Table cloth speed question

boyersj

boyersj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a used 8' Olhausen I purchased about a year ago and had 860 simonis put onto it. At first it felt "sluggish" for new cloth. About a month afterwards I noticed it was pretty loose and had to have an area inside the pocket be repaired. At that time the felt was re-stretched. This table has much less play than bar boxes with identical cloth. The speed is significantly slower and I keep it very clean, and I also keep the balls clean. The balls are around 15 years old but I bought a new cue ball about 4 months ago.

I am racking my brains trying to figure out why my ball speed at home isn't comprable to in tournaments. The adjustment is substantial and I would like to get it "closer". Re-felting is an option but when the cloth was brand-new it felt sluggish so I am unsure that is the answer. The rails are accuu-fasts and do seem to be problematic as well however even speed without contacting rails also seems slow.

That being said if I put new rubber on the rails, and my play away from home is diamonds, should I go to an artemis rubber? Any feedback or guidance would be helpful while I am in the decision-making process of how to move forward. Table plays fine, but the practice time isn't translating well for other tables.
 
A few things to check to diagnose problem -
cloth not stretched properly
(run your hand with slight pressure across the cloth and see if it bunches in front of hand)
cloth installed upside down
humidity causing the cloth to loosen
cushion nose height too high (should be 1 7/16")
dead cushions
loose cushions
cushions installed upside down (causes nose height to be too high)
polyester ball set
 
The ball set I currently have is the Aramith Premier, as this came with the table. I bought a new Aramith Super Pro cue ball but am now giving serious consideration to buying the tournament set since the balls are 15 years old or so.

The cloth isn't what I would consider loose now, it did go through a loosening phase but after the re-stretch it doesn't bunch up without significant force.

I am unsure of the humidity so I will get a hydrometer to know if this is critical. I would not expect it to be a problem since it is in central air maintained at 73F. I do let the temp creep up at night to 78.

The cushion height I will need to validate but the balls do not act peculiar as I have observed when rails were at an incorrect height. They play a very evident role in ball reaction. Also the ball is sluggish even when not contacting the rail.

The rails are tight to the slate and the cloth is tight to the rubber in all directions. The cushions don't feel dead but the sluggishness of the cloth contributes to them not feeling "live" As a result I am considering new rubber (hence why I asked if artemis would be a better replacement than accu-fast).

I do not know for a fact the cloth is upside-down or rightside-up. The cloth doesn't have anything fuzzy on the playing surface but when the cloth was put on I do remember both sides looking pretty similar.

I guess my stance at this time, is I do not have a diamond but if I am playing on the same cloth as a diamond I should not be saying to myself "wow this plays a lot faster than my table at home". I may be able to "complain" about the way the pockets play or the rail acting dead but the cloth itself should not be different.

I do not have any hesitation to buy new balls, or a dehumidifier, or new cloth as long as it "fixes" the problem. I just don't want any of the next steps to be guesses :)
 
I assume the table you are referring to is the one in your avatar. If that is the case, you really cannot compare the playability of a Diamond to an Olhausen home table. It is much, much more than just having the same cloth. The sub rails on the Diamond are calibrated perfectly for the cushions they use resulting in more lively rails. If you want your table to play like a Diamond, you will have to have your sub rails calibrated and your rubber changed.
 
rexus31 said:
I assume the table you are referring to is the one in your avatar. If that is the case, you really cannot compare the playability of a Diamond to an Olhausen home table. It is much, much more than just having the same cloth. The sub rails on the Diamond are calibrated perfectly for the cushions they use resulting in more lively rails. If you want your table to play like a Diamond, you will have to have your sub rails calibrated and your rubber changed.
Click to expand...

I agree with your post 100% correct, and your assumption that the table I am refering is in my avatar. However I think I must not have been clear with a statement I made in my own post. I know the cushions will play differently, the pockets will play differently as well.

However, if I am striking the same super pro cue ball (mass) with the same force on my table that is level as another table that is level with the same cloth (ie. friction loss) I should expect the distance travelled to be very similar until it is affected by something other than the cloth, which in this instance is the pocket or the rail.

My cloth is cleaner (use X-1) weekly or more frequently, my balls are cleaner, I am going to get a hydrometer to check humidity but my gut tells me since my home is cooler than where I play most of the times because their central air units just aren't keeping up with this summer's heat as well as mine, that my humidity isn't going to be a significant cause.
 
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boyersj said:
However, if I am striking the same super pro cue ball (mass) with the same force on my table that is level as another table that is level with the same cloth (ie. friction loss) I should expect the distance travelled to be very similar until it is affected by something other than the cloth, which in this instance is the pocket or the rail.
Click to expand...

I am not a table mechanic, but I do have an Olhausen home table with 860 and I share your frustration. One variable that hasn't been mentioned is the slate itself...mine has fairly noticeable machine grooves. I always assumed it was normal and that the cloth would mask it...starting to question that assumption.
 
Interesting information, I don't recall the surface texture when we covered my table, but it is something that I will definitely pay attention to when I recover. I would have expected slate to be perfectly flat within the most insignificant tolerances, regardless of brand or otherwise. Perhaps we will get some additional information as other read the thread!
 
Another possibility is that the cloth in the other place you play may not be 860.
Could be 760 or 860HR - both faster tan 860.

Try to peek under your rails and see where the cloth is glued/stapled to the slate liner.
Look for the side that should have a "finished" cloth edge and see if you
you can see the Simonis marking. If you do then the cloth is right side up.

I'd agree that your table is not going to play like a diamond however you should
be getting decent speed on the ball rolling on the cloth as well as off the cushions.
Further - the ball set being 15 yrs old regardless that they are aramith are probably
worn and not as slick as a new set. Maybe you can borrow a newer set from someone
to test.
 
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I will also check for the markings on the cloth, that just seems to be such an easy solution to my dilehma. Thank you so much for the advice. I did buy a new super pro cueball about 4 months ago and it reacts pretty similar to the "older" cue ball so I don't think that is the case. I can certainly set-up a gravity "chute" and compare actual distance of several variables. It might be interesting to see some actual trial data (forgive my engineering mentality). Old ball, new ball, my table - a couple other tables. All using identical force to measure. Along with the detecting humidity of course!
 
boyersj said:
I will also check for the markings on the cloth, that just seems to be such an easy solution to my dilehma. ...
Click to expand...

If upside down then we have the problem. If not then further diagnostics
would be necessary.

You will be looking for the finished cloth edge as shown for either this -
marking2.jpg

or this
marking1.jpg

The cloth edge will be marked at about every 24" so if you see any markings it's installed correct side up.

When cloth is cut we cut the rail pieces from one side and leave the other side uncut so one side of your table should have cloth with a finished edge - unless whoever installed it drapped it evenly over the slate edges (not something you want to do with simonis cloth) and then trimmed both sides, Short of that the top side of 860 is very smooth compared to the bottom side which is a bit rougher. Hope that helps.
 
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I checked the cloth and there isn't an uncut edge but comparing the sides, the smoother side is definitely upwards. I did find the cloth to "bunch up" a bit cross table on the head string side of the side pocket so I will re-stretch and report. I probably won't get it re-stretched until tomorrow evening.
 
The Diamond you are playing on could have Tournament Blue 860HR which is definitely faster than Green 860.
 
860hr will be a bit faster. color has no effect other than psychological. what makes it fast or slow will depend on the slate's hardness (pretty much all the same) humidity, and mostly proper stretch.
 
Re-stretched the cloth last night, didn't get the pockets secure so I don't know what the results will be.

I also noticed the mill marks running diagonal on the slate. I can't imagine they would contribute to an affect on speed since you cannot feel them through the cloth. When I change cloth, probably this winter, I am going to probably block the table as I saw some pretty cool posts in another thread.

Being proactive I believe I will get a dehumidifier just to help the central A/C. This should definitely eliminate humidity as a potential factor.

I appreciate all the feedback!
 
Why don't you sell the table you have and use that money plus the money you would spend on a dehumidifier to purchase a used Diamond? I think you are potentially chasing something that may never have the outcome you are looking for.
 
boyersj said:
I also noticed the mill marks running diagonal on the slate. I can't imagine they would contribute to an affect on speed since you cannot feel them through the cloth. When I change cloth, probably this winter, I am going to probably block the table as I saw some pretty cool posts in another thread.
Click to expand...

I came to the same conclusion initially; but like you, I'm going to have the slate lapped while it's apart...just in case.


boyersj said:
Being proactive I believe I will get a dehumidifier just to help the central A/C. This should definitely eliminate humidity as a potential factor.
Click to expand...

It will certainly help. If you really want to eliminate humidity as a candidate, put some heat lamps under the table until the cloth is a bit warm to the touch...like a 3-cushion table. This will drive moisture out of the slate and cloth that a de-humidifier can't. Be careful with this though as you may have to re-do your seams, especially if you used wax.
 
If the reason for buying a dehumidifier was exclusively for the pool table, I would concede the idea of buying a dehumidifier and agree to purchase a diamond.

This summer has been abnormally hot and recently higher humidity has been accompanying the heat. Late June and early July we had record breaking heat but it was not so humid. My central air was able to keep up with the 105+ heat (typical heat is 90ish for that time). Now that we are in the upper 90s with high humidity my central air is running pretty much all the time.

So the dehumidifier is a dual purpose, and in essence would be needed regardless of the brand of table.

Strict9, I developed the same opinion as you last night when I lightly sanded some of the spray adhesive that got onto the top of the slate. I noticed those "grooves" and said "these gotta go"!

I don't think I want to mess with the heat lamps (yet), as this weather is already alot on the A/C unit.
 
I like the way you talk.
billy+bob.jpg

Back to regularly scheduled program...
boyersj said:
I agree with your post 100% correct, and your assumption that the table I am refering is in my avatar. However I think I must not have been clear with a statement I made in my own post. I know the cushions will play differently, the pockets will play differently as well.

However, if I am striking the same super pro cue ball (mass) with the same force on my table that is level as another table that is level with the same cloth (ie. friction loss) I should expect the distance travelled to be very similar until it is affected by something other than the cloth, which in this instance is the pocket or the rail.

My cloth is cleaner (use X-1) weekly or more frequently, my balls are cleaner, I am going to get a hydrometer to check humidity but my gut tells me since my home is cooler than where I play most of the times because their central air units just aren't keeping up with this summer's heat as well as mine, that my humidity isn't going to be a significant cause.
Click to expand...
 
kid said:
860hr will be a bit faster. color has no effect other than psychological. what makes it fast or slow will depend on the slate's hardness (pretty much all the same) humidity, and mostly proper stretch.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but the Tour Blue does play faster than the Green 860, it's the difference in the dye used to color the cloth, Green has a heavier color pigmitation in it than the Blue does, therefore it makes the cloth threads a little thicker therefore a little slower than the Tour Blue 860, as the color Green adds a little bit more friction to the balls. ;)

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
Sorry, but the Tour Blue does play faster than the Green 860, it's the difference in the dye used to color the cloth, Green has a heavier color pigmitation in it than the Blue does, therefore it makes the cloth threads a little thicker therefore a little slower than the Tour Blue 860, as the color Green adds a little bit more friction to the balls. ;)

Glen
Click to expand...

don't be sorry if you are right.
 
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