Break Speed DISCUSSION

[randallt6]

I started attempting to imitate evgeny stalev's break technique and now I can pop the cueball about 2 feet in the air and have it land right in the middle of the table without even trying to hit them hard.

It's the twisting of my back arm then using my whole arm to follow-through that creates so much power. I found it to be the easiest way to get a bigger break.. Although a harder break isn't always a better break. I find the harder I break them the more clusters end up on the table.

Just my 2 cents

 

[randallt6]

I started attempting to imitate evgeny stalev's break technique and now I can pop the cueball about 2 feet in the air and have it land right in the middle of the table without even trying to hit them hard.

It's the twisting of my back arm then using my whole arm to follow-through that creates so much power. I found it to be the easiest way to get a bigger break.. Although a harder break isn't always a better break. I find the harder I break them the more clusters end up on the table.

Just my 2 cents

Last night I even had my opponent ask me after our match what kind of breaker I was using Cuz he said I hit them real good. Was kinda cool to get asked that. Then next match I got crushed. Haha...

 

[JoeyA]

Another paradox on breaking is: Move your hand a little more forward of where you normally hold the cue. Which is best, more forward grip, normal grip or further back grip (to extend the lever). I've seen some great breakers with their hand forward. I'm going to have fun trying them all. :grin:

 

[branpureza]

I started attempting to imitate evgeny stalev's break technique and now I can pop the cueball about 2 feet in the air and have it land right in the middle of the table without even trying to hit them hard.

If imitating Stalev is helping you out then I'd keep at it.

That being said, Stalev is 1 in 6 billion... If you've ever seen his action when he really goes after them it's amazing. I don't think anyone in history has ever been able to deliver the cue as straight as him with that type of action. The way his grip hand falls into plane after coming ABOVE HIS HEAD is a glorious sight to behold.

 

[peter_gunn]

If imitating Stalev is helping you out then I'd keep at it.

That being said, Stalev is 1 in 6 billion... If you've ever seen his action when he really goes after them it's amazing. I don't think anyone in history has ever been able to deliver the cue as straight as him with that type of action. The way his grip hand falls into plane after coming ABOVE HIS HEAD is a glorious sight to behold.

Him and Robeto Gomez

 

[KMRUNOUT]

You jogged my mind, I wonder how long it takes for the cue ball to reach its' maximum velocity. You might think closer to rack is better. However I don't know if it will reach maximum speed. It might be better from the rail to allow time to reach max speed but that's also more time & distance to go off line. If max speed is not reached from the force put on the ball, does is it transfered to the rack or is it spent in rebound. I don't know the answer. Where's the physics expert?

On the break, the cue ball reaches its maximum speed at the exact instant it comes away from the cuetip, possibly a microsecond before. The point is that because once the cue is no longer touching the cue ball, the only forces acting on the cue ball are friction from the cloth, air resistance, and some very tiny other little forces that are essentially negligible (vibration, sound, heat from friction, etc.)

This means that for purposes of maximum cueball speed at the moment it contacts the head ball, you should break as close to center and all the way up to the head string. The closer the cueball is to the head ball to start with, the LESS speed it will LOSE on the way to the rack.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Matt]

Full rack, same thing, spot ball in opposite side pocket. Hit the one or spot ball as though you are hitting it straight from the side pocket from which you are shooting near the rail @ 2nd. diamond. The cue has a tendancy to scratch in the corner. So, draw it to the side rail with low rail side english. Snapshot9 will probably confirm but Mr. Lee probably won't. He thinks it's all about speed.(I could make a diparaging comment but I won't) PS If spot ball misses down table (rack side) hit it a little more full. If it missses up table cut it a little more. PSS We called this the 'soft spot break' it works better on hall tables than coin. I measured a few coin tables & they were not exactly 2 to 1 lenght to width. That's probably why but it still is makable but harder to figure the adjustment.

I suppose that's useful if you're just trying to make a ball, but for 10-ball, it would be nice to make a ball other than the one so you can play position on the one. Any ideas for doing that?

 

[JoeyA]

Last night I even had my opponent ask me after our match what kind of breaker I was using Cuz he said I hit them real good. Was kinda cool to get asked that. Then next match I got crushed. Haha...

You should start selling break cues. :wink:

 

[JoeyA]

Him and Robeto Gomez

There is also an Asian girl who raises her grip hand almost as high as Roberto. I forget which one......

Tried raising the hand up like that and thought I was going to cut the cloth in half.:grin-square:

 

[naji]

On the break, the cue ball reaches its maximum speed at the exact instant it comes away from the cuetip, possibly a microsecond before. The point is that because once the cue is no longer touching the cue ball, the only forces acting on the cue ball are friction from the cloth, air resistance, and some very tiny other little forces that are essentially negligible (vibration, sound, heat from friction, etc.)

This means that for purposes of maximum cueball speed at the moment it contacts the head ball, you should break as close to center and all the way up to the head string. The closer the cueball is to the head ball to start with, the LESS speed it will LOSE on the way to the rack.

KMRUNOUT

I disagree on break shots, on break shot, the long follow through guarantees that your brain does not issue the command to stop forward motion until Cue tip hit the OB, if you do not follow through brain speed beat your arm speed and order your hand to stop half way and kill your momentum and cue delivery speed before the tip hits the CB.
I agree once tip hit CB it is gone, similar to Golf shot, why do the follow through!

 

[naji]

Maximum speed is accomplished as soon as the cue ball leaves the tip.

Do you happen to have a video of yourself breaking so we can see how all this awesome information you've given us is translated into your break?

truthfully i have not measure my break yet, but recently with modifications i did to my break as stated in previous posts, people commented few times that it is strong break and balls fly all over from seeing other people speed i'd say it probably clocks 24-28 not sure if it does 30 MPH. I will download the IPOD app, and test at home and hope time allow to video tap, will see. After all i am 30 years experienced one pocket player converting to nine ball game to improve my one pocket ball run skill

 

[RBC]

We have "tense-up the muscles", we have "loosen-up the muscles". What to do what to do? I'll try both.

BTW, I did notice that the winner of the BIG Ten Ball TOURNAMENT in Atlanta, GA a week ago was using an OB Break Cue. As he crushed the balls on every break, making balls fly in from everywhere, I asked him about the OB Break Cue and he said he had better control with it than with other break cues. :grin: I only lose 7-1 but others took a beating from him including Johnny Archer in the finals, 7-3 if I am not mistaken.

Thanks to everyone for the fine tips.

Who's got time to condense all of these tips?

Joey

I think the guy who mentioned tightening the muscles was talking about tightening them in a sequence or order during the actual break stroke. Obviously, your muscles will tighten as you stroke through the cue ball, but what I'm talking about is being loose before the break stroke. Basically, you only want to use the muscles that make the cue go forward. If you're too tense, then all your muscles are working. Even the ones that will hold your stroke back!

Yes, Phil Burford won the event in Atlanta, beating Johnny in the finals. Phil is a tremendous player. He beat Busy in an AccuStats challenge a month or 2 ago also. He's mentioned interest in one of our new playing cues as well.

 

[RBC]

I disagree on break shots, on break shot, the long follow through guarantees that your brain does not issue the command to stop forward motion until Cue tip hit the OB, if you do not follow through brain speed beat your arm speed and order your hand to stop half way and kill your momentum and cue delivery speed before the tip hits the CB.
I agree once tip hit CB it is gone, similar to Golf shot, why do the follow through!

Naji

The follow through is a direct result of what you do just before hitting the cue ball.

So, if you're goin at it all the way, you have to follow through.

I also agree that once the ball leaves the tip, it must be slowing down as there's nothing left to propel it any more.

 

[naji]

Naji

The follow through is a direct result of what you do just before hitting the cue ball.

So, if you're goin at it all the way, you have to follow through.

I also agree that once the ball leaves the tip, it must be slowing down as there's nothing left to propel it any more.

Bottom line if for reasons such as you are scared to hit you hand in the table edge brain instincts move in way before tip hits the CB, one reason not to follow through all the way

 

[Matt]

I think the guy who mentioned tightening the muscles was talking about tightening them in a sequence or order during the actual break stroke. Obviously, your muscles will tighten as you stroke through the cue ball, but what I'm talking about is being loose before the break stroke. Basically, you only want to use the muscles that make the cue go forward. If you're too tense, then all your muscles are working. Even the ones that will hold your stroke back!

Agreed. The mechanics of a power break and a fastball pitch in baseball are pretty similar. Obviously, one is overhand and the other underhand, but the idea of leading with the shoulder, then pulling the elbow forwards and finally snapping the wrist is the same.

It did just occur to me that baseball pitchers eventually tend to have some sort of shoulder or elbow problem. I wonder if that has happened to any pool players? I doubt it's much of a problem when playing, but I'd be careful repeatedly whipping my arm around using something like the breakrak.

 

[JoeyA]

Agreed. The mechanics of a power break and a fastball pitch in baseball are pretty similar. Obviously, one is overhand and the other underhand, but the idea of leading with the shoulder, then pulling the elbow forwards and finally snapping the wrist is the same.

It did just occur to me that baseball pitchers eventually tend to have some sort of shoulder or elbow problem. I wonder if that has happened to any pool players? I doubt it's much of a problem when playing, but I'd be careful repeatedly whipping my arm around using something like the breakrak.

Some "top speed breakers" have developed shoulder problems. One pro player had to quit pool because of it, that and he was good at other things that paid better.

I will be attempting to develop technique that will enhance my break speed but not attempting to work so hard at the technique development as to injure myself. It's just not that important to me. Learning to break at a slightly faster speed is simply a bit of lagniappe for my game but the cautionary statement is agreed with.

 

[TomHay]

I only back read a few posts. I can power break probably as good as most out there. I choose not to. The reason is I lower Cue Ball control and stand a better chance of scratching on the break. I play the front ball in the oppisite side pocket from rail break and hope if I miss it goes cross corner.

In 8 Ball on a bar box I will hit the third ball down from the front with draw as full as I can.

Hit um high watch them fly, hit them low watch them go.

 

[dr_dave]

...Cue weight is definitely a factor ... but the key is in whether or not the player can deliver the heavier cue at the same velocity as the lighter cue. ...

Now, Dr. Dave will come on here and tell me I'm full of it.

You're not "full of it." Sorry to disappoint you. :grin-square:

FYI, for a lot more info on this topic, see:

optimal cue weight resource page​

Enjoy,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

This thread is providing some of the best advice on breaking that I have ever seen.

Agreed. Good thread.

FYI, lot's of great advice from previous threads, including all of the good info (and video) from Colin Colenso, can be found here:

break technique and equipment advice resource page​

Thanks for the thread. Break and draw-shot technique threads always bring out good info and advice.

Regards,
Dave

 

[RBC]

Bottom line if for reasons such as you are scared to hit you hand in the table edge brain instincts move in way before tip hits the CB, one reason not to follow through all the way

Naji

I think your logic is sound, but you just need to come up with another way to keep from hitting your hand. Think about this. If your brain is planning to stop your follow through, how soon must it start to back off the "go forward" and start the "lets stop". The trouble is that if your brain is already putting on the breaks when you get to the cue ball, then your break will be poor anyway. You won't have any power, and you will have a hard time controlling where the cue ball goes. Putting on the breaks compromises both speed and direction.

Also, if you're hitting your hand on the table, I think you're out of position anyway. I can't say that I haven't hit my hand on the table, but I can say I've never done it when I hit the cue ball the way I'm supposed to.