many revenue streams as possible. Some of the most successful players of my generation made their living doing something else besides shooting balls in the hole. They opened poolrooms, made cues, started leagues, etc. etc. Allen Hopkins hasn't done so bad with his Super Expo, has he? And he was a damn good player as well.

Even with this reality there have always been a few players who made a good living from pool. I know for a fact that Earl made over 300K a year for several years at the height of his career. Ralf and Shane and a few others are able to make 200K+ every year as a professional pool player. But to do this they must compete on the international stage. Professional pool has evolved, just like golf, tennis, basketball and baseball. It's no longer exclusively an "American" sport. It's an international game played by great players from all over the globe. If you are interested in pursuing the game at the highest level, than you must adapt to this reality and get on a plane and go play. Or you can remain a lower level pro and only compete where it's convenient (and inexpensive) for you to do so.

Say what you want about the "short races" in these various world championships, it's ALWAYS the best players who get there in the end. Playing high level pool is about how well you handle the pressure when the title (and the money) is at stake. Some can handle it and some can't. Darren can and that's why he is a true champion! Same for Dennis O., Francisco and Efren before him. Johnny was cut from that mold and so is Shane. These major tournaments are no joke. It takes a truly great player to win one. Most of us know that. Especially those of us who have been watching for years. The TAR format of playing long matches is not the only way to determine who the best players are. To win a major tournament, you may have to win eight to ten Races to NIne or Eleven. That's a lot of pool, any way you cut it.

By the way the aforementioned Mosconi Cup is currently being shown (full length matches) on Fox Sports. Maybe the American networks are waking up to the fact that pool gets huge audiences overseas. Pool in China is one of the biggest television sports in terms of viewership and the top players are stars! Last I heard China is four times the size of the US and a lot more prosperous as well. We are playing catch up in more ways than one.

I will say this once again, the top American players need to get out of their little cocoons and find a way to compete internationally. Johnny has paid his dues and his career is winding down, but we do have a lot of young talent in this country. They should be going where the action is of just be content with being small time players. Would I say this to their face? You're damn right I would! And I have, more than once. If you read my earlier post I've offered to fully sponsor a player in the World Championship and was turned down. There are a lot of guys like me in this country who might be willing to send a player overseas if he showed the right stuff. I was staking Mike Dechaine before he was MIKE DECHAINE! :grin:

 

[JCIN]

Justin, in your rant here you seem angry at pool in general and pool fans in particular. I'm not sure why you feel this way, other than the frustrations you may have from working so hard to make TAR successful. It's not easy being a promoter in the pool world is it? I put in a solid twenty years promoting pool tournaments so I'm not exactly a Johnny-come-lately. Yes I have been disappointed more than once, but I never gave up on the game I love.

I no longer have the energy necessary to put on a major event (although the thought still crosses my mind from time to time). It's a lot of work with little reward in the end. But I'm proud of what I accomplished in my time as a promoter.

The reality of the pool world has not changed much in the years that I've been involved. There's never been enough money to go around to support a large group of players. Only the very best have been able to make a decent living at the game. Or the very smart ones who develop as many revenue streams as possible. Some of the most successful players of my generation made their living doing something else besides shooting balls in the hole. They opened poolrooms, made cues, started leagues, etc. etc. Allen Hopkins hasn't done so bad with his Super Expo, has he? And he was a damn good player as well.

Even with this reality there have always been a few players who made a good living from pool. I know for a fact that Earl made over 300K a year for several years at the height of his career. Ralf and Shane and a few others are able to make 200K+ every year as a professional pool player. But to do this they must compete on the international stage. Professional pool has evolved, just like golf, tennis, basketball and baseball. It's no longer exclusively an "American" sport. It's an international game played by great players from all over the globe. If you are interested in pursuing the game at the highest level, than you must adapt to this reality and get on a plane and go play. Or you can remain a lower level pro and only compete where it's convenient (and inexpensive) for you to do so.

Say what you want about the "short races" in these various world championships, it's ALWAYS the best players who get there in the end. Playing high level pool is about how well you handle the pressure when the title (and the money) is at stake. Some can handle it and some can't. Darren can and that's why he is a true champion! Same for Dennis O., Francisco and Efren before him. Johnny was cut from that mold and so is Shane. These major tournaments are no joke. It takes a truly great player to win one. Most of us know that. Especially those of us who have been watching for years. The TAR format of playing long matches is not the only way to determine who the best players are. To win a major tournament, you may have to win eight to ten Races to NIne or Eleven. That's a lot of pool, any way you cut it.

By the way the aforementioned Mosconi Cup is currently being shown (full length matches) on Fox Sports. Maybe the American networks are waking up to the fact that pool gets huge audiences overseas. Pool in China is one of the biggest television sports in terms of viewership and the top players are stars! Last I heard China is four times the size of the US and a lot more prosperous as well. We are playing catch up in more ways than one.

I will say this once again, the top American players need to get out of their little cocoons and find a way to compete internationally. Johnny has paid his dues and his career is winding down, but we do have a lot of young talent in this country. They should be going where the action is of just be content with being small time players. Would I say this to their face? You're damn right I would! And I have, more than once. If you read my earlier post I've offered to fully sponsor a player in the World Championship and was turned down. There are a lot of guys like me in this country who might be willing to send a player overseas if he showed the right stuff. I was staking Mike Dechaine before he was MIKE DECHAINE! :grin:

I'm not angry at pool fans or pool. I'm not angry at anyone. I just refuse to jump on the bandwagon of slamming players for things they don't deserve to be slammed for. Good on you for offering to sponsor someone. Maybe the guy didnt like the deal or just didnt want to go through the hassle of travel. When any other business person decides not to do something based on the potential return on investment of time and money it's accepted as being smart business but when players do it they are called scared or lazy.

Players take heat for trying to make a living playing pool then when they don't try to take even bigger chances they take heat for being scared to compete. It's nuts.

You stopped promoting tournaments because it didnt make sense for you to continue. No one is calling you names for that decision. Why should the players be any different?

 

[jay helfert]

I'm not angry at pool fans or pool. I'm not angry at anyone. I just refuse to jump on the bandwagon of slamming players for things they don't deserve to be slammed for. Good on you for offering to sponsor someone. Maybe the guy didnt like the deal or just didnt want to go through the hassle of travel. When any other business person decides not to do something based on the potential return on investment of time and money it's accepted as being smart business but when players do it they are called scared or lazy.

Players take heat for trying to make a living playing pool then when they don't try to take even bigger chances they take heat for being scared to compete. It's nuts.

You stopped promoting tournaments because it didnt make sense for you to continue. No one is calling you names for that decision. Why should the players be any different?

I'm not mad at any player for whatever decision they make, even the guy who turned me down. It's their life and they can do what they want. I'm just disappointed that a once powerful pool nation has fallen to such a low standing in the world pool community.

Not so long ago the Mosconi Cup was in danger because of US dominance. Now it's just the opposite. Our teams look weak by comparison. Maybe you don't care but I do. I want to see some American players step up and fill the shoes left by our former champions. Maybe I miss seeing Sigel and the Miz run out on the world. We had Nicky, Earl and Rempe waiting in the wings if necessary. Plus Buddy was here if anyone wanted to bet a few bucks. There were a dozen other guys who could take on anyone at any game (Hopkins, Fusco, Wade Crane, David Howard and on and on).

Where have all our flowers gone a long, long time ago? You weren't here to see it Justin, but I witnessed the heyday of pool in America and it's sad to see it gone, maybe forever. We had a hundred (maybe two hundred) great players in this country from 20-40 years ago. Straight Pool, One Pocket, Banks and 9-Ball, the USA ruled! No more though, no more. :frown:

P.S. There is an analogous situation in men's pro tennis today. The Americans used to have several dominant players at all times. Now we are lucky to have one who is competitive on the world stage (Roddick).

 

[itsfroze]

Justin
How many of the players have you used in your excellent broadcasts would have caught your eye if they had not gone out and played on the World Stage. Raj? Oscar? Darren? Earl and Busta had to go global to get as good as they are. Likewise, how good would Shane be if he didn't have a US Passport? He has played World 8 Ball, 9 Ball and 10 Ball which are all WPA supported events.
It is a shame (No! It's ludicrous) that the US don't have a team in the World Team Championship next week. Shane VB, Hunter Lombardo, Brandon Shuff and Mike Dechaine could have enlisted one female US player. Not many teams would relish that team as their first opponents. But nobody told them. So this is down to poor communication within your pool community. Otherwise how have all the other countries (including a few with third world credentials) managed to get teams there?

Come on America, we do care and we do want you there. Somebody pick up the baton, but not the self indulgent APB.

--------------------------------------------

Quote from: Jerry Forsyth

Yesterday, 07:37 AM
The WPA DID invite a team from America to participate and no one wished to attend. The WPA cannot force players to attend their events. This team event requires one woman per team and that was problematic for many players. As far as invitation timing it has been a problem for a long time. Many of the promoters that the WPA works through do not work on the details of their events like the host hotel and airport transportation and even the number of entrants until the last minute. The WPA has applied constant pressure in this regard to little avail.

 

[efirkey]

A lot of the international players don't come to the US Open, which I believe at one point may have been a bigger deal to win than the world championship, so why is it a big deal if a lot of the Americans don't go to the World tournament.

And yes, there were quite a few international players there, but there could have more.

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

Jay at one time you were one of the top promoters in pool. Why did you stop? You were striving to be the best you could at something. Pool promoters in Asia seem to be able to keep putting on big events why can't the US promoters do the same?

Looks a little different from the other side doesn't it?

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. I think if someone chooses to be a business man or not to be a business man, that is primarily a financial decision. If someone chooses to attempt to be a world class pool player, that is a personal decision. Financial success for the business man takes hard work because all you are trying to do is earn enough money to thrive and survive. Being world class at anything takes more than just hard work. It also takes sacrifice - blood, sweat and tears - especially knowing that it might not pay off in any way, not financially, not in pride, not in recognition. But they do it anyway, because they love it and they want it. The point here is that the people not going to the WPC are not trying to be world class basically by definition.

"When we call it a game you call it a business, and when we call it a business you call it a game"

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

Players take heat for trying to make a living playing pool then when they don't try to take even bigger chances they take heat for being scared to compete. It's nuts.

They are taking heat from two different groups who have opposing opinions. This happens in life. I almost said it's a part of the sacrifice. But actually this is a common occurrence in life for many people. You just deal with it.

 

[JCIN]

I'm not mad at any player for whatever decision they make, even the guy who turned me down. It's their life and they can do what they want. I'm just disappointed that a once powerful pool nation has fallen to such a low standing in the world pool community.

Not so long ago the Mosconi Cup was in danger because of US dominance. Now it's just the opposite. Our teams look weak by comparison. Maybe you don't care but I do. I want to see some American players step up and fill the shoes left by our former champions. Maybe I miss seeing Sigel and the Miz run out on the world. We had Nicky, Earl and Rempe waiting in the wings if necessary. Plus Buddy was here if anyone wanted to bet a few bucks. There were a dozen other guys who could take on anyone at any game (Hopkins, Fusco, Wade Crane, David Howard and on and on).

Where have all our flowers gone a long, long time ago? You weren't here to see it Justin, but I witnessed the heyday of pool in America and it's sad to see it gone, maybe forever. We had a hundred (maybe two hundred) great players in this country from 20-40 years ago. Straight Pool, One Pocket, Banks and 9-Ball, the USA ruled! No more though, no more. :frown:

I dont see too many guys lining up to play Schmidt 14.1, Frost one pocket, Shane 10 Ball or Brumback Banks. If Americans are that weak some of these international guys should come to Derby or Tunica and rob the whole country. I didnt want to bring gambling into it because its a different game altogether from tournament play. Even the Pinoy's dont want any in any game besides 9/10 ball.(Efren excluded of course because he could beat God at all games if he felt like it).

If you want you go get one international player for each discipline and I'll get an American. They can play a nice long set for say $10K each. One player per discipline per side. Say five players and do Banks, 1P, 14.1, 8 Ball and 10 Ball. No Efren allowed and I have the nuts on two and a favorite on two. I'm only half joking here. I think I could dig in my phone book and get up $50K for the American side.

American pool hasn't slipped as much as the rest of the world just got a hell of a lot better. Buddy Hall told me when I asked him the "New vs Old" question: "Used to be when I went to a tournament I knew there were four or five guys I had to beat to win. Today everybody runs out." Besides 40 years ago no one in Asia or Europe was playing like now.

Wu came to the US in May and didnt play that well. Half the top Euros live in America some for many years. If pool in the US sucks so bad how come so many top players that have the opportunity end up living here ?

 

[sjm]

I dont see too many guys lining up to play Schmidt 14.1, Frost one pocket, Shane 10 Ball or Brumback Banks. If Americans are that weak some of these international guys should come to Derby or Tunica and rob the whole country. I didnt want to bring gambling into it because its a different game altogether from tournament play. Even the Pinoy's dont want any in any game besides 9/10 ball.(Efren excluded of course because he could beat God at all games if he felt like it).

If you want you go get one international player for each discipline and I'll get an American. They can play a nice long set for say $10K each. One player per discipline per side. Say five players and do Banks, 1P, 14.1, 8 Ball and 10 Ball. No Efren allowed and I have the nuts on two and a favorite on two. I'm only half joking here. I think I could dig in my phone book and get up $50K for the American side.

American pool hasn't slipped as much as the rest of the world just got a hell of a lot better. Buddy Hall told me when I asked him the "New vs Old" question: "Used to be when I went to a tournament I knew there were four or five guys I had to beat to win. Today everybody runs out." Besides 40 years ago no one in Asia or Europe was playing like now.

Wu came to the US in May and didnt play that well. Half the top Euros live in America some for many years. If pool in the US sucks so bad how come so many top players that have the opportunity end up living here ?

Actually, the greatest domination in any dscipline in cuesports is the Eruropean domination of 14.1. In the last seven 14.1 tournaments that had signifciant participation form both the Americans and the Europeans, all seven of which were contested on American soil, the winners were, in order, Souquet, Hohmann, Ortmann, Feijen, Cohen, Ortmann, and Hohmann. In the first six of these, no American even reached the final, with Mike Davis breaking the drought in 2011. Nobody can hold a candle to the Europeans in 14.1, but to their credit, our 14.1 stars, unlike our 9/10 balls stars, keep giving it a try against the most elite players.

One pocket and bank pool are American games played almost exclusively in America, and yes, we're the best at those disciplines, although take note that Alex Pagulayan and John Morra snapped off the last two bank pool events at Derby City.

But none of this matters, for 9/10 ball has been the world championship discipline for decades now, and is the meauring stick for greatness in this era.
Nobody shows up to play Shane in ten ball? Bustamante took him down in the TAR format, took him down in their match at the "Fatboy" 10-ball event at Derby City, and took him down again at the US Open 10-ball. Yeah, he's real scared. Orcullo dropped by the US in May and, with Shane in both fields, took down the event at Hard Times and the US Open 10-ball. Another guy that's scared, right?

Change the format, change the rules, change the length of the match, change this and change that, but no matter how much you change, the Americans are not the best in rotation pool games anymore and they haven't been for a while. Like Jay, I'm not living in denial. We've fallen a long way. I've spent 37 years on the tournament trail and remember the best of times, and like Jay, I long for their return.

As a loyal TAR customer, I hate to debate somebody who has made such an important contribution to the pool scene in America. I really am a fan of yours. Still, I am concerned that a few too many American pros live in denial about where they stand competitively, and that this will get in the way of their putting in the effort to return to international competitive prominence.

 

[Jaden]

I'm sorry but...

You cannot count ANYONE that lives in America and happens to have been born or even learned how to play pool a European...or A Phillipino, etc...

If they're living in America, they are getting their experience and seasoning from America and to still consider people who have lived in the US for several years a foreign player is plain WRONG IMO...

Would they be competing at the level they are if they weren't living and competing in America??? We can't know, so including them gives erroneous results...

Jaden

 

[Fatboy]

Justin, in your rant here you seem angry at pool in general and pool fans in particular. I'm not sure why you feel this way, other than the frustrations you may have from working so hard to make TAR successful. It's not easy being a promoter in the pool world is it? I put in a solid twenty years promoting pool tournaments so I'm not exactly a Johnny-come-lately. Yes I have been disappointed more than once, but I never gave up on the game I love.

I no longer have the energy necessary to put on a major event (although the thought still crosses my mind from time to time). It's a lot of work with little reward in the end. But I'm proud of what I accomplished in my time as a promoter.

The reality of the pool world has not changed much in the years that I've been involved. There's never been enough money to go around to support a large group of players. Only the very best have been able to make a decent living at the game. Or the very smart ones who develop as many revenue streams as possible. Some of the most successful players of my generation made their living doing something else besides shooting balls in the hole. They opened poolrooms, made cues, started leagues, etc. etc. Allen Hopkins hasn't done so bad with his Super Expo, has he? And he was a damn good player as well.

Even with this reality there have always been a few players who made a good living from pool. I know for a fact that Earl made over 300K a year for several years at the height of his career. Ralf and Shane and a few others are able to make 200K+ every year as a professional pool player. But to do this they must compete on the international stage. Professional pool has evolved, just like golf, tennis, basketball and baseball. It's no longer exclusively an "American" sport. It's an international game played by great players from all over the globe. If you are interested in pursuing the game at the highest level, than you must adapt to this reality and get on a plane and go play. Or you can remain a lower level pro and only compete where it's convenient (and inexpensive) for you to do so.

Say what you want about the "short races" in these various world championships, it's ALWAYS the best players who get there in the end. Playing high level pool is about how well you handle the pressure when the title (and the money) is at stake. Some can handle it and some can't. Darren can and that's why he is a true champion! Same for Dennis O., Francisco and Efren before him. Johnny was cut from that mold and so is Shane. These major tournaments are no joke. It takes a truly great player to win one. Most of us know that. Especially those of us who have been watching for years. The TAR format of playing long matches is not the only way to determine who the best players are. To win a major tournament, you may have to win eight to ten Races to NIne or Eleven. That's a lot of pool, any way you cut it.

By the way the aforementioned Mosconi Cup is currently being shown (full length matches) on Fox Sports. Maybe the American networks are waking up to the fact that pool gets huge audiences overseas. Pool in China is one of the biggest television sports in terms of viewership and the top players are stars! Last I heard China is four times the size of the US and a lot more prosperous as well. We are playing catch up in more ways than one.

I will say this once again, the top American players need to get out of their little cocoons and find a way to compete internationally. Johnny has paid his dues and his career is winding down, but we do have a lot of young talent in this country. They should be going where the action is of just be content with being small time players. Would I say this to their face? You're damn right I would! And I have, more than once. If you read my earlier post I've offered to fully sponsor a player in the World Championship and was turned down. There are a lot of guys like me in this country who might be willing to send a player overseas if he showed the right stuff. I was staking Mike Dechaine before he was MIKE DECHAINE! :grin:

I was with Jay on the rail betting on Mike, Jay said "This kid is in the big leagues, he just dont know it yet" We could see he had something special. There is a 18 yr old kid here who plays at Red Shoes in Chicago that has got "It" too, If he would listen to Beard or someone like that, for a year-everyone would know his name. Wow. If he really got good help from a few guys and experience he might go the whole way, he might become world beater. He is a solid player already. I cant beat him, no chance. Hope he does well.


the 2 young players i named above Mike and the kid @ Red Shoes both live in America and there are very few tournments for them to go play now. The "Tournemnt Trail" is kinda a thing of the past, when JA was comming up he had a different stop every month at the very least, he had Swanee, Varner, Buddy to help him. Now Mike plays in Maine and dont get out as often as it takes to jump to the next level IMO. Going out 4-6 times a year isnt enought. My point is there is no infrastructure to support young guys with talent to really step up and make it. Same thing happened to Cha-Ching he got messed up with China? somewhere else. When Ching was 16 he was a world beater now 5 years later we dont hear as much about him.


so my point is for young guys to come up there must be structure in place, it is firmly in place in snooker and the Chinese kids are coming up fast and solid. I dont see that opertuntiy here in America anymore. not that it was ever perfect, but there is less of it now than ever. A structure that allows the creme to rise to the top. I'm not talking about a guy like me or Jay or JCIN to play our best, none of us have what it takes to be world beaters structure or not. I'm mean a sturcture that is in place so that one in a million gifted person can run with it. You cant do it at home IMO.


Thats whats lacking in America, and I have no solution to solve it. if I did i'd be all over it. I hope Bonus Ball works, Larry has put years of time and millions into it-saw it first hand. League pool is good to put cues in peoples hands but it not going to produce world class players. I am glad leagues exist, anything to help cue sports is a good thing. Pro-pool is a oxymoron in America now more than ever-thats the right word I think. It just isnt here anymore, Shane, Mike, Hunter, Cory, Rodney and a few guys have a handle on it, fewer every decade it seems.

 

[itsfroze]

I was with Jay on the rail betting on Mike, Jay said "This kid is in the big leagues, he just dont know it yet" We could see he had something special. There is a 18 yr old kid here who plays at Red Shoes in Chicago that has got "It" too, If he would listen to Beard or someone like that, for a year-everyone would know his name. Wow. If he really got good help from a few guys and experience he might go the whole way, he might become world beater. He is a solid player already. I cant beat him, no chance. Hope he does well.


the 2 young players i named above Mike and the kid @ Red Shoes both live in America and there are very few tournments for them to go play now. The "Tournemnt Trail" is kinda a thing of the past, when JA was comming up he had a different stop every month at the very least, he had Swanee, Varner, Buddy to help him. Now Mike plays in Maine and dont get out as often as it takes to jump to the next level IMO. Going out 4-6 times a year isnt enought. My point is there is no infrastructure to support young guys with talent to really step up and make it. Same thing happened to Cha-Ching he got messed up with China? somewhere else. When Ching was 16 he was a world beater now 5 years later we dont hear as much about him.


so my point is for young guys to come up there must be structure in place, it is firmly in place in snooker and the Chinese kids are coming up fast and solid. I dont see that opertuntiy here in America anymore. not that it was ever perfect, but there is less of it now than ever. A structure that allows the creme to rise to the top. I'm not talking about a guy like me or Jay or JCIN to play our best, none of us have what it takes to be world beaters structure or not. I'm mean a sturcture that is in place so that one in a million gifted person can run with it. You cant do it at home IMO.


Thats whats lacking in America, and I have no solution to solve it. if I did i'd be all over it. I hope Bonus Ball works, Larry has put years of time and millions into it-saw it first hand. League pool is good to put cues in peoples hands but it not going to produce world class players. I am glad leagues exist, anything to help cue sports is a good thing. Pro-pool is a oxymoron in America now more than ever-thats the right word I think. It just isnt here anymore, Shane, Mike, Hunter, Cory, Rodney and a few guys have a handle on it, fewer every decade it seems.

Mike lives and plays in R.I. at Snookers Sports Bar and Billiards and is sponsored by the owner there.

 

[Fatboy]

Mike lives and plays in R.I. at Snookers Sports Bar and Billiards and is sponsored by the owner there.

yeah I know him, great guy, he has been to my house in Vegas -he has a fish tattoo on his leg where i have a similar one. I get those NE states confused.

IMO Mike should have played in Qatar, IDK what the qusalifications were to get in, I know he plays good enuff to play there.

 

[itsfroze]

yeah I know him, great guy, he has been to my house in Vegas -he has a fish tattoo on his leg where i have a similar one. I get those NE states confused.

IMO Mike should have played in Qatar, IDK what the qusalifications were to get in, I know he plays good enuff to play there.

They only gave him a months notice when they sent him the invitation and he said on az yesterday that it just wasn't enough time. He was in the match with Hatch and right after that he had a tournament.

 

[jay helfert]

I dont see too many guys lining up to play Schmidt 14.1, Frost one pocket, Shane 10 Ball or Brumback Banks. If Americans are that weak some of these international guys should come to Derby or Tunica and rob the whole country. I didnt want to bring gambling into it because its a different game altogether from tournament play. Even the Pinoy's dont want any in any game besides 9/10 ball.(Efren excluded of course because he could beat God at all games if he felt like it).

If you want you go get one international player for each discipline and I'll get an American. They can play a nice long set for say $10K each. One player per discipline per side. Say five players and do Banks, 1P, 14.1, 8 Ball and 10 Ball. No Efren allowed and I have the nuts on two and a favorite on two. I'm only half joking here. I think I could dig in my phone book and get up $50K for the American side.

American pool hasn't slipped as much as the rest of the world just got a hell of a lot better. Buddy Hall told me when I asked him the "New vs Old" question: "Used to be when I went to a tournament I knew there were four or five guys I had to beat to win. Today everybody runs out." Besides 40 years ago no one in Asia or Europe was playing like now.

Wu came to the US in May and didnt play that well. Half the top Euros live in America some for many years. If pool in the US sucks so bad how come so many top players that have the opportunity end up living here ?

This really is apples and oranges Justin. You're talking about gambling and I'm talking about competing on the world stage in major tournaments. You won't get in the Hall of Fame by winning TAR matches!

As far as why so many players have moved here. Why do so many people want to live here? Because of the lifestyle, that's why. Even with all our problems, the USA is still the most desired country for people to emigrate to. Funny thing is these same players who have moved here (Mika, Darren, Thorsten) are still out there competing internationally. They somehow find a way to go, when our top players are staying home playing in some regional event where they can win $600.

 

[itsfroze]

Just love the super slow motion they have, not to mention the crystal clear
picture. Haven't seen that super slow motion on any stream before.
Now if I could just figure out what their saying, oh well.
Edit: We do have freezing :thumbup:
Some of the best camera work I've seen!

 

[gopi-1]

Just love the super slow motion they have, not to mention the crystal clear
picture. Haven't seen that super slow motion on any stream before.
Now if I could just figure out what their saying, oh well.
Haven't seen any freezing either that's a pleasant change. :thumbup:

Are you sure you're in the right thread itsfroze?