Image of Pool, in Fact, was Created by a Con Artist

[JCIN]

I have no idea where you came up with that off the wall spin...I said...

"to have a chance to be a "vibrant and lucrative business" (IN PROFESSIONAL POOL, there's not even a Pro tour these days) it MUST first have the standard operating procedure of a business....Getting into this without wanting to create a standard operating procedure would be stupid"

"Getting into this would be stupid" was referring to Myself getting into this(PROFESSIONAL POOL) ...NOT you or anyone like you...... the "standard operating procedure" I was referring to was what I listed before , specifically - "staffing, management, marketing, advertising, product sales, research and development, merchandising, operations directors, and public relation components".

My background is the Service Industry for 20 years, I'm not a pool player, even though I can play the game pretty well (on a good day).

We feel for you if you're "making subsistence wages for five years, more than being in debt to the IRS, more than all the frustrations of building any type of business on a shoe string?" And that has nothing to do with me.

I'm being encouraged to get into the Professional Pool business by several players and they need leadership and I feel the need to help them if I can.

There's no "hidden agenda" and I certainly don't have anything against you JCIN, I don't even know you. If things I write have that kind of effect on you then I'd maybe take a step back and regroup....I'm SURE it has nothing to do with you and the plan I have has NOTHING to do with the things discussed on this forum EVER ... you can take that to the bank.

I know there's a lot of negativity right now in this forum and the pool world in general and if it's to change the boat will have to be rocked. Doing the same things, and acting the same ways certainly isn't going to get any different results....I'm not positively sure I can make a difference, however, I am willing to try and dedicate my experience, capital and time in ways that are new to this industry. If anyone wants to help that would be great and I still think many of us can team up and make a difference. :smile:

I keep hearing this shit: "Doing the same things, and acting the same ways certainly isn't going to get any different results"

The funny thing is all of the people saying it never actually DO anything. All I ask is maybe just for a second think that all the promoters, producers and industry people "Doing the same things" is the only reason there is ANY kind of pro game in this country at all.

Im all for you or anyone else going out taking a swing. Have at it. It is disrespectful to the people actually doing it everyday to dismiss out of hand the very efforts keeping the game alive. Yes it sucks and we all want it to be better but it could be a hell of a lot worse.

Quite simply we have heard it all before. Many times. Call that negative if you want. Go do something. Show us what you have done. If its good people will get on board. Asking for everyone to get on board with some as yet unrevealed idea just does not make any sense.

Besides....Bonus Ball is the next big thing. We can only have one big thing at time around here.

I'll leave you alone now. Everyone thinks I'm a negative asshole already no reason to beat it into the ground. All I ask is while you are doing this next big thing maybe have a little respect for the grunts who kept pro pool alive while you were dreaming it up.

P.S. Just for the record I'm not tooting my own horn here. I'm talking about the people who have been paying players and spreading pool for the last twenty years. If it wasnt for Pat Fleming, Griffin, Berhman, Greg Sullivan and those like them "Doing the same thing" for the last couple decades we wouldnt even have anything to talk about.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Mission Accomplished

I keep hearing this shit: "Doing the same things, and acting the same ways certainly isn't going to get any different results"

The funny thing is all of the people saying it never actually DO anything. All I ask is maybe just for a second think that all the promoters, producers and industry people "Doing the same things" is the only reason there is ANY kind of pro game in this country at all.

Im all for you or anyone else going out taking a swing. Have at it. It is disrespectful to the people actually doing it everyday to dismiss out of hand the very efforts keeping the game alive. Yes it sucks and we all want it to be better but it could be a hell of a lot worse.

Quite simply we have heard it all before. Many times. Call that negative if you want. Go do something. Show us what you have done. If its good people will get on board. Asking for everyone to get on board with some as yet unrevealed idea just does not make any sense.

Besides....Bonus Ball is the next big thing. We can only have one big thing at time around here.

I'll leave you alone now. Everyone thinks I'm a negative asshole already no reason to beat it into the ground. All I ask is while you are doing this next big thing maybe have a little respect for the grunts who kept pro pool alive while you were dreaming it up.

P.S. Just for the record I'm not tooting my own horn here. I'm talking about the people who have been paying players and spreading pool for the last twenty years. If it wasnt for Pat Fleming, Griffin, Berhman, Greg Sullivan and those like them "Doing the same thing" for the last couple decades we wouldnt even have anything to talk about.

Then the Pro Billiards Tour is fine....nice job

 

[lfigueroa]

The Business of Professional Pocket Billiards is like any other...it has staffing, management, marketing, advertising, product sales, research and development, merchandising, operations directors, and public relation components.....I'm not blaming it on these people, I'm making the case that there ARE NONE OF THESE PEOPLE in Professional Pocket Billiards...I'm sure everyone in this Forum understands the difference....I value your opinion, however, the point is Different.....to have a chance to be a "vibrant and lucrative business" it MUST first have the standard operating procedure of a business....Getting into this without wanting to create a standard operating procedure would be stupid :withstupid: It's smart to learn from the past and move forward with a Business plan.....a plan of action that follows the rules of business...the same rules that golf, tennis, basketball, football, etc follow.:welcome: I'm sure many Pros would find this welcoming indeed. And of course those involved will be held accountable by a Code of Conduct, Code of Ethics and a Policies and a Procedures Manual that has a specific Mission Statement with guidelines.

You’re right -- the industry has no management infrastructure. And do you know why? Because that takes money, big money (or at least the prospect of making money). Not too long ago on this board it was said that _________ (fill in the blank with the pool product, or tournament, or tour of your choice) should be promoted nationally with a professional PR campaign and I asked: where is the money for that supposed to come from? How do you convince someone with deep pockets that if they put up the capital they’re not only going to recoup their investment but actually turn a profit? It's highly expensive and labor intensive to run a national promotion. And do you know what the response was?

Crickets.

So I ask you: where is that money, or potential of making money, supposed to come from? Do you have a plan beyond bemoaning that the sport is not vibrant and lucrative; that there's no management; no PR? I ask because right about now you’re reminding me of someone else... you know, the guy who comes into town and tells everybody that they got trouble; right here, they got trouble. So what’s *your* plan? A boy’s band?

Lou Figueroa

 

[CJ Wiley]

Dallas MILLION DOLLAR CHALLENGE COMING SOON - THE REAL STORY



Lou Figueroa[/QUOTE]a boy's band CLICK EARL's PICTURE TO SEE MORE

How does one get any enjoyment out of life? Of course there's money in Texas....the last tournament at CJ's a player (Earl Strickland) won the most money in History and I put in over $100,000 in addition myself ... The world won't come to an end if a Professional Pool Player makes money...'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[lfigueroa]

How does one get any enjoyment out of life? Of course there's money in Texas....the last tournament at CJ's a player (Earl Strickland) won the most money in History and I put in over $100,000 in addition myself ... The world won't come to an end if a Professional Pool Player makes money...'The Game is the Teacher'

Reminding everyone about one tournament that happened what, 16 years ago, is not much of a plan for 2012.

Lou Figueroa

 

[chefjeff]

As this threads goes down the same o' rathole of ruined threads, maybe I can remember that most of us have the common goal of helping pool survive? Maybe you, too?

Jeff Livingston

 

[lfigueroa]

As this threads goes down the same o' rathole of ruined threads, maybe I can remember that most of us have the common goal of helping pool survive? Maybe you, too?

Jeff Livingston

lol. Things a little slow in the NPR forum?

Lou Figueroa

 

[chefjeff]

lol. Things a little slow in the NPR forum?

Lou Figueroa

No, why do you ask?

Jeff Livingston

 

[Ghosst]

If it wasnt for Pat Fleming, Griffin, Collett, Berhman, Greg Sullivan and those like them "Doing the same thing" for the last couple decades we wouldnt even have anything to talk about.

Fixed that for you.

 

[duckie]

I often wonder if the bad imagine about pool only exists in the pool playing world and the general public in this day and age just don't really have any real imagine about pool playing.

Look at the scandals that have rocked the main stream pro sports. Yet, the overall imagine of pro sports isn't hurt. Why? Because people understand that there are just bad people in life and as such really isn't a reflection of the sport itself.

The ongoing con is thinking that any changes at the pro level will be the savior of pool.

No changes need to be made to the games already played. Better places to play and city/school support will be what is needed out pool on the same levels as other sports that cities/schools support. The was a high school football stadium just built in Texas that rivals some pro teams stadium. Baseball, soccer, fields are built. This is why the main stream sports are main stream. Imagine if the same about of money went into providing a class room of say 10 tables.

There is no difference in what is takes to become a top football player and a top pool player. Both take hard work, desire, training, drive to exceed in the sports.

Just think if pool had this same kinda support. There needs to be an effort to get pool programs into school or into city's after hours programs.

Pool is the best sport out there that allows everyone to compete on the same level. It is one of the few sports where you can have a 12 year girl playing a 80 year man and both have a equal chance at winning. But you want find these two types of players in bars with pool tables, well at least not the 12 year old.

To sum it up, fix the problem, not the blame.

 

[lfigueroa]

No, why do you ask?

Jeff Livingston

Probably you referring to rathole threads and that you seem to post a lot in the NPR forum -- home of many a rathole thread -- and where I don't see you chastising folks as threads alter course. A little more seriously, there's nothing wrong with a frank discussion about where the game is, has been, and is going. Sometimes that involves pointed questions and threads migrating from their starting point.

I suppose that if you don't like what's happening in a particular thread you can a) try to steer it back with a *thoughtful* on-topic post, or b) stop following the thread. Saying instead that those actually participating and enjoying the discussion have "ruined" the thread somehow, some way, and might even be against the survival of pool, is not so helpful.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Fixed that for you.

Nice!

Lou Figueroa

 

[CJ Wiley]

Voice of Pocket Billiards Past 'The Game is the Teacher'

Reminding everyone about one tournament that happened what, 16 years ago, is not much of a plan for 2012.




And "pessimists" would be quick to point out that the next 3 years ESPN gave Our Tour - THE PCA (and the WPBA) over 600 International Hours of Exposure for the Game of Pocket Billiards. Bringing Million$ into the Industry, generating publically traded upscale Billiard Clubs ie: Fox and Hound (founded right here by friends in Dallas Texas) AND putting a combined total of OVER ONE MILLION DOLLARS into the Professional Pool Players Pockets....no, this is not the plan, this is obviously things that happened in the past....and at some point you will be allowed to talk about yourself WITHOUT mentioning anything in your past, and not right now.

Right now I'm going to tell you about it with a "voice from the past"

CLICK ON THE PICTURE TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE PAST (FYI)

[IMG]VOICE FROM THE PAST[/IMG]

 

[Ghosst]

... ... ... ... ... ...

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

And "pessimists" would be quick to point out that the next 3 years ESPN gave Our Tour - THE PCA (and the WPBA) over 600 International Hours of Exposure for the Game of Pocket Billiards. Bringing Million$ into the Industry, generating publically traded upscale Billiard Clubs ie: Fox and Hound (founded right here by friends in Dallas Texas) AND putting a combined total of OVER ONE MILLION DOLLARS into the Professional Pool Players Pockets....no, this is not the plan, this is obviously things that happened in the past....and at some point you will be allowed to talk about yourself WITHOUT mentioning anything in your past, and not right now.

CJ, You've mentioned the ESPN overage a couple of times now and I do wonder how much of those 600 international hours were devoted to telecasts of live coverage in the U.S. of any pool events taking place anywhere? Times are different now than back then also. ESPN was starving for content (think Americas Cup). But now ESPN has NFL and MLB, and multiple channels stuffed with content.

I like the Golf Channel thing. I always figured a Billiards channel would have a shot at success because whether or not pool players want to watch pool, I think they certainly would watch instructional programming. And initially anyway, it would give streamers an outlet for their product.

 

[lfigueroa]

And "pessimists" would be quick to point out that the next 3 years ESPN gave Our Tour - THE PCA (and the WPBA) over 600 International Hours of Exposure for the Game of Pocket Billiards. Bringing Million$ into the Industry, generating publically traded upscale Billiard Clubs ie: Fox and Hound (founded right here by friends in Dallas Texas) AND putting a combined total of OVER ONE MILLION DOLLARS into the Professional Pool Players Pockets....no, this is not the plan, this is obviously things that happened in the past....and at some point you will be allowed to talk about yourself WITHOUT mentioning anything in your past, and not right now.

Right now I'm going to tell you about it with a "voice from the past"

It's not about being a pessimist it's about being a realist.

Show me where "millions" were brought into the industry -- I must have missed that part or are you just counting a few big pay days way back when for a few players? Talk to me instead about sustainable incomes, of even a fraction of a million in today's dollars, for the cadre of today's pro pool players -- and not just a few players in the right place at the right time 16 years ago.

Fox and Hound was nice, so was Click's, and where are they now? The market/economy is different in 2012. Have you driven around and seen all the properties for lease, or asked you neighbors if they are in default or underwater? Have they lost money in the arbitrage scandals; the dot.com bust; the market bubble in general; lost their job; or maybe they're just having trouble filling their gas tanks at $4 a gallon to drive to the next tournament to stay four to a room and eat Cheerios for dinner? Do you have any idea of how many pool rooms have shutter their doors just in the last five years?

Please: save your "voice from the past" until you can clear your throat and talk about the here and now, or maybe at least tomorrow.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Mr. Bond]

image of pool 209 yrs ago

if you can get past the old school grammar:

....The affair originated in a dispute upon the subject of a game which is now become so prevalent in almost every part of the metropolis, at every place of amusement in its vicinity, at every watering place throughout the kingdom, and affords so glaring a source of vitiation [corruption] and debauch to the morals of the rising generation, and of ways and means to whole myriads of sharpers [sharks], as loudly to demand the attention of the magistrates [the cops], at least for its control, if not for its supression.

We allude to the game of billiards. This scientific game, as it is called, is become quite the school for knowing ones, and forms a branch of spherics much more sedulously studied by the youth of the present day, even at our public schools and universities, than the doctrines of Newton or Euclid; while, in the metropolis, and at all the watering -places, the billiard rooms are become the haunts of sharpers, swindlers, and professed gamblers, whose objects are to plunder, with impunity, the unguarded flukes [newbies], whom they can inveigle [dupe] to play, and whose easy, though infamous emoluments, [profits] procured in this way, tempt thousands of our inexperienced youth to abandon their industrious pursuits, and fly from the desk, the counter, or the counting house, to follow the management of the mace and cue, and acquire consumate skill at the red and white game.

From: Sporting Magazine October 1803 pp.200-201


it sounds almost identical to what is being implied in the music man...billiards corrupting our town and our youth.

 

[CJ Wiley]

What exactly is "The Game is the Teacher Promotion" and how can I get involved?

It's not about being a pessimist it's about being a realist.

Show me where "millions" were brought into the industry -- I must have missed that part or are you just counting a few big pay days way back when for a few players? Talk to me instead about sustainable incomes, of even a fraction of a million in today's dollars, for the cadre of today's pro pool players -- and not just a few players in the right place at the right time 16 years ago.

Fox and Hound was nice, so was Click's, and where are they now? The market/economy is different in 2012. Have your driven around and seen all the properties for lease, or asked you neighbors if they are in default or underwater? Have they lost money in the arbitrage scandals; the dot.com bust; the market bubble in general; lost their job; or maybe they're just having trouble filling their gas tanks at $4 a gallon to drive to the next tournament to stay four to a room and eat Cheerios for dinner? Do you have any idea of how many pool rooms have shutter their doors just in the last five years?

Please: save your "voice from the past" until you can clear your throat and talk about the here and now, or maybe at least tomorrow.

Lou Figueroa

Thanks for agreeing Lou, no apology needed, but it does lead me to my next point.....there are a lot of Professional Players approaching me, curious about what the "The Game is the Teacher Promotion" will be, and how it "may" effect the future of 'The Game' ... if you are a professional pocket billiard player, actor or athlete and want to get involved, whether for TV appearances or Product Placement please feel free to contact me via Private Message....your identity will be revealed ONLY with your Consent! - CLICK THIS LINK TO KEEP UP WITH NOW>>>TheGameIsTheTeacher

 

[CJ Wiley]

The TV Formula....the Key to the "New Age of Pool"

CJ, You've mentioned the ESPN overage a couple of times now and I do wonder how much of those 600 international hours were devoted to telecasts of live coverage in the U.S. of any pool events taking place anywhere? Times are different now than back then also. ESPN was starving for content (think Americas Cup). But now ESPN has NFL and MLB, and multiple channels stuffed with content.

I like the Golf Channel thing. I always figured a Billiards channel would have a shot at success because whether or not pool players want to watch pool, I think they certainly would watch instructional programming. And initially anyway, it would give streamers an outlet for their product.

Yes, we're not interested in ESPN and are taking a different approach in our production. We won't be filming matches like what's been done in the past. We feel there's too much "dead time" and the average attention span according to our research is 10 minutes unless content is stimulating.

 

[lfigueroa]

Thanks for agreeing Lou, no apology needed, but it does lead me to my next point.....there are a lot of Professional Players approaching me, curious about what the "The Game is the Teacher Promotion" will be, and how it "may" effect the future of 'The Game' ... if you are a professional pocket billiard player, actor or athlete and want to get involved, whether for TV appearances or Product Placement please feel free to contact me via Private Message....your identity will be revealed ONLY with your Consent! - CLICK THIS LINK TO KEEP UP WITH NOW>>>TheGameIsTheTeacher

I don't believe I've agreed with you but if you want to claim so, knock yourself out.

Lou Figueroa