Pros vs 8-ball on TAR

[Celtic]

There is alot of interesting debate about the upcomming TAR 8-ball match between Corey and John on Friday, July 13th.

Here on the main forum we had a big debate on this in this thread, many people saying "open off the break" is simply too easy and the pros will be running out tons of racks. They said the only way to stop the players from running out constantly would be "take what you make".

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=280492

Given the feedback and many thinking that the game would be way too easy with "open off the break" which ended up winning the poll to set the rules I tried to get some cheap action on the set betting that the pros will break and run at less then a 50% pace, but the Action Room regulars had a little bit of a different view on this and alot of people loved betting on less then 50% runouts and noone wanted anything to do with betting the other way.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=280670

So I am curious now, how do people see this going? Are we going to see huge packages and lots of runouts and a humbling of the game of 8-ball? Or are we going to see the game of 8-ball on the tight TAR table show it's teeth and prove to be a challenging game for two of the top American pros where runouts are a challenge and not the norm?

 

[jhanso18]

I think with the "fatboy" rails on this table it will take some adjustment. These boys better bring their safety games.

 

[Celtic]

I think with the "fatboy" rails on this table it will take some adjustment. These boys better bring their safety games.

Yeah, I cannot wait to hear Corey talk about this after the match, since he said 8-ball on the 9-foot will be too easy without "take what you make". I think he is going to be admitting that he spoke too soon and that this table makes 8-ball pretty tough, even for the pros.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Are the Fatboy rails being put back on for this match? I don't believe they were used in the last TAR challenge. The TAR table itself is tighter than a standard Diamond, I think around 4 1/8" to 4 1/4", but not quite as tight as with the Fatboy cushions.

 

[Celtic]

Are the Fatboy rails being put back on for this match? I don't believe they were used in the last TAR challenge. The TAR table itself is tighter than a standard Diamond, I think around 4 1/8" to 4 1/4", but not quite as tight as with the Fatboy cushions.

From what I remember Fatboy got his rails back when TAR bought a new set that were in effect identical. I think the Fatboy rails were the same size and cut as the 4 1/8th inch rails that TAR now has.

 

[Masayoshi]

I think they are probably better than 50% on the shot after the break, so it depends on how the break goes. If they figure the break out early on, they probably will get close to if not above 50%. If they don't figure it out or figure it out late in the match, they wont get to 50%.

 

[Slh]

i think the "take what you make" is a terrible rule. The break has a big part of luck involved, why do we want to increase that even more? The open table after the break is a better rule because deminishes the luck and we can see pattern not affected by how much lucky you get after the break.

 

[Spimp13]

I think they are probably better than 50% on the shot after the break, so it depends on how the break goes. If they figure the break out early on, they probably will get close to if not above 50%. If they don't figure it out or figure it out late in the match, they wont get to 50%.

I have my paypal ready, please ship me a batch of this new strain of ganja you are smoking, it sounds like the real deal!

 

[mikeyfrost]

You are right guys, you should be able to break, lose your cue ball, make a ball then be able to shoot at whatever you want vs controlling your cue ball keeping it center table so you have best chance to continue your run.

Sometimes I wonder if people on this forum even play pool for the cash. Trust me if you think you are the better player you should want the game as tough as possible.

 

[Apocalypse2017]

23.4% will be the run out percentage next week.

 

[Slh]

You are right guys, you should be able to break, lose your cue ball, make a ball then be able to shoot at whatever you want vs controlling your cue ball keeping it center table so you have best chance to continue your run.

Sometimes I wonder if people on this forum even play pool for the cash. Trust me if you think you are the better player you should want the game as tough as possible.

edit..........................

 

[Slh]

You are right guys, you should be able to break, lose your cue ball, make a ball then be able to shoot at whatever you want vs controlling your cue ball keeping it center table so you have best chance to continue your run.

Sometimes I wonder if people on this forum even play pool for the cash. Trust me if you think you are the better player you should want the game as tough as possible.

so to make the game tougher let's increase even more the luck on the break. You know there is so little luck in breaking!

 

[Spimp13]

so to make the game tougher let's increase even more the luck on the break.

So to make the game easier, lets reward bad uncontrolled breaks for those who just want to slam the rack and make it open after the break.

 

[Slh]

So to make the game easier, lets reward bad uncontrolled breaks for those who just want to slam the rack and make it open after the break.

If reducing luck makes the game easier then there is something wrong in pool. Basically these matches beetween the pros are a coin toss and wins who "get more rolls".
You also forget the tar table has 4,2 in pockets, if the open table after the break is so easy, why all the pros have a near 30% of B%R during the ipt with 4,5 in pockets ( the cloth was slower however)?

 

[Spimp13]

So to make the game harder lets reward who get more lucky on the break.
If reducing luck makes the game easier then there is something wrong in pool. Basically these matches beetween the pros are a coin toss and wins who "get more rolls".
You also forget the tar tables have 4,2 in pockets, if the open table after the break is so easy, why all the pros has a near 30% of B%R?

The break by itself is a skill. It is just one aspect of the game that one needs to learn to become a pro. There will always potentially be a bit of luck on the break for balls that tie up, or if a ball kicks the cue ball into a pocket whether you break good or bad. I believe people should be punished for not controlling their break and just slamming the rack. You don't have to slam the rack to have a pro level break, so why would you want to reward the guy who just hits it the hardest and doesn't control the rock by letting him choose what he wants after he makes a ball? A shorter race for sure may be a coin toss with a lot of pros and once again it's just a personal preference, but to me a runout is that much sweeter when I get out after taking what I make as opposed to the opposite. These guys can (and will) come up with some big shots. Let's make the challenge harder for them. They are pros for a reason, lets see it in action, and enjoy the show.

 

[Ratta]

You are right guys, you should be able to break, lose your cue ball, make a ball then be able to shoot at whatever you want vs controlling your cue ball keeping it center table so you have best chance to continue your run.

Sometimes I wonder if people on this forum even play pool for the cash. Trust me if you think you are the better player you should want the game as tough as possible.

"High Five!"
:thumbup:

 

[Slh]

The break by itself is a skill. It is just one aspect of the game that one needs to learn to become a pro. There will always potentially be a bit of luck on the break for balls that tie up, or if a ball kicks the cue ball into a pocket whether you break good or bad. I believe people should be punished for not controlling their break and just slamming the rack. You don't have to slam the rack to have a pro level break, so why would you want to reward the guy who just hits it the hardest and doesn't control the rock by letting him choose what he wants after he makes a ball? A shorter race for sure may be a coin toss with a lot of pros and once again it's just a personal preference, but to me a runout is that much sweeter when I get out after taking what I make as opposed to the opposite. These guys can (and will) come up with some big shots. Let's make the challenge harder for them. They are pros for a reason, lets see it in action, and enjoy the show.

I agree the break is a skill and should be rewarded. But controlling the cb on the break is a skill even with the open table. Why do you think a player shouldn't controll the white with an open table? I agree with an open table controlling the cb is less important than the "takes what you make" but it is still important. I understand your reason for choosing the take what you make, but I think decreasing the luck involved on the break is crucial to have a match decided by who play better and not by who gets the luckier breaks and the easiest layouts. The luck on the break with an open table is even imo with the open table instead with the closed table has a bigger part.

 

[Scott Lee]

Either way they would play this match (open after the break vs. take what you make), playing 8 ball there will be nowhere close to 50% break and runs...even from these two elite players. I would bet on 25-30% at best.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[supergreenman]

You are right guys, you should be able to break, lose your cue ball, make a ball then be able to shoot at whatever you want vs controlling your cue ball keeping it center table so you have best chance to continue your run.

Sometimes I wonder if people on this forum even play pool for the cash. Trust me if you think you are the better player you should want the game as tough as possible.

You can control the cueball all you want, there is still going to be luck involved in the break.

The fact which is indisputable is that take what you make favors the person sitting in the chair and that's not right.

 

[Celtic]

So to make the game easier, lets reward bad uncontrolled breaks for those who just want to slam the rack and make it open after the break.

When you have 15 balls flying around the table there is this thing called "being kicked" where an object ball hits the cueball and where it goes from there is not exactly the result of a uncontrolled break.