Image of Pool, in Fact, was Created by a Con Artist
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
Doesn't this post belong in the aiming thread?
Jeff Livingston
"My bad" as the young people say.
pool rooms (and pool playing) had a bad reputation loooooong before the u.s. was even called the u.s.
like many states, in 1818 when IL became a state, billiards and billiard tables were immediately banned "for the prevention of vice and immorality ".
they were not passive about billiards, they were not strict, they were not precautionary, they were direct and to the point: NO BILLIARDS HERE. PERIOD.
in other words, pool's reputation was in fact that bad.
like many states, in 1818 when IL became a state, billiards and billiard tables were immediately banned "for the prevention of vice and immorality ".
they were not passive about billiards, they were not strict, they were not precautionary, they were direct and to the point: NO BILLIARDS HERE. PERIOD.
in other words, pool's reputation was in fact that bad.
Another great thread about perspectives, paradigms and the big picture.
Hanging out with the guys in my basement, getting drunk on a keg of Sam Adams Oktoberfest is an bad waste of time according to my mom. She would never approve.
Hanging out at the pool hall sober, drinking coffee, gambling a "dime" a set, down three sets on borrowed money with a wife and kids at home is evil to others.
Smoking a joint hanging at the pool hall with some friends is bad to others.
I like it all. It's pure entertainment to hang out at the hall. But, most people would be intimidated by the same situation. I've said it before, most of us players wouldn't like the changes necessary to bring pool to main stream America.
Hanging out with the guys in my basement, getting drunk on a keg of Sam Adams Oktoberfest is an bad waste of time according to my mom. She would never approve.
Hanging out at the pool hall sober, drinking coffee, gambling a "dime" a set, down three sets on borrowed money with a wife and kids at home is evil to others.
Smoking a joint hanging at the pool hall with some friends is bad to others.
I like it all. It's pure entertainment to hang out at the hall. But, most people would be intimidated by the same situation. I've said it before, most of us players wouldn't like the changes necessary to bring pool to main stream America.
I think the original post was serious as well as entertaining. Pool had a good rep a hundred years ago, and then developed the opposite, largely during the Great Depression. So the problem was there. But "The Music Man" (1962, one year after "The Hustler") was seen my millions of people, and I think it did do great damage to the image of pool.
Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Ironic in a way, since the negative comments regarding pool came from a con artist liar who made the statements in order to steal everyone's money.
Prior to the early 1900's pool indeed was looked upon as a gentleman's game mainly because due to the cost of ivory balls the game was played primarily by the wealthy. When lower cost materials became available and pool came to the lower classes, it's image changed.
Minnesota told me so it must be true
Incredible, next thing you'll be calling Minnesota Fats a liar :rotflmao:
Incredible, next thing you'll be calling Minnesota Fats a liar :rotflmao:
Pool's Image - The Reasons are Simple
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmJFy9pMeYg&feature=youtu.be
You are right, in marketing and advertising it's about "impressions" made on the most people...."The Music Man" made many more impressions than anything before it's time, combined with 'The Hustler'......here's an example of "THE ELITE" opening their arms to welcome Earl Strickland AND myself at THE YALE CLUB in New York City.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmJFy9pMeYg&feature=youtu.be
Pool just hasn't had a marketing group working diligently to Polish the Image in the last 13 years.....and the results are obvious....in the 90's pool halls like Jillians, Fox and Hound, Dave and Busters and Cool River were popping up all over the country! TV is the key...Out of Sight, Out of Mind :welcome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmJFy9pMeYg&feature=youtu.be
You are right, in marketing and advertising it's about "impressions" made on the most people...."The Music Man" made many more impressions than anything before it's time, combined with 'The Hustler'......here's an example of "THE ELITE" opening their arms to welcome Earl Strickland AND myself at THE YALE CLUB in New York City.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmJFy9pMeYg&feature=youtu.be
Pool just hasn't had a marketing group working diligently to Polish the Image in the last 13 years.....and the results are obvious....in the 90's pool halls like Jillians, Fox and Hound, Dave and Busters and Cool River were popping up all over the country! TV is the key...Out of Sight, Out of Mind :welcome:
Last edited:
Next you need to look into the Law of Supply and Demand.
TV... not bloody likely - not in the USA. Not in the Olympics either.
Not in your lifetime.
The bad news is:
people are not interested in watching pool.
Competive horseshoe pitching would draw a larger audience.
Dale(sad that it's true)
Face the Facts
I hear people refer to the game of 9Ball as a "failure"....this entices me to stand up for the Game and interject some FACTS...9 Ball was a TV Success and only in the last 13 years became a so called "failure" (more from someone not marketing televised events...it doesn't happen on it's own)....in the 90's the average viewing audience for 9Ball was a 1 POINT RATING (one million house holds)....I played a match in front of over 2.8 Million Viewers on ESPN ....and the total hours ESPN gave us in 3 years was over 600 International Hours....I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be classified a "failure" in the history of Television ...the challenge became "how to take that success to the next level"...however, there were some missing factors....and the pool game itself was NEVER one of those factors. imho
I hear people refer to the game of 9Ball as a "failure"....this entices me to stand up for the Game and interject some FACTS...9 Ball was a TV Success and only in the last 13 years became a so called "failure" (more from someone not marketing televised events...it doesn't happen on it's own)....in the 90's the average viewing audience for 9Ball was a 1 POINT RATING (one million house holds)....I played a match in front of over 2.8 Million Viewers on ESPN ....and the total hours ESPN gave us in 3 years was over 600 International Hours....I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be classified a "failure" in the history of Television ...the challenge became "how to take that success to the next level"...however, there were some missing factors....and the pool game itself was NEVER one of those factors. imho
One measure of whether 9-ball was a success or failure in the 1990's would be whether a significant number of professional players were able to earn a decent living from competitive pool events (not gambling). Do you feel the game was a success on that measure?
Speaking of music and pool, I can tell you that in the previous two centuries (18C and 19C while The Music Man was written in the 20C), the game was an aristocratic pursuit with such luminaries of music as Mozart being in love with it. I can name other great musicians and historical references to their love of pool as well as their perfection of the game. Elegance and skill combined with art back then. I have always enjoyed this aspect of the game in our more modern times with people such as Irving Crane bringing dignity and style to its performance.
Last edited:
Does it really matter today where or when pool got it's bad image?
The fact is, it created it's own image and it continues to do so even today.
It's rightly deserved. Integrity has left the building.
Here, I present a small sampling of the mindset of some of pool's practitioners.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=262380
In this case, it's perceived that it's acceptable to steal the intellectual property of others.
Make no mistake, it is stealing. Yet some will turn a blind-eye to the fact that it's criminal.
It's perceived to be acceptable by everyone that buys one of these 'knock-off' shafts.
The man making these shafts is a common thief and those that buy his product are his willing sponsors.
A court of law would find them equally as guilty in being conspirators. I do as well.
Yet many don't see anything wrong with this. "I can't see the elephant, he's too big."
The problem is right in front of you yet you can't see it; or you choose not to.
When you see it and recognize it for what it is and do nothing, you are condoning it with your silence.
It matters not whether it's Predator, OB Cues or any other legitimate manufacturer. Stealing is stealing.
Royce of OB Cues made a very profound statement with: "I urge everyone to respect intellectual property rights.
Failure to do so will destroy creativity".
Who would want to bring the latest technology to the marketplace only to have it stolen out from under them???
Cue-makers in the 'Ask The Cue-maker' section are genuinely hesitate to show a pic of their latest jig, fixture
or tooling to advance the craft because they know damn well that some thief is just waiting to steal their idea.
Why would you want to encourage these clowns by buying one of their knock-off products???
It's about values, it's about knowing right from wrong. Do nothing and pool will remain as it is.
It's muddied image will remain firmly and securely intact. Speak out, make your voice and your values heard.
Or continue to lie in the bed that you've made for yourself.
KJ
The fact is, it created it's own image and it continues to do so even today.
It's rightly deserved. Integrity has left the building.
Here, I present a small sampling of the mindset of some of pool's practitioners.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=262380
In this case, it's perceived that it's acceptable to steal the intellectual property of others.
Make no mistake, it is stealing. Yet some will turn a blind-eye to the fact that it's criminal.
It's perceived to be acceptable by everyone that buys one of these 'knock-off' shafts.
The man making these shafts is a common thief and those that buy his product are his willing sponsors.
A court of law would find them equally as guilty in being conspirators. I do as well.
Yet many don't see anything wrong with this. "I can't see the elephant, he's too big."
The problem is right in front of you yet you can't see it; or you choose not to.
When you see it and recognize it for what it is and do nothing, you are condoning it with your silence.
It matters not whether it's Predator, OB Cues or any other legitimate manufacturer. Stealing is stealing.
Royce of OB Cues made a very profound statement with: "I urge everyone to respect intellectual property rights.
Failure to do so will destroy creativity".
Who would want to bring the latest technology to the marketplace only to have it stolen out from under them???
Cue-makers in the 'Ask The Cue-maker' section are genuinely hesitate to show a pic of their latest jig, fixture
or tooling to advance the craft because they know damn well that some thief is just waiting to steal their idea.
Why would you want to encourage these clowns by buying one of their knock-off products???
It's about values, it's about knowing right from wrong. Do nothing and pool will remain as it is.
It's muddied image will remain firmly and securely intact. Speak out, make your voice and your values heard.
Or continue to lie in the bed that you've made for yourself.
KJ
9ball
Several of us were making over 100k a year....that was including endorsements, but I think that's fair to count (it's not gambling). Simonis, APA,CueTech and Brunswick/Diamond were paying a LOT of money in sponsorship....Camel Brand put in $600k a year for a couple years before some legal dispute and I won $88,000 in one week of tournaments on ESPN. The WPBA had Gentleman Jack (by Crown Royal) and several other pretty big sponsors as well....compared to now it was a thriving Pool economy with several TV Events a year. I'm not sure how long it's been since the men have had a televised Open event, the US OPEN isn't even televised these days.
Several of us were making over 100k a year....that was including endorsements, but I think that's fair to count (it's not gambling). Simonis, APA,CueTech and Brunswick/Diamond were paying a LOT of money in sponsorship....Camel Brand put in $600k a year for a couple years before some legal dispute and I won $88,000 in one week of tournaments on ESPN. The WPBA had Gentleman Jack (by Crown Royal) and several other pretty big sponsors as well....compared to now it was a thriving Pool economy with several TV Events a year. I'm not sure how long it's been since the men have had a televised Open event, the US OPEN isn't even televised these days.
How does one own an idea if he shares it with others?
If I buy a shaft, do I not own it then? If not, who does? Are you saying the original maker STILL OWNS the shaft that I bought and paid for?
This IP issue is coming to the forefront via the net. It is not as clear as you make it out to be.
May I recommend some reading for you about this?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=stephan+kinsella+patent
Jeff Livingston
Confess you were wrong yesterday; it will show you are wise today.
Proverb
Lou Figueroa
I don't think because a few eked out a living back then you can refer to it as a " thriving Pool economy". You could make the same argument today. There are a small number of players today who make a few bucks but over all playing pool is a welfare level existence. There are no benefits to being a pro player beyond immediate short term gratification, should you be lucky enough to win a tournament, with no real future.
Last edited: