1 hole and 14.1 Harder than Rotation Games?

PGHteacher said:
can you explain “equipment dependent”?
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classic style 14.1.. the way Mosconi and Crane played it is about taking equipment out of the equation and as such shows you who the better player is..they put up huge runs on unlevel tables with thick nappy cloth and clay balls

conversely 1 pocket is about banks, and kicks,,, spinning off the rail
but no 2 tables are alike.. which means the one who knows the table has a huge advantage.. and as 1 hole is a big gambling game there is no such thing as a neutral table most of the time.. they guy from out of town has to play uphill.. add the fact that the game is almost never played straight up begging for a spot is just lazy gambler mentality..you never really know who the better player was that day

the game is not the test of skill that perhaps it could be if equipment were standardized and the players were trying to win as opposed to just winning money..
 
softshot said:
classic style 14.1.. the way Mosconi and Crane played it is about taking equipment out of the equation and as such shows you who the better player is..they put up huge runs on unlevel tables with thick nappy cloth and clay balls

conversely 1 pocket is about banks, and kicks,,, spinning off the rail
but no 2 tables are alike.. which means the one who knows the table has a huge advantage.. and as 1 hole is a big gambling game there is no such thing as a neutral table most of the time.. they guy from out of town has to play uphill.. add the fact that the game is almost never played straight up begging for a spot is just lazy gambler mentality..you never really know who the better player was that day

the game is not the test of skill that perhaps it could be if equipment were standardized and the players were trying to win as opposed to just winning money..
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I don't like this reasoning at all, but I agree with the conclusion. You're overthinking because you should always consider the games at their purest level. Equipment shouldn't be a factor...period. Ie, is the skillset to play 1P better than the skillset needed to play 14.1,,,,on a level playing field.

I think 14.1 is a better game but not for your reasons.
 
I enjoy both straight pool and 1 pocket. I feel there is more to either of those games than rotation.

1 pocket requires not only knowledge but patience. That is often my downfall. At some point I just get tired of bunting and go in when I really shouldn't. :)
 
3andstop said:
I enjoy both straight pool and 1 pocket. I feel there is more to either of those games than rotation.

1 pocket requires not only knowledge but patience. That is often my downfall. At some point I just get tired of bunting and go in when I really shouldn't. :)
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I have to agree because these games require multiple choice thinking. In the rotation games the game tells you how to play. Who ever shoots the straightest and plays the best position wins. The other games require a ton of experience and that's why the top pros all say to learn straight pool first. I think that's because of all the different shots that come up in the game, not to mention you choose your own pattern. When you learn how to play 14.1 really well the other games come easier. When you see a 9 ball player first start to learn straight pool, they are always shooting tough shots and running out the wrong way and making the game look very difficult. All games are hard to play at the highest level though, and that is why I have so much respect for the game and the top players..
 
softshot said:
theoretically 1 hole should be the truest test of skill...

but in reality it's 14.1..

and the reason is quite simple.. 1 hole is FAR more equipment dependent..which is exactly why the gamblers like it..it adds random chance to the equation....
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It's obvious that you love 14.1 and don't know much about 1 pocket if that's your assessment.
 
DrOnePocket said:
It's obvious that you love 14.1 and don't know much about 1 pocket if that's your assessment.
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Whereas the dude named "DrOnePocket" is coming at it from a totally neutral perspective and doesn't love one more than the other!
 
I like straight pool, it's fun, challenging, and one of the few games you can play against yourself. I use it to get in stroke and to practice my pre shot routine. However saying it requires the overall skills of One pocket is laughable at best. The kicking, banking, patterns, and safety play needed to play good one pocket require much more skill and knowledge. It is a true test of all the skills in pocket billiards except 1. the jump shot, which IMO cheapens the game anyway
 
Johnnyt said:
Since so many top pros that never or hardly ever played these games have won or did very well in tournaments and action in the last few years, do you think 14.1 and 1-hole players are making it sound so much harder than it really is? Johnnyt
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No I don't. I think it really has to do with 14.1 and One Hole being games that rely more on knowledge and imagination. Those things are not so easily lost due to lack of play like stroke or aim is. The top players have the knowledge and the pool minds to play any game well whether they actually play it often or not.
 
All the games present their own challenges. In 9 ball and 10 ball, you better know how to get shape and be a straight shooter. In 8 ball, there is a lot of pressure to runout. It is very difficult to play effective safeties in 8 ball. In 1 pocket, if you hang a ball at least you still have a chance to win, which isn't always the case in other games
 
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I dont play 14.1 but to me it is a game that does not have an ending..........until you miss.

I like 1P over the rotation games simply because it requires a lot of thought and planning. :wink: Like a chess game.

John
 
Let me change the question slightly

First, let me say this is a great thread. I am really enjoying the debate. Let me pose another question. Is practicing 9 ball the best game to practice to get stronger in 9 ball? The Filipino players played rotation and the european women played snooker. If you were to walk away from 9 ball for a year and played a different game would that have made you a better 9 ball player than if you only played 9 ball?
 
Earl ran the 408 run back many years ago in Greensboro--some nuts came into the room while it was happening and threw him off--might have been even higher
 
Another factor, as I see it, is that the concentration, focus, or intensity level is different for the 3 disciplines. Playing one-pocket the game can last anywhere from, say, 15 minutes to an hour for example. Your concentration should be there for the entire game. In the game of 14.1 you may have to wait while your opponent runs 30, 40, 50 plus balls. When and if you get back to the table your focus level pretty much has to click in right then and there or you could be sitting again and possibly game over. In the rotation games (9 and 10 ball) you are playing game by game and it could be determined by the format being played; winner, loser, or alternating breaks. In this case your concentration could be determined by the breaking format.

This is another take of how I look the differences between the games on top of what has been discussed so far. JMHO

Gerry S.
 
prewarhero said:
If you were to walk away from 9 ball for a year and played a different game would that have made you a better 9 ball player than if you only played 9 ball?
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that's doubtful. I see no other game (I am a strong believer 14.1 is a great way to get more skilled in general, so it suits every game) that would require so many insane cuts, 3-railers, too much spin, etc. Other than 3-cushion maybe ;) Look at how good Blomdahl in 9-Ball is! Actually, every proficient 3-cushion player can drive the rock so good that they are godd 9-Ball players too!
 
bflgvs said:
Another factor, as I see it, is that the concentration, focus, or intensity level is different for the 3 disciplines. Playing one-pocket the game can last anywhere from, say, 15 minutes to an hour for example. Your concentration should be there for the entire game. In the game of 14.1 you may have to wait while your opponent runs 30, 40, 50 plus balls. When and if you get back to the table your focus level pretty much has to click in right then and there or you could be sitting again and possibly game over. In the rotation games (9 and 10 ball) you are playing game by game and it could be determined by the format being played; winner, loser, or alternating breaks. In this case your concentration could be determined by the breaking format.

This is another take of how I look the differences between the games on top of what has been discussed so far. JMHO

Gerry S.
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The weekend before last, I had gone with a friend to the pool hall and messed around with a little 14.1. I hadn't played it before, plan on joining up for the next league season and would like to see what kind of high run I can get.

I've played banks by myself for hours, 8 and 9 for who knows how many hours, a little 1P for a handful of hours at a time, but 14.1 was just mentally exhausting. Every single shot seemed to require more focus than I was accustomed to. You can do 2-way shots in just about every other game. In 14.1, every ball is available for any pocket, so there's no protecting yourself. A rattled ball can turn into somebody else's run. There was no letting up and small mistakes left me beating myself up inside. Perhaps that will change once I get over the hump and get into the game. (Edit: Maybe I'll just get better at beating myself up!)
 
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prewarhero said:
First, let me say this is a great thread. I am really enjoying the debate. Let me pose another question. Is practicing 9 ball the best game to practice to get stronger in 9 ball? The Filipino players played rotation and the european women played snooker. If you were to walk away from 9 ball for a year and played a different game would that have made you a better 9 ball player than if you only played 9 ball?
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I think a lot of nine ball at the high levels is mastering the break... the soft break if it's allowed, pattern racking if it's allowed... and if they're strict and you must break from the box, or rack the 9 on the spot, how do you tweak the break to keep making your wing ball? I don't think you can master that part of the game playing anything else.

To master actually running balls in order... I guess 10b and rotation are the obvious choices. Another game that seems to occasionally require shooting a ball and then getting position on something far away (through traffic) is cribbage. But I doubt you'd need other essential skills like kicking, jumping, etc. in that game.
 
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