Dear AZBilliards

[btown]

I can definitely understand why you would come to those assumptions but I will respectfully tell you that I'm actually the exact opposite of that

OK, i know the solution now.. you need some tequila :thumbup:

 

[tucson9ball]

Hey Abie10,

I’ve been in and out of the Arizona pool rooms since the early 80’s. Long story short, all the people in pool halls/bars, are just like everywhere else. There are very nice folks and then there are, what I will call “the less desirables”. I won’t mention any names. It’s never a good idea to shit where you eat.
So basically, you learn to develop a hard shell. Otherwise you will never get any sleep at night.
I played in the Falcon League in Tucson years ago, then I realized that the best players in town were not playing in leagues on bar tables. They played on 9ft. tables at the pool halls. So, I quit my league and started competing/gambling with all the guys at the pool halls. My game improved by leaps and bounds. This worked for me, I’m not saying it would work for everybody.
Anyhoo, I’ve probably played against the elite guys you are referring to. Some of them are nice guys, some are not. You just have to take the good with the bad. When I compete, it’s just me against the table layout, I try not to get too involved with the opponent in the other chair. I love the game/sport of pool and will probably play until I die. It just has a way of getting in your blood I suppose. The way the balls click then fall into the pocket, something magical about it to me :smile:
I guess what I’m trying to say is, just keep enjoying pool in your own way. If playing APA and having beers with friends is fun, keep doing it. Maybe competing with the big dogs left a bad taste in your mouth, then don’t do it. For some, being the best is what drives them, others just want to have fun, to each their own.
BTW, there are only a couple Pro players in the Phoenix area. So what you are referring to as elite, they are just big fish in a pretty big pond.

 

[abie10]

Love what I said or hate it, take me out of the equation and tell me that these concerns are not justified. Read through the posts here or listen in at your rooms or tournaments and tell me this doesn't happen.

truth is, I'm not near as bitter as I appear in this post. I have a lot of friends that are very high level players. But the treatment is there... The mocking... The ridicule is there.

I'm simply bringing attention to a problem and saying what most people wont say - whether its wrong or right. its so much fun to bash people, but turn it around and its a different story.

Fact is, we have to figure out a way to bridge the gap between you and me... Otherwise your "sport" will get nowhere

 

[rayjay]

You never know just how you look until you get your picture took.

 

[Banks]

I read it, I understand you, and I disagree.

I'm sure you're and ok guy and you just needed to vent some. Everybody does. You just choose a very poor and inappropriate way to do it imo.

The way I see it you got 2 choices. Get some thicker skin and continue to play the game. Or quit.

But I know one thing for sure, if you continue to let these people get under your skin your game will continue to suffer. Playing angry is a waste of time and blaming everyone else for your problems isn't going to get you anywhere, even if you are right.

Good luck to you.

You have no problem with calling this guy a ***** for calling people out, but do you do the same with people that go around knocking people that play league? There's a very small group that does, but I don't recall you being one of them(but I could very well be wrong).

Let me recap what I'm hearing: People that talk crap about leaguers = okay. People that have a problem with them doing it = not okay.

If that's the case, then I'd definitely say a good old GFY is in order. I'd expect you not to cry or whine about that if you're thick-skinned.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I have seen both sides of the coin, you have the really good players who are a bit overconfident so to say and some just plain cocky and arrogant but some of those guys cant pay their bills or take care of responsibilities. They think they are grown men but a man is much more than someone over 25, you see these man-child people in every room, never going to grow up. You then have the nice guys who love pool and just playing it whether they can run a rack or not. I try to treat everyone nice regardless of whether they can run a rack or not based on who they are as a person. I started recently to look at pool different, not in a good way, I was not having fun like I used to and thought back to how it was so much fun and why I got involved in the first place.

So now I try not to get caught up in the BS drama that pool rooms have and just enjoy the game. I will practice to improve my game, a little less gambling and the crap that goes with it and just blaze my own path. Just keep a positive attitude and do not let others bring you down. I try and play with the top guys in Arizona and I think they did not take me seriously before and underestimated me but when you start winning/beating them they give you some respect and take you a little more seriously. I respect the good players who encourage the beginners or weaker players to get better, helping them out. I also respect those who work a 9-5 and play great in tournaments, not easy staying up to 2am playing hard all night and getting up for work in the morning.

 

[Cdryden]

You have no problem with calling this guy a ***** for calling people out, but do you do the same with people that go around knocking people that play league? There's a very small group that does, but I don't recall you being one of them(but I could very well be wrong).

Let me recap what I'm hearing: People that talk crap about leaguers = okay. People that have a problem with them doing it = not okay.

If that's the case, then I'd definitely say a good old GFY is in order. I'd expect you not to cry or whine about that if you're thick-skinned.

1st The ONLY thing I called him was a hypocrite so I dont have a clue what you are talking about. (please correct me if I am wrong)

And I don't get what you are saying here---> "but do you do the same with people that go around knocking people that play league? There's a very small group that does, but I don't recall you being one of them(but I could very well be wrong).

And as for this ---> "Let me recap what I'm hearing: People that talk crap about leaguers = okay. People that have a problem with them doing it = not okay." My response is that anyone who lumps everyone into 1 category is asking for trouble. If you have a specific problem with a single person deal with it on that level, don't say "everyone is picking on me" be specific.

And just for the record, he came here and started this post I didn't go looking to single him out. And I don't give a crap what you expect me to do, if you don't like what I have had to say so be it. He came here with a crappy attitude and I think what he wrote was way out of line. This guy wants respect from the people he told to go F*&% themselves, and has the balls to talk about entitlement.

 

[sfleinen]

you are choosing to polarize this as a shot at azbilliards... Which is my fault because of the bad choice of a post title. This was a shot at the pool community in general. Azbilliards isa great resource and tool that I enjoy and will always enjoy...

My apologies to those who thought this was a shot at azbilliards

I agree with the renaming of this thread. It should be called the "GFY" thread.


-Sean <-- wouldn't be surprised if this happened, in the same vein as e.g. we now have the infamous "false package delivery truck" thread

 

[Cory in DC]

APA players whine and think they need a handicap to play anybody. Even if they can run a few racks, they still whine and need a spot. They really crack a smile and grin from ear to ear when they're presented with a patch for their prestigous pool jacket. OK, here is a patch for making a hanger when you had ball in hand.
They bring shot clocks with them for amature night, crying towels, jumbo containers of baby powder and car wax to buff up their new Cuetec.
They look for the guy that can't make even 1 ball and ask him if he'd like to play for $20
They prefer music at full volume and like to rest their beer on the cloth of the best table. Many of the APA players are experts at cue twirling too. Yes, a masterful skill indeed. I give them credit for taking showers and putting on clean clothes. The dart league is unlike the APA players and have many members that haven't bathed in weeks.
It's no secret how a K9 dog could track one when you realize just how ripe they really are.
Well, if playing top players is a fearful thing for you, maybe it's best you stay on the porch if you can't run with the big dogs.

I think this is the exact attitude the original poster was describing. In a world where only big dogs play, pool halls will be bankrupt and it will be real hard for little dogs to become big dogs, or just to shoot around and have fun. That would suck for the big dogs too.

And seriously, here we have an eager lobster just looking to have a nice time while donating to the winner's pool. Every local champion or even B player should welcome that, but many don't.

Also, you can't seriously believe that needing handicaps is confined to APA players? I routinely see shortstops haggling over spots and failing to come to an agreement. They don't just pony up to bet on even sets. And I also see shortstops and better trying to get people who can't run three balls into a game (I know, I was that guy who couldn't make three balls once upon a time). So that's also not confined to APA or league.

In general, the behaviors the original poster described are pretty common (definitely not universal). I've seen it everywhere I've been -- TX, the Midwest, and the east coast.

Maybe he hit a few people a little too close to home?

Cory

 

[buster45]

in england my son won the uk juniors when he was 14, part of his prize was a free entry to pro comps all over the country. he played Appleton ,Hundal ,Majid, Gray,Peach, Melling,Drago plus other world class players and spent a year getting his arse kicked lol, I cant remember any of them treating him with anything but respect and encouragment , they were instrumental into making him into the player he is now,
:smile:

 

[grindz]

To the OP

Everything is life is about your own personal paradigm... it's the easiest
and the most difficult thing to change... The book "The law of attraction"
is a really good read, and has bearing on this thread. To the OP, it's really short and worth the time spent.

On pool in general. I don't know if I've met you or not but if Jason says you're a nice guy I believe him. I haven't seen what you apparently see. Maybe you're better at pool than me, maybe not, but when I go to a tournament (it's been quite a while) I'm not looking for a social affair... I am only looking to win... some will try to win with intimidation in many forms which sounds like a lot of what you are posting about. Competition is not for everyone and the place where pool stops being fun, and/or starts being fun is different for everyone. I'm glad you found your spot, and can enjoy it. Good luck.

To everyone else... pool is cool in PHX!

td

 

[Spimp13]

Does anyone know a synonym acronym for GFYS? I would like to use a different one this weekend to spice things up...and no, GFYM is not an acceptable answer. Thanks in advance.

 

[upindaklub]

Playing pool at the upper levels, even mid levels like a B player IS like work. But the fun to me is to play as perfectly as I can. I've never missed a shot and/or lost a match and went back to someplace with worse players and rules and equipment. I've seen people do that, even some so-called serious players. Room A I played in had large pockets, not a lot of good players, I learned to play there. Then me and a friend found out about Room B in Brighton, MA, tight pockets, great shape tables, tons of top players. We went there, and continued to go there, and we got better. The rest of the players in Room A went to the second room once, found out they could not make half the shots that the giant pockets took in their home room, saw players that would beat their skulls in without breaking a sweat and said "this is not for me" and never came back.

It's OK to take "whatever" you get given in the APA and bar tables and casual players, but not for everyone. To be top at anything, even in a local small fish pond, you need to have an attitude of "I'm good, I'm better than you, you better watch out when you tangle with me" or you just end up puking all over yourself if you have a 8 foot shot to make in a hill hill match for 1st place.

If I take a corner in my Toyota, I want it to be the best damn efficient corner every time even if I'm not in the Indy 500, if I work on a computer, I want to make sure that thing is running 10 times better than when I touched it even if I fix a dozen other things the owner did not even know were wrong. Same thing with most if not all of the top pool players, if they miss, they practice till they don't, or at least as best as they could. If they take a shot, they want it to be the best damn shot of that type ever hit on the planet. But some people are not like that, pool or other things are just pastimes. I don't think AZ ruined pool for you, you probably never really wanted to get serious about it to begin with, maybe get better at it, find out about better equipment, but not put in the effort do reach a higher level.

I like where your heads at. As a former long time Boston area guy which room do you play at in Brighton? Gonna be back in the Hub in October and would like to visit

 

[Straightpool_99]

EDIT: Dear AZBilliards was admittedly a bad title for this post. As a resource, AZBilliards is amazing and I have nothing but good things to say. This post was meant to be directed to the pool community as a whole and not AZBilliards directly. My mistake

Thank you for ruining pool for me. Obviously this isn't meant for everyone in the community, but it is meant for a vast majority of you.

I started playing pool about 3 years ago. Joined an APA league and jumped in full force. It was fun. I met new people, I learned new things. I went out each week, had a couple beers and had some real fun.

But then, something weird happened. I found this site. It had a wealth of info...results, interviews...and then I found the forums. At first I was amazed...so many people discussing every single aspect of pool...from equipment to aiming to why pool isn't growing. I used to visit the site every day...trying to soak of info and tips and follow my favorite players.

I didn't know it then, but that was the downfall of pool for me. I started wanting to play better players...play on better equipment. At first it was awesome...but quickly things changed.

I started having "situations" with higher ranked players. They started telling me that I shouldn't be playing with them because I haven't "earned my time." Discouraging to say the least.

I kept reading the forums...reading the bashing of the league that I started in and still play in...the APA. I read so much that I, myself, started disliking the APA and all that they stand for. So I decided to leave it and play in the BCA...a local league here that was amongst the best ones in the area. I played...and I lost...a lot, but I didn't let that hold me back. I kept playing...I kept playing in higher ranked tournaments...I got slowly better.

The one thing I picked up from my time playing with the higher ranked players is the negativity. Nothing is ever right for them. They get mad cause lower ranked players get weight against them. They get mad cause lower ranked players pay lower entry fee's. They get mad because bars don't add money to their tournaments, or don't add enough money. In a word, entitlement.

I grew frustrated with the whole pool scene...started hating it. I didn't quit, but I didn't play very much at all. Then I realized that it all stopped being fun. So I went back to where pool was fun...and went back to playing in the APA and my friends...all of the sudden, I loved pool again.

There is a class system in pool. The APA is the lower class...the "99%" if you will. We are looked down upon because we play on inferior equipment with inferior rules for league operators who are in it for the money. Beer drinkers that play in bars with loud music and rowdy people. We play with handicaps because we aren't good enough for the "real" pool world. Meanwhile, the 1% are out there...playing on their diamond tables with their added money tournaments while they sip ice water and not support the rooms that add this money. It's entitlement at it's best.

"Pool players" feel like room and bar owners owe them the world. The nicest equipment with the nicest cloth. Massive amounts of added money and get rid of all the music and karaoke and people that make the room the money so they can play in quiet. Basically trying to get rid of players like me.

Please don't tell me or players like me that this isn't happening. I've experience this first hand here in Phoenix. I've been ridiculed for playing in the APA. I've been told by A players here in Phoenix that I shouldn't be playing them because I haven't earned my time like they have. Big time players like Scott Frost mocked me because they had to play me in a 9 ball tournament and made fun of me because "I had the gall to ask him to split quarters," for a tournament match.

Hell, I've even been turned away from a tournament because I'm not good enough. And when I do get to play, it's very uncomfortable. The higher rated players make me feel like it's a priviledge to play them. I shouldn't feel this way...but that's what you do.

In a nutshell, get over yourself. You can have your game...because that's all it is...a game. Or have you forgotten that? I will stick with the league that is ruining pool...even though it brings more and more people into it each year. I will stick with the inferior equipment and inferior rules and the loud music and beer drinking because I love where I play and want to support them as much as I can.

I want to go back to a place where the only complaining I hear about is the guys complaining that the wife barely let them come out to play tonight, not some entitled douche bags discussing the ins and outs of their $30 chalk or how this room sucks cause it has Valley's.

GFY...Yes I'm bitter, you ruined the game for me and a lot of others out there, but I'm going back to where it's fun...and will continue to teach my kids my horrible stroke and pool knowledge so they can have fun with this wonderful game. But I will never teach them to become a "pool player" because I don't really wish that on anyone anymore.

tl;dr - Pool used to be fun, I got serious like everyone here said I should and hated it. I'm going back to the APA.

Even though I am from a different country and have never played in the APA, I can really relate to the way you feel. I recently started playing again after a long break and at present I am at best a low B player, trying to work my game up to where it was. Sometimes it is fun to play better players to get an idea of how much progress I have made, and this is where the trouble starts, they won't play me at all. And quite often I'm rudely turned down, even ridiculed. This doesn't really bother me, but is quite strange. Personally I don't think the game is so different when playing weaker players, infact I quite like giving myself a huge, secret handicap when I do like giving him 5 games ahead to 10 in my mind.

It is strange that these experiences have only occurred when i play pool. If for instance I ask a great 3-cushion player or even a snooker player for a game, which I have done many times, quite often they are more than happy to play and if they won't play they just say no. I have never been ridiculed by those people, ever. Players of these games also seem to want to help me improve (probably because I suck so much, lol). Bear in mind that these are players who know that I am completely helpless in those games. If I where to ask a player only slightly better than my self for a game of pool, often he will respond in a way that indicates that I insulted him by asking, and forget about getting any pointers. I really feel that there is a cultural difference between the game of pool and especially 3-cushion billiards. I don't know if this is due to the kind of people these games tend to attract or some other reason.

Personally I still take pool seriously and try to improve, but when I want to have fun and socialize with people I dont know, I prefer lesser skilled players in bars or playing different games like 3-cushion or snooker

 

[andyk]

Abie10,

Don't let the negativity of some players ruin the game for you! I agree that there are some uncool people in the pool world... those are the ones not to associate with. There are also a lot of good players that would gladly help with our games. I live in Tucson and have been playing for about ten years... the people I learned the most from were 9-10 + speed players who played for hours without gambling just because they enjoyed the game and could see that I liked it.

I'm not familiar with your practice routine, but if you show a genuine interest in the game, sit and watch better players at your favorite pool hall, and practice there a lot, other players will notice and eventually someone should be willing to share some pointers or shoot with you a bit.

If you wanna play and have a few beers once a week in league, that is great! I play in a couple leagues and they are fun. If you want to take it a step further and practice hard and play in tournaments, then do that too, regardless of what other people say and do. Honestly, learning to stay positive and deal effectively with other players' complaining, bad attitudes, or shark techniques is part of the mental side of pool and can make you a better player. So if you enjoy pool enough still to want to get better and take it seriously, then stick with it and just disregard all the crappy stuff.

 

[Banks]

1st The ONLY thing I called him was a hypocrite so I dont have a clue what you are talking about. (please correct me if I am wrong)

And I don't get what you are saying here---> "but do you do the same with people that go around knocking people that play league? There's a very small group that does, but I don't recall you being one of them(but I could very well be wrong).

And as for this ---> "Let me recap what I'm hearing: People that talk crap about leaguers = okay. People that have a problem with them doing it = not okay." My response is that anyone who lumps everyone into 1 category is asking for trouble. If you have a specific problem with a single person deal with it on that level, don't say "everyone is picking on me" be specific.

And just for the record, he came here and started this post I didn't go looking to single him out. And I don't give a crap what you expect me to do, if you don't like what I have had to say so be it. He came here with a crappy attitude and I think what he wrote was way out of line. This guy wants respect from the people he told to go F*&% themselves, and has the balls to talk about entitlement.

He was speaking to a specific part of AZB and I understood that. Perhaps we did not recognize where the different parties were coming from. There are quite a few people on AZB that are constant league bashers, while very few have balls to say anything to the contrary. Or, worse yet, only have the nerve to say something to those that have a problem with the league bashers. Sometimes you have to stand up and tell people to GFT for them to understand. Maybe he should've posted a "I'm sick and tired and I'm not going to take it any more" thread? Screw it, like I said.. sometimes a good old-fashioned GFY is needed. To me, it's more akin to the idiots in Crapsville that complain about the crime, but do nothing about it.. now somebody's saying something and everybody's jumping all over his ass.

 

[Scaramouche]

I live in Rhode Island and there are a lot of Open/A players and even a few pro's that play in the poolroom where I play(Snookers). I have had the exact opposite experience. A lot of these players including the pros are always willing to help and answer questions when not in matches etc. And if they are not gambling they will even play and practice with me for free. Mind you I am a lowly C- level player and they don't care or laugh when I screw up. It sounds like you are making generalizations about pool players everywhere based on your experiences from your state/area only. I don't think it is fair to say all pro's are jerks because they are jerks in Phoenix. Mike Dechaine and Tom "Shorty" D' Alfonso are two regulars and pro's who play at Snookers and I would call them both friends with Shorty being a good friend. We met and became friends from playing/taking about pool. They don't care that I am a lowly C level player but do care about helping me improve my game. I guess I am glad I don't live in Phoenix because I can see how what you have experienced can be frustrating. Keep your head up and stay positive because you are right it is only a game and most of us will only be average players.

If you don't like a pool hall or a club, go elsewhere. I've joined clubs for the activity and departed because of the people. Where I live are lots of alternatives to try to find the right fit. Abie is in a large metropolitan area. He, too, has lots of alternatives. One wonders how many he has tried.

 

[Cdryden]

EDIT: Dear AZBilliards was admittedly a bad title for this post. As a resource, AZBilliards is amazing and I have nothing but good things to say. This post was meant to be directed to the pool community as a whole and not AZBilliards directly. My mistake

Thank you for ruining pool for me. Obviously this isn't meant for everyone in the community, but it is meant for a vast majority of you.

I started playing pool about 3 years ago. Joined an APA league and jumped in full force. It was fun. I met new people, I learned new things. I went out each week, had a couple beers and had some real fun.

But then, something weird happened. I found this site. It had a wealth of info...results, interviews...and then I found the forums. At first I was amazed...so many people discussing every single aspect of pool...from equipment to aiming to why pool isn't growing. I used to visit the site every day...trying to soak of info and tips and follow my favorite players.

I didn't know it then, but that was the downfall of pool for me. I started wanting to play better players...play on better equipment. At first it was awesome...but quickly things changed.

I started having "situations" with higher ranked players. They started telling me that I shouldn't be playing with them because I haven't "earned my time." Discouraging to say the least.

I kept reading the forums...reading the bashing of the league that I started in and still play in...the APA. I read so much that I, myself, started disliking the APA and all that they stand for. So I decided to leave it and play in the BCA...a local league here that was amongst the best ones in the area. I played...and I lost...a lot, but I didn't let that hold me back. I kept playing...I kept playing in higher ranked tournaments...I got slowly better.

The one thing I picked up from my time playing with the higher ranked players is the negativity. Nothing is ever right for them. They get mad cause lower ranked players get weight against them. They get mad cause lower ranked players pay lower entry fee's. They get mad because bars don't add money to their tournaments, or don't add enough money. In a word, entitlement.

I grew frustrated with the whole pool scene...started hating it. I didn't quit, but I didn't play very much at all. Then I realized that it all stopped being fun. So I went back to where pool was fun...and went back to playing in the APA and my friends...all of the sudden, I loved pool again.

There is a class system in pool. The APA is the lower class...the "99%" if you will. We are looked down upon because we play on inferior equipment with inferior rules for league operators who are in it for the money. Beer drinkers that play in bars with loud music and rowdy people. We play with handicaps because we aren't good enough for the "real" pool world. Meanwhile, the 1% are out there...playing on their diamond tables with their added money tournaments while they sip ice water and not support the rooms that add this money. It's entitlement at it's best.

"Pool players" feel like room and bar owners owe them the world. The nicest equipment with the nicest cloth. Massive amounts of added money and get rid of all the music and karaoke and people that make the room the money so they can play in quiet. Basically trying to get rid of players like me.

Please don't tell me or players like me that this isn't happening. I've experience this first hand here in Phoenix. I've been ridiculed for playing in the APA. I've been told by A players here in Phoenix that I shouldn't be playing them because I haven't earned my time like they have. Big time players like Scott Frost mocked me because they had to play me in a 9 ball tournament and made fun of me because "I had the gall to ask him to split quarters," for a tournament match.

Hell, I've even been turned away from a tournament because I'm not good enough. And when I do get to play, it's very uncomfortable. The higher rated players make me feel like it's a priviledge to play them. I shouldn't feel this way...but that's what you do.

In a nutshell, get over yourself. You can have your game...because that's all it is...a game. Or have you forgotten that? I will stick with the league that is ruining pool...even though it brings more and more people into it each year. I will stick with the inferior equipment and inferior rules and the loud music and beer drinking because I love where I play and want to support them as much as I can.

I want to go back to a place where the only complaining I hear about is the guys complaining that the wife barely let them come out to play tonight, not some entitled douche bags discussing the ins and outs of their $30 chalk or how this room sucks cause it has Valley's.

GFY...Yes I'm bitter, you ruined the game for me and a lot of others out there, but I'm going back to where it's fun...and will continue to teach my kids my horrible stroke and pool knowledge so they can have fun with this wonderful game. But I will never teach them to become a "pool player" because I don't really wish that on anyone anymore.

tl;dr - Pool used to be fun, I got serious like everyone here said I should and hated it. I'm going back to the APA.

He was speaking to a specific part of AZB and I understood that. Perhaps we did not recognize where the different parties were coming from. There are quite a few people on AZB that are constant league bashers, while very few have balls to say anything to the contrary. Or, worse yet, only have the nerve to say something to those that have a problem with the league bashers. Sometimes you have to stand up and tell people to GFT for them to understand. Maybe he should've posted a "I'm sick and tired and I'm not going to take it any more" thread? Screw it, like I said.. sometimes a good old-fashioned GFY is needed. To me, it's more akin to the idiots in Crapsville that complain about the crime, but do nothing about it.. now somebody's saying something and everybody's jumping all over his ass.

I get that, and I can sympathize. I do not feel that what he wrote spoke to a specific part of azbilliards of the pool community, he did a poor job of explaining himself.

If you look back through my posts in my time here you will see that on more than one occasion I have stood up for APA players, (even though I am not one myself). And I have came down on people who rag on folks that play APA and consider themselves holier than thou. So I take it personal when someone comes on here who hasn't contributed to this forum at all and makes a blanket statement about us as a group. And at no time did he make it clear that he was speaking to only those that bash the APA. The post was addressed to the entire community and that is exactly how I took it in the beginning.

 

[Banks]

I get that, and I can sympathize. I do not feel that what he wrote spoke to a specific part of azbilliards of the pool community, he did a poor job of explaining himself.

If you look back through my posts in my time here you will see that on more than one occasion I have stood up for APA players, (even though I am not one myself). And I have came down on people who rag on folks that play APA and consider themselves holier than thou. So I take it personal when someone comes on here who hasn't contributed to this forum at all and makes a blanket statement about us as a group. And at no time did he make it clear that he was speaking to only those that bash the APA. The post was addressed to the entire community and that is exactly how I took it in the beginning.

You could say my memory doesn't exactly pass quality standards, so I apologize that I questioned whether or not you had the same feelings towards the ones he was upset with as you did with him being upset. Misunderstandings have always caused problems throughout history I suppose.

AZB's been great, I've learned quite a bit about all aspects of the game and try to point people to here when I'm able to. It could just be a side-affect of the anonymity of the internet that allows people to constantly bash stuff, while others don't waste their time on responding, but as a community I disagree with the idea of silence in the face of wrongfulness as it sort of implies a feeling of acceptance.

 

[Banks]

Yes, sadly players with your mindset are taking over htis site as well. Soon there will be no trace of "real pool".

APA is a scourge on an otherwise beautiful game.

Being sub-par is not an achievement

How'd you do in Vegas with the APA? Let me guess.. you lost.

Yeah, quite an achievement.