You can add skyler woodward to that list this young gun can realy play
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Potential pro caliber players in APA league
- Thread starter bazkook
- Start date
Personally I would enjoy the challenge of playing someone of that level in league play, however I would usually throw off on someone like that...haha
james i don't think most of us are complaining. i think most like me are happy we get to play a guy like jeff for a cheap weekly league fee. the only other ways i can play guys like that is to pay a minimum of $50 bucks for a donation to a tournament or gamble. being that i am fairly broke these days i can't do that stuff like i used to.
i think it was just more of a question as to where is the line between pro and not and who can play in a league. you're an example of someone i'd love to play against but i won't have a chance unless i get some extra cash i can throw at a tournament you're playing in and i get a lucky draw. and i've seen your posts on here. i know you'll play for the cash but i really couldn't afford that kind of donation. i don't know much about you. wether or not you have a job outside of pool or pool is all you do, but if you're working a job on top of trying to play as well as i've heard you do, i wouldn't mind at all if i heard you still played in a league somewhere.
having better players in leagues makes me feel better when the shit heads on here say how week league play is and you suck if you play in leagues. i am glad this thread got started and all the names of really strong league players are coming out. it justifies, just a little, playing in leagues.
SAndcastle is a great room. It's one of the best player rooms in teh area and the players that hang out there tend to play strong. Also, as you know, a "B" player in NJ/NYC can vary a bit in other parts of the country, like any other ratings. From my travels, our "B's" tend to be stronger than B's in other areas. Maybe it's due to the population density here?
Eric
JR,
You are correct. May I compliment you on your attitude towards the game of pool. The greatest percentage of the local players I match up with in league play, either BCAPL or APA, tend to sound like you. When they draw me, they say they try make our match a learning experience. If I'm fortunate enough to run out, some ask why I chose a difficult shot over another, far easier one. Why I chose solids when the strips appeared to be easier. Those are the players I know who want to try to get "better". The ones who tell me how lucky I am? Just let them wonder. Their attitude is what holds them back, not their skill level.
Lyn
Tons of GREY AREA in this!!! If you want a strong honest opinion then I will say this...
The APA aint gonna do squat unless they're a huge number of complaints about one individual. As long as they are rated the highest they can be rated then whatever.. As long as the APA gets their money they don't care.
I know tons of guys that have played in pro events (and beat pros!!) and they play in the APA BCA or POS leagues. Unless you are of top or well known pros your under the radar to them and every other banger out there.
If someone has a regular job cause they cant support themselves playing full time as a pro. Then I don't see an issue with them playing in the APA.
Problem is apa needs to reconfigure handicaps to 1-9 scale in 8-ball as they do in 9. They also should raise the alloted team total points to 25 or so. The league continues to grow, and it's time they adjust the rules. Existing players get better move up and recruit new blood who they train to sandbag. More energy is wasted keeping rankings in order then playing pool. That's why the APA has major issues in my opinion, and why it gets ragged on so much.
Problem is apa needs to reconfigure handicaps to 1-9 scale in 8-ball as they do in 9. They also should raise the alloted team total points to 25 or so. The league continues to grow, and it's time they adjust the rules. Existing players get better move up and recruit new blood who they train to sandbag. More energy is wasted keeping rankings in order then playing pool. That's why the APA has major issues in my opinion, and why it gets ragged on so much.
Well said.
And you are 100% correct. Problem is, it is exactly why APA is so successful. They continuously force teams apart to form new teams under the "23" rule. TAP, if my memory serves me correctly, uses a "25" rule. It allows teams to stay together much longer. Is there still sandbagging? Of course. That will never end no matter what number they choose. Some players want to win above all else. To paraphrase if I may, "the first victim of war is "the truth".
Lyn
I'm betting that there are a lot of areas throughout the country that dont have a high number of 6's and 7's, so if you raise the limit to 25, you could end up with some stacked teams. I know around here that could easily happen.
With the limit at 23, you really cant carry too many higher level players. Much more difficult to stack.
And yes, the "growing the business" part works well, too. All in all, its a smart business model. And it works, for an awful lot of people.
With the limit at 23, you really cant carry too many higher level players. Much more difficult to stack.
And yes, the "growing the business" part works well, too. All in all, its a smart business model. And it works, for an awful lot of people.
Dub, you know that I'm no APA basher. I play in four APA leagues. 8-ball, 9-ball, and two Masters leagues (mini-Masters and "big boy" Masters). That said, if they raised the skill level limit to 25, the ability of stacking a team could still be defeated by having a rule that no three players skill levels can equal 18 for any given night. That way, two 7's could play, but not three 6's. There is a rule already in place in APA 9-ball that does not let you play more than two 6's (or up) in a nights match. They could just institute a rule like this for 8-ball. With a 25 limit rule, a team could come with five 5's if they wanted to. Any team should be able to match up with this type of lineup if they had to (how many SL5's do you know that likes playing down to a SL3? :wink
.Maniac
Dub, you know that I'm no APA basher. I play in four APA leagues. 8-ball, 9-ball, and two Masters leagues (mini-Masters and "big boy" Masters). That said, if they raised the skill level limit to 25, the ability of stacking a team could still be defeated by having a rule that no three players skill levels can equal 18 for any given night. That way, two 7's could play, but not three 6's. There is a rule already in place in APA 9-ball that does not let you play more than two 6's (or up) in a nights match. They could just institute a rule like this for 8-ball. With a 25 limit rule, a team could come with five 5's if they wanted to. Any team should be able to match up with this type of lineup if they had to (how many SL5's do you know that likes playing down to a SL3? :wink
Maniac
Not me.
I can see that viewpoint. I was just throwing out some possibilities that folks in certain areas of the country might not think of, me being out here in the woods and all.... We only have a handful of 6's and 7's here and if you start teaming them up, and letting them play some 5's, too.....
APA 9 ball bias
I still dont understand why APA allows a 2 point higher 9 ball skill level versus 8 ball. I am a 9/7 in Austin and I have run 2 or 3 in a row myself but I am by no means a run the set player. Anyway, back on topic, I think APA is willing to put up with 8 ball ringers versus the 9's because of their old school attitude of 9 ball being a gamblers game. I give props to anyone that can make it all the way to singles 8 ball finals because funny things happen on loose 7 footers in Vegas. I have heard of super 7's in CA and I think that is their way of addressing just the player you are talking about but for the time being APA likes 8 and has some strange prejudice against 9.
I still dont understand why APA allows a 2 point higher 9 ball skill level versus 8 ball. I am a 9/7 in Austin and I have run 2 or 3 in a row myself but I am by no means a run the set player. Anyway, back on topic, I think APA is willing to put up with 8 ball ringers versus the 9's because of their old school attitude of 9 ball being a gamblers game. I give props to anyone that can make it all the way to singles 8 ball finals because funny things happen on loose 7 footers in Vegas. I have heard of super 7's in CA and I think that is their way of addressing just the player you are talking about but for the time being APA likes 8 and has some strange prejudice against 9.
Last year, I took a break from local BCA since players thought I was underrated as a 8. I got into verbal argument with one guy and quit after we got back from Vegas. I'm not a fan of 8-ball, and love 9-ball, but if the table opens up I usually get out. Anyway, about 6 weeks ago a buddy from work asked if I wanted to play APA. I told him I didn't want to deal with that underrated crap, not a fan of 8-ball, and rather play in $50/$60 9-ball Amateur tournaments. He said I'll be a 7, and this the highest rating and won't have the underrated issue since there is a range of low and high level 7's at Mr. Cues on Monday. As it stands I've played three weeks and lost one game and I'm a 7. I know Tim Orange well and he's a AA player. I'm a B+/A- player. Playing him in APA will be a hard match to win, just like Jeff, but I'm playing for the enjoyment of the game. I work 50-60 hours a week and this is my hobby/stress reliever.
Should there be a Master league, sure but the guys on my team are looking to grow their game, so this is a cool opportunity for me to help them. Should Jeff be considered a pro, that the APA's call. I don't see anyone complaining at league. I think most folks are trying to learn something. The league is cheap and you can play all night for free. The weekend tournaments have low entries, so it's not like you putting in a big investment and losing too much if a 7 cleans you out. I like APA, for what it is, but I've heard there are issues of dropping games/matches to lower stats. I told my team if I see this happen, I'm done. So far, I'm enjoying it. Looking forward to play strong players to keep me sharp.
Cheers, Mark
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We need more players with this attitude. Whenever I captain a team and someone wants to come over to play on it, the first thing I tell them is "If you're a sandbagger, I don't want you on my team". I have yet to ever have one on any team I've been on in six years of APA leagues.
Thanks for being one of the "good guys"!!!
Maniac
Well, the thing is, that would open the APA up to a lot of pros, because the money in pool is so bad. Look at the money list and you'll see the #30 guy earning under 30k. The guys who are further down the list, earning say... 10k or less... they would need another job but they'd still play at level that's very very high, high enough that any player in the non-masters league has almost no shot.
I guess I can't see a problem with those guys playing in masters, but if you got a few of them on a team together... other teams would prolly drop out.
Thanks. I treat league as a fun night out and to keep in stroke. If I want to play seriously, I'll play in a tourney or for cash. Nowadays, I'm in it for the enjoyment, since I'm lucky to play 2-3hrs a week.
Cheers, Mark
my opinion is in 2 parts. first this shows the weak handicapping system of apa.I havent played in apa in ten years and was a 6 ,but recently when I started playing again I went to scout the competition and what was a strong 5 years ago is a 7 now.I watched 2 7's play and one was completley out classed. So if it is easy to become a 7 witch if I play again I would become in a session easily(because of watered down 7's).So the handicap system helps (besides sandbagging) until u become a 7 then its the wild west with guys and gals alot better than eachother playing an even race
.Number 2 part is in my opinion I am happy to have super strong players play on the barbox because you can learn from them,they have to play shapes differently on a BB so u can learn from them.
.Number 2 part is in my opinion I am happy to have super strong players play on the barbox because you can learn from them,they have to play shapes differently on a BB so u can learn from them.
I don't really see it, as there aren't enough people in that category for it to be worthwhile. In the end they'd either be having to pay far higher dues (on a per game basis) or something else to make up for the fact that there are so few of them. Otherwise there would be nada for prize money or trips to nationals, etc. I'd be willing to bet that actively playing in APA there are probably only 4-5 players in a given league operator's area who would fall into the category you describe.