Breaking Speed or Power
- Thread starter irock
- Start date
Breaking with "CONTROL" although not as popular as speed and power will serve you better in the long run. With that said if you can swing a heavier cue just as fast as a lighter cue you should see some benefit to your break. I believe the BCA Rules list a weight limit of 25oz on pool cues.
People who advocate one or the other have no idea what they are talking about. Speed *is* power. Think about it. Aside from any spin and/or elevation, the only quality the cueball can have when it reaches the rack is *speed*.
Assuming a dead square hit on the head ball, and a fixed elevation (meaning whether the cueball is on the cloth or in the air...on its way up or down), the only way to "hit the rack harder" is to generate more cue ball velocity (speed). Assuming your mechanics are perfect, and you can always strike the cueball exactly where intended with perfect timing, then generally the only way to get more velocity out of the cue ball is to make the cue stick move faster at impact. This would require more "power" from the human system that operates the cue (the breaker lol).
Power is the ability to do work in a period of time. Accelerating the cue is work. More power can produce more acceleration over the time the break stroke happens. This *could* result in more cue ball speed, but that assumes that the cue ball is struck in the center, at the right elevation, with peak velocity at impact (good timing), with a straight stroke, etc.
Thus velocity is the *result* of the application of power. Power is in the player. Velocity in the cue ball is what matters when it comes to hitting the rack harder.
Make sense?
(And by the way, this has little to do with a *good* and *effective* break. Hitting the head ball accurately with a good stroke will generally produce better results than glancing off the head ball at a million miles per hour...within reason. For 9 ball you can break great with a decent rack at about 16 mph and up...below that and you probably won't make as many balls due to late drops...In any case, most men can easily hit this speed)
KMRUNOUT
Assuming a dead square hit on the head ball, and a fixed elevation (meaning whether the cueball is on the cloth or in the air...on its way up or down), the only way to "hit the rack harder" is to generate more cue ball velocity (speed). Assuming your mechanics are perfect, and you can always strike the cueball exactly where intended with perfect timing, then generally the only way to get more velocity out of the cue ball is to make the cue stick move faster at impact. This would require more "power" from the human system that operates the cue (the breaker lol).
Power is the ability to do work in a period of time. Accelerating the cue is work. More power can produce more acceleration over the time the break stroke happens. This *could* result in more cue ball speed, but that assumes that the cue ball is struck in the center, at the right elevation, with peak velocity at impact (good timing), with a straight stroke, etc.
Thus velocity is the *result* of the application of power. Power is in the player. Velocity in the cue ball is what matters when it comes to hitting the rack harder.
Make sense?
(And by the way, this has little to do with a *good* and *effective* break. Hitting the head ball accurately with a good stroke will generally produce better results than glancing off the head ball at a million miles per hour...within reason. For 9 ball you can break great with a decent rack at about 16 mph and up...below that and you probably won't make as many balls due to late drops...In any case, most men can easily hit this speed)
KMRUNOUT
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Kerry...That may be true for some, but definitely not true for me. I can easily differentiate speed from power. Power is a tight grip on the cuestick, and using arm and shoulder muscles to drive the stick through the CB. Speed is using a loose grip, cue weight and timing to create an accurate and repeatable stroke (including the break). They are most definitely two different animals. Both work...one is, imo, easier to control and more dependable (also doesn't cause injuries like some break techniques can).
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
The physicist would say the CB has energy, but not power.
Energy (kinetic) is 1/2*m*v**2
Power is the rate of adding/removing energy from the CB, so power only exists for the milliseconds of the impacts (cue->CB and CB->HB).
But none of this really maters if the CB impacts somewhere you did not intend. Thus, precision beats speed 6.89 days per week.
Energy (kinetic) is 1/2*m*v**2
Power is the rate of adding/removing energy from the CB, so power only exists for the milliseconds of the impacts (cue->CB and CB->HB).
But none of this really maters if the CB impacts somewhere you did not intend. Thus, precision beats speed 6.89 days per week.
I think when you approach this subject that Break Speed and Break Power equate to the same thing and have little if anything to do with how heavy a break cue is.
The reason most of the Pro-players use light break cues is because of the speed it allows the player to achieve. The speed generated creates a harder impact which is where power comes into the equation. In addition a lighter cue also produces more action because the faster the cue ball is traveling the greater the impact.
From my limited experience a heavy cue will slow down the stroke due to the added weight and the extra weight will deaden the impact and produce less action than a lighter cue.
In the end a cue ball can only travel so fast based upon the distance from the head string to the head ball in the rack. A cues weight will not compensate for a powerful stroke that is crisp and clean.
You guys are most definitely talking about two different things.
I like Scott's view of breaking technique, but I also agree with Kerry's cue ball physics - as far as the moving cue ball is concerned, speed is power.
pj
chgo
I see The POWER in the Break Shot as success in making a ball on the break & controlling the Cue Ball for position on the next ball. That POWER allows the player at the table to control the game.
I see the Speed in a Break Shot, as a Cue Ball that is hit very hard.
I've seen thousands of players that can hit the Cue Ball over 28 mph, but only about 5% of the shots are controlled or kept it on the table.
Good Luck to all...
I see the Speed in a Break Shot, as a Cue Ball that is hit very hard.
I've seen thousands of players that can hit the Cue Ball over 28 mph, but only about 5% of the shots are controlled or kept it on the table.
Good Luck to all...
A good "power" break generates lots of cue and CB speed and results in a square hit on the lead ball.
Power (energy delivered over time) is required to generate cue speed. This can be done well only with good break technique.
Regards,
Dave
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I believe "heavy" is a relative term. Individuals will vary on what is heavy for them.
I tried an experiment a few years ago to see where the best weight for me was. I used a radar gun to measure break speed and started with a 17 oz cue and added weight in 1/2 oz increments. Ten breaks per weight and averaged out the speed. I also took photos of the table after the break to examine ball patterns and noted number of balls pocketed on the break. The test was conducted over multiple days to try to control for muscle fatigue.
I noticed a large drop in speed above 24 oz and found little to no difference in speed from 17 - 22oz for me. Others who tried the experiment saw a decrease in speed at a lower weight. I currently use a 60" 22oz Mace J/B for breaking and it works for me.
I believe there will be a point where reducing the weight of the break cue will no longer produce an increase in speed. I haven't heard of anyone trying to use a ultra light break cue (say 6-10 oz) but would be curious as to the results.
The optimal cue weight can vary a lot from one person to the next. For more info, see the
Regards,
Dave
Scott,
I understand what you are saying. The words "speed" and "power", however, mean what they mean. The meanings are true for all, regardless of their understanding of the concepts. Everything I wrote in my previous post is most definitely not true only for some. It is simple physics. What you are describing are the methods used for generating power, which is the ability to accelerate an object over a given period of time. I also have no trouble differentiating between speed and power, as they have fundamentally different definitions. I took a lot of physics classes in school. When I hear the word power I think work/time. It sounds like you (and probably many people here) are using the terms very loosely. This is fine, but can make conversation more challenging.
There is no question that the two methods you describe are different. I agree that the *results* of the break will likely be better with the method you describe. However, I thought (and I might be wrong) that the original poster was asking about how to generate a *hard* break. This is directly related to the speed of the cueball (assuming an equal fullness of hit at all speeds). Speed is a function of power, and vice versa. You cannot have speed without power. However, you can certainly have power without speed (like say you miss the cueball with your stick haha!!). But the cueball doesn't move on its own. Power is required to move the ball.
KMRUNOUT
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Well said!