Got Cheated In Olathe

Well,,that settles it. When in doubt the call goes to the shooter,,,guess there was no doubt.

I'm thinking someone wishes they never started this thread.

Up 7-0 and gets pissy. LMAO Yep,,I think it's drinking problem not referee problem. There's allot of courage in one can. Causes blindness sometimes too.

But I would give the guy a break when it comes down to it. We all can do some dumb things. It happens!!!!
 
joey called evelyn to the table, she asked joey where he thought the 5 ball was, he said he didnt know. i explained to evelyn where i thought the balls were,she said there is a 6 inch rule and i said the 5 ball rolled about a foot and it did.the cue ball came to rest not even far enough to get to the area where the 5 ball passed,that is why i asked her to ask the croud. as mark patrick if someone was recording this that could have cleared this up.

for those of you who think i have a drinking problem, you are wrong. i have been managing a sports bar in missouri for the last 2 and a half months,working 6 ten hour days. this was a vacation for me. friday night in olathe i played a race to 15 win by 2 against a very good player for 1k,i won 20 to 18. i had a few beers, he wanted to play another set and i told him i wanted to get a good nights sleep for the tournament, but i would gladly post the money right then, and we could saturday when it didnt conflict with our matches. does that sound like a drunk.


joey told evelyn he thought the ball was within the 6 inches, and i told her that it was about a foot, that is the truth as i recall. i didnt start drinking till after the point. one last time i apoligize to my sponsor and the fans, but i will continue to defend myself.

sincerly,

GARY LUTMAN

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Were you drunk at the time? Only reason I ask is maybe Evelyn is not very tolerant towards people who are drunk..

joey called evelyn to the table, she asked joey where he thought the 5 ball was, he said he didnt know. i explained to evelyn where i thought the balls were,she said there is a 6 inch rule and i said the 5 ball rolled about a foot and GARY LUTMAN

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no i got up at 11.30 am had breakfast, got to shooters about 12.30 pm. match started at 1.15 pm. to tough to beat joey while drinking, know what i mean. my word against his, i lost.

GL
 
Congrats to Skyler!!

It is nice to see an apology from Gary on here. Clearly he is still mad at Evelyn but it looks like he understands his actions have made some people unhappy and he is sorry about that.

Early on in this post it says that I stuck up for him and walked out in protest. I would like to clarify that. I was on down at the other end of the room during the late night tirade during his second match. It disgusted me to see what he did but I wasn't surprised either. I had been hearing about it all day and I knew how mad he was. I suggested to him that the best thing he can do is just go back and play good. I've known Gary for a long time - long enough to know that he doesn't listen to anyone so I knew I was wasting my breath. Sometimes his competitiveness cannot be controlled.

Following the tirade, after he went outside, most people around Evelyn's desk, including Evelyn and Danny, were smiling and laughing about it, which, looking back, is completely normal and to be expected. After all, that's what we do when Earl has his meltdowns.

I had been drinking with Gary to show my support for his situation since talking to him wouldn't work and I did agree that it was a bad call as it was explained to me. As a bar and poolroom owner and pool promoter myself, something inside of me (tequila) decided I didn't like the situation and wanted to do something about it. When I have a heated disagreement in my bar, it is my policy that no one says another word about it, we don't pick sides, we just drop it, period. That would have been awesome in this case.

I went down to Evelyn's desk and announced that I have one statement to say: "You shouldn't be down here smiling because these events were all set in motion because of a bad call that you made and that you never should have given him ball in hand when you didn't see the shot."

They didn't let me get out quite that fast, trying to defend their position, but almost immediately afterwards, trying to stick to my one statement plan and get to the 2nd issue that was bothering me. I went outside and tried to help Dan Tull explain to Gary that he was completely out of line and he needs to get over it, which led to Gary wanting to fight me.

So you see, I did stick up for Gary as far as the call goes, but I in no way supported him in his behavior. And I also stuck up for Danny and Evelyn, trying to convince Gary that she made a bad call, nothing personal, not trying to cheat him, and he needs to get over it.

Evelyn and Danny Dysart are among the best tournament directors in the business and I have always enjoyed them and their tournaments. We are all good. I do not believe for a second that Evelyn tried to cheat Gary. I think she made a judgement call and made a mistake in this case, but I still respect her. And I apologize for my "statement", which led to some other statements that weren't premeditated. They didn't deserve that. I have made mistakes too, we all do.

As for Gary and I, I too am embarrassed by his actions. I tried to let him know what the general consensus of everyone in the poolroom was as he was telling me he was going to post his story online. He said he would get thousands of hits, and he did. I knew this was going to further his embarrassment and I wasn't even aware of his punctuation!

Gary always makes a tournament more exciting when he is in it. But this time it was for all the wrong reasons. I hope it all passes and we learn something from it and move on.

By the way, in case someone asked you who won the tournament where Evelyn made a bad call and Gary went crazy, it was Skylar Woodward, so congrats to him!
 
Can't you read?! :grin:

Lenny, Bite me! There are a billizion long winded posts here. I could not remember when he said he started drinking. My point is most of the time people who are belligerently intoxicated are not taken very seriously unless they are fighting, yelling and carrying on. And that usually makes it worse for them.

I believe Whitey Walker's assessment more than anyone's in the thread..
 
OK, well the fact that you were not drinking yet bodes well for you early on. The drinking part didn't happen till much later. So there are two phases to this story.

no i got up at 11.30 am had breakfast, got to shooters about 12.30 pm. match started at 1.15 pm. to tough to beat joey while drinking, know what i mean. my word against his, i lost.

GL
 
No one is commenting on the fact that the OP may have contradicted himself when describing the layout and what happened.

Hypothetically the OP may have pointed to where the Five was then being drunk, forgot where he said and then later explained the path the cue ball travelled and it may have been described as a foul.

Then when the TD points out that the drunk had said earlier that you claimed it was here, the drunk says I meant it was over here.

The TD might conclude that due to alcohol the judgement of the shooter can't be trusted and since hd described it himself as a foul then a foul is ruled.

I'm not saying that is exactly what happened but I'm not as quick as most to say she was wrong.

I'd love for her to chime in.

Really nasty, disrespectful, and mean-spirited. Totally unnecessary.

J
 
Accidentally touching an object ball should be a foul, PERIOD.

Gary and Joey call me to the table. Gary is shooting, I asked what happened, he said I moved the 5 ball when I shot. I said, okay where was the 5 sitting, he points to an area on the table, I look at Joey and ask if that is close, he says yes. BOTH PLAYERS AGREE, that is where the 5 ball was sitting. I asked Gary what happened, he explained the shot and YES the cue ball could have come in contact with the 5 ball. That is a foul.
Gary then starts to argue and says ask the crowd, why would I ask the crowd when both players are at the table and have already agreed that is where the ball sitting. Gary continues to argue saying it might have been in another area, after he was the one that showed me where it was in the first place. I told him he needed to calm down and continue the match.

Approximately 2 hours later and after a couple of trips to the bracket board complaining to me how he was cheated and complaining to anyone in the building about this decision, I took Gary outside, away from everyone (I did not want to embarass him or put him on TV). I told him I had heard all I wanted to hear about this, he needed to calm down and just play the game. He could not let it go, I then placed him on warning.

Approximately 10 hours later and several trips to the bar, Gary is playing his match on the elimination side. He stops when he up 7-0. He starts toward the bracket board, stops about 20 feet from me (still in the playing area) and starts yelling and screaming obsenities at me. I told him to settle down and finish his match. He would not stop. He left me no option I had to forfeit him out of the tournament.

Gary continued on, it took 45 minutes to get him out of the playing area, disrupting the tournament.

Gary not only disrespected himself, he showed disrespect to a roomowner that has added $5000 to this tournament, the other players in the tournament and the spectators.

Drunk or sober, this is totally unacceptable behavior.

Evelyn Dysart

It sounds like Gary defined the outcome of the call by his ill-chosen words. I say ill-chosen words because I know he believes in his heart that there was no way that the cue ball could have come in contact with the object ball. I wasn't there but for someone who has a reputation for not being a jerk to be so vocal, you know that is what he has to believe (even if he is wrong).

I would like to know what is the official ruling in these cases.

If the object ball was sitting, say HERE and the object ball was ACCIDENTALLY moved to say HERE, how far from where the accidentally moved object ball came to rest is the cue ball in jeopardy of coming in contact with the object ball? I realize that if the cue ball passes in the path of where the object ball traveled that, that is a foul. The part that I am not sure of is just how far away from where the accidentally moved object ball came to rest, do you measure.

Is the measurement estimated from the base of the ball (center of the resting object ball) or from the edge of the object ball?

If so, what is that number?

I'm really just trying to learn.
 
Me too.

That's kinda how I feel about this situation too. Joey admitted he didn't know where the ball was to start. Gary said it did NOT cross the path. Call goes to the shooter. Joey shoots from where the ball lays, and has the option to move the moved ball back to original position.



The few times I have seen Gary in action, tournament or gambling, I have never seen him get into it with anyone (win or lose). So there must have been some truth in his vent, and if so he got screwed. And, I don't believe he was calling Joey a cheater, he was saying he got screwed by Evelyn because of her knowing Joey for many years and his many friends and backers in Olathe.

I have been to a couple events run by Evelyn and she is very fair from what I've seen and I like her. But if what Gary said is true, she was wrong. Joey even said he wasn't sure where the balls were, there should have been no call and Joey shoots from there.

Yes, the post was hard to read, but the content was very clear once you get through it. I for one am sorry it happened, I like all concerned.

Dave
 
Life is to short to fade one call on a pool table and get banned from events and pool tourneys you love to attend. Whether the call was right or not, Evelyn had to make a call and she is human. If you look at the big scheme of things this call is not big enough to change anybody's life for better or worse.

I appreciate Gary's competitive nature and his play. I also think he has a good personality and always makes me laugh when I'm around him. This is all unfortunate and hope Gary can solve his matters with all parties involved.

I don't know Gary personally but my advice to Gary would be to go private with these people and apologize to them. I think all involved are good people and that means there is a chance for this to be put behind you and move on.
 
I would like to make some comments on this situation from a couple different angles.

The early morning spectacle you put on was one of the worst things I have witnessed in my life. Earl on his worst day gets the 7 from you saturday night. I have never been more embarrassed.

I wasn't there but this is a BOLD statement. Until now I didn't think anyone could give Earl the 7ball in bad behavior.

Gary, I agree with the folks who think you got a bad call. She didn't see the shot and should not have made that call. I also agree that the bad call does not justify any and all behavior afterwards. Life is much easier when we are hard on ourselves but easy on others.

If I were your sponsor we would be having some real conversation about what is expected. I would bet my life that you know this stuff, but we would talk anyway.

I also agree with you about making 5 balls in a row. The guys who want to make this into a Grammar lession could likely get the 5 and the break from the rest. Pointing this out, However, is still trying to get flies with vinegar.

IDK if you remember me or not, But we have played several times in tourneys and gambled twice or 3 times if you count a ring game in Springfeild several years ago. I don't know why I am including this paragraph unless I somehow agree with you that running balls adds to credibility. It's not the balls that matter, but its hard to relate if you've never tried to earn a living playing a game on the road.

Good luck beating the players today, And the deamons, Tom Peck
 
OR...possibly exactly what someone who acts like a drunk freak show that takes 45 minutes to remove from a building deserves to be called.

Really, for what purpose? And, who exactly appointed you executioner?

Just felt like piling on?

Again, the name calling served no purpose other than possibly to hurt someone's feelings.

J
 
Enough of the conjecture! Gary obviously believes without a doubt that he is in the right. Evelyn feels she is too and Joey doesn't care. Most of the rest of us don't 'know' jack re: the specific case.

What I want to know about, Gary, is the story behind the time at the Carom Room when you got screwed out of the $40k break and run...what's up with that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS7piRmeUxY
 
Really, for what purpose? And, who exactly appointed you executioner?

Just felt like piling on?

Again, the name calling served no purpose other than possibly to hurt someone's feelings.

J

If you honestly think that being called, "a drunk" after all he did is an execution then I would say that is the lightest sentence he ever could have gotten.

He and others need to know that you can't do this and then just say sorry and not suffer any consequences. He should be banned from that tournament for sure. The part where it got physical and grown men had to physically intervene is unacceptable. Not to mention the 45 minute spectacle, cursing at a woman etc.
 
If you honestly think that being called, "a drunk" after all he did is an execution then I would say that is the lightest sentence he ever could have gotten.

He and others need to know that you can't do this and then just say sorry and not suffer any consequences. He should be banned from that tournament for sure. The part where it got physical and grown men had to physically intervene is unacceptable. Not to mention the 45 minute spectacle, cursing at a woman et.c

I'm not disagreeing with you about his behavior, nor whether he should have gotten banned because of it. I agree. What I did/do/will disagree with is the unnecessary and pointless public name calling. It serves not useful purpose, other than to intentionally hurt someone's feelings, that's all.

If you feel differently about it, which apparently you do, then carry on.

J
 
I'm not disagreeing with you about his behavior, nor whether he should have gotten banned because of it. I agree. What I did/do/will disagree with is the unnecessary and pointless public name calling. It serves not useful purpose, other than to intentionally hurt someone's feelings, that's all.

If you feel differently about it, which apparently you do, then carry on.

J

Yeah, the age of being "PC" is coming to a close. Thank God! If we just continue to react in the "everyone makes mistakes" mode then people will just continue to act like drunk maniacs.

The useful purpose that calling someone out that acts like this serves is to set a standard in the hopes that other pool players don't continue to mar this beautiful sport. Hope you understand where I'm coming from now.
 
Yeah, the age of being "PC" is coming to a close. Thank God! If we just continue to react in the "everyone makes mistakes" mode then people will just continue to act like drunk maniacs.

The useful purpose that calling someone out that acts like this serves is to set a standard in the hopes that other pool players don't continue to mar this beautiful sport. Hope you understand where I'm coming from now.

I'm glad you feel this way cuz I'm calling you out!

Why do you have a 14year old with tripple d cups on your avitar?? LOL
 
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