Pool has a "FATAL FLAW"

TV ADS ARE POWERFUL with the PROS on ESPN

Cuemaster98 said:
Agreed.

I think the industry as a whole need to market the game of pool differently and more effectively.

Duc.
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I agree with that input. Men and women can also play on a level playing field and that's a special quality that pool has. The marketing and advertising these days is few and far between. When I had my pool room CJ's Billiard Palace I did 4 TV commercials a night for 3 straight years. I also produced 3 televised events from CJ's and did almost 500k one year on pool time alone. Not too shabby, but I know it was a result of the aggresive marketing and TV/ESPN advertising of the pros. My slogan was "CJ's Play Where The Pros Play"
CLICK TO SEE CJS COMMERCIAL
CLICK TO SEE CARSONS "CJ"COMMERCIAL
 
CreeDo said:
If participation is down sharply over a relatively short span of 5 years, why was pool popular in the first place before that? We had the exact same games with the exact same problems 10 years ago.
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There has been an attrition for the last 10 years. I only sighted the last 5. There is no doubt that the economy has compounded pool's troubles. The economy could get good right now and I don't think it would matter.
 
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This is literally the worst thread I have ever laid eyes on.

OP, No. Just stop. Jeez. Your argument is so invalid it makes me want to go crawl in a corner and die.
 
Pool's Marketing, Advertising, and P.R. has been neglected on a massive scale

Paul Schofield said:
There has been an attrition for the last 10 years. I only sighted the last 5. There is no doubt that the economy has compounded pool's troubles. The economy could get good right now and I don't think it would matter.
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When You look at what's being done today compared to 20 years ago it's obvious why pool's wilting away. Just like a plant you have to give The Game sunshine, water and encouraging verbal nutrients. The Game's Marketing, Advertising, and P.R. has been neglected on a massive scale professionally and on TV in America. Remember Out of Sight Out of Mind.
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cjssecrets4u2 said:
The Game's Marketing, Advertising, and P.R. has been neglected on a massive scale professionally and on TV in America
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I can't disagree more. I think there have been a number of aggressive, sincere, and valiant efforts in these areas you have mentioned. I think that after all the efforts, plans, and capital expended over the decades with marginal results, we would begin to ask ourselves "What are we marketing?" Is what we are marketing even marketable today?
 
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How do we know pool isn't a "diamond in the rough" these days?

Paul Schofield said:
I can't disagree more. I think there have been a number of aggressive, sincere, and valiant efforts in these areas you have mentioned. I think that after all the efforts, plans, and capital expended over the decades with marginal results, we would begin to ask ourselves "What are we marketing?" Is what we are marketing even marketable today?
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If you're asking yourself "what are we marketing" then I"m pretty sure that's a sign of not knowing what anyone's marketing. I have a lot of experience in developing strategic marketing plans and the first step is to have a clear, defined mission statement, and a well defined plan to reach the specific goals with a team of professionals experienced in these positions. If this has happened to any extent I'm not aware of it.

When you say "all the efforts, plans, and capital expended", can you identify:

1) What efforts specifically?
2) What plans were implemented?
3) What capital, and how was it expended?

When you say "I think there have been a number of aggressive, sincere, and valiant efforts", what are you referring to?

If all these "aggressive, sincere, valiant efforts" didn't get the Game on TV, then what did they do for the Game? Without TV coverage of some kind no one really even knows Pocket Billiards is an option as a recreational activity. How would we even know if these "valiant efforts" worked or not? Was there any level of success and if so, how was it measured. Was there a professional marketing team put in place or were these "aggressive, sincere, valiant efforts put forth by individuals? What were these "individuals experience in market research and development?

In answering these questions at least we will be on the right track to properly answer your question
"What are we marketing?" Is what we are marketing even marketable today?

I, personally think we should be marketing Professional Pocket Billiards in a way that develops an "Emotional Attachment" with the 40 Million people that play pool at least once a week in the United States. Judging by the success of Poker, Mixed Martial Arts and Wrestling I would think it would be prudent to at least try to some kind of "Reality Show" with pool as a backdrop.

The movies 'The Hustler' and 'The Color of Money' proved that people are attracted to well developed Characters and unless this is tried with aggressive, sincere, and valiant efforts how could we possible know if it can be done or not? I don't see any reason to "give up" if no one has even tried to do anything along these lines.

I'm sure many people thought "American Idol" would be a flop too, but someone tried it anyway. Can we at least agree that history is full of examples of Shows that caught on that went against "public opinion". Kung Fu was turned down at first and ROCKY was turned down many times as were many other high profile examples. How do we know pool isn't a "diamond in the rough" these days if know one will even try to polish it?
 
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No game has a draw without the personalities involved. History backs that up 100%

CreeDo said:
Renfro (and others) have it. TV sells characters. Do a good enough job with promoting the characters, and you can engage people... Maybe to the point where the actual hitting of pool balls is secondary.

I remember the IPT trying to do this, telling the story of how Busty continued to play despite news of the death of his daughter. That's the kind of thing that makes you feel something for a player, vs. "last year this guy was in the running for the DCC all-around, and he's been hitting 'em good all day today."

This would help offset some of the sterile, bland feeling that Paul's been talking about, I think... give them a good backstory and skilled commentators who will inject something more interesting than "I think he has to hit this with inside and go around three rails".
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I totally agree that for pool to become popular ironically enough, The Game MUST take a back seat at first. The primary story needs to be about the characters involved, not the game. No game has a draw without the personalities involved. History backs that up 100%. imho

When I was playing full time there were several of us that promoted in our own areas of the country (and some nation/world wide), Jeanette Lee, Vivian, Allison, Sigel, Hopkins, Hall, Miz, Archer, Davenport, Varner, West, Martin, Wilson, and of course Keith M. and several others were in 'The Color of Money' , ' The Baltimore Bullet' and even 'Pool Hall Junkies'.....and there's no doubt what Mosconi and Fats did in, and as a result of the movie 'The Hustler'....however, even without movies it's VITALLY IMPORTANT to do press releases to local magazines, newspapers, and local news TV Stations.....I would advise ALL the younger players to DO YOUR PART and if you have any quesions on HOW to get started or need advise on HOW to write the press releases FEEL FREE to contact me anytime....I can ALWAYS be reached on Face Book via Private Message. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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play IT in front of as many people as possible through newspapers, TV, Radio, Etc.

manwon said:
So what do you propose to fix it?

I am not being a smart ass, I am truly interested in your thought's.
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I was talking to one of the younger Champion pocket billiards players last night. He said I have been seeing your "The Game is the Teacher" promotion and what can I do to promote the Game? I said "Promote Yourself playing the game...do charity events, play to raise money for kids programs, hospitals,and other worthy causes...show the world what the Game can do THROUGH YOU....after all, it's not the Game that's alluring, it's the people playing it....I've seen a pool table with no one playing on it and it's not that exciting....Remember, the key to Promotion is MOTION...the Game plays through what we do in our lives, so play IT in front of as many people as possible through newspapers, TV, Radio and the internet....take care of the GAME FIRST, and the Game will take always take care of you!!!" The Game is the Teacher'
 
I want to be sure I understand you. Simply put: Nine-Ball is the game and it only needs to be marketed effectively.
 
The Game is not "dead", It's just been "wounded", let's help It Get Better

I left the Game for many years and got involved in the nightclub business that generated a tremendous economy for many people and businesses. I set a goal to be the "best in Texas" and accomplished that with Carsons Palace. It had the highest recorded TABC sales out of ALL restaurants, bars, and nightclubs in the state of Texas. We managed a staff of over 120 employees and I was "on top of the world" in terms of public perception of success. To the casual observer it appeared I had "made it".

You would think this would be a "live happily ever after story", but there was one thing that "interfered" with my contentment in my new found success. I felt like a had left a great friend on the battle field.

A friend that had done everything in it's power for me. A friend that had fed me, given me the ability to travel the country and see the world, a friend that through thick and thin had always been with me, guiding, directing, building character, confidence, and wisdom.

I started getting this dreadful feeling that I had left this friend wounded, with not enough strength to make it on it's own. I told some people what I had done, but they didn't understand, how could they?

It's difficult for just "anyone" to understand that this friend that I had such a deep admiration and love for was not a person, not a place and not a thing. It was a Game. The Master Game! Now it's time to Help It get back on It's Feet. We will appreciate you helping if you can. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
I left the Game for many years and got involved in the nightclub business that generated a tremendous economy for many people and businesses. I set a goal to be the "best in Texas" and accomplished that with Carsons Palace. It had the highest recorded TABC sales out of ALL restaurants, bars, and nightclubs in the state of Texas. We managed a staff of over 120 employees and I was "on top of the world" in terms of public perception of success. To the casual observer it appeared I had "made it".

You would think this would be a "live happily ever after story", but there was one thing that "interfered" with my contentment in my new found success. I felt like a had left a great friend on the battle field.

A friend that had done everything in it's power for me. A friend that had fed me, given me the ability to travel the country and see the world, a friend that through thick and thin had always been with me, guiding, directing, building character, confidence, and wisdom.

I started getting this dreadful feeling that I had left this friend wounded, with not enough strength to make it on it's own. I told some people what I had done, but they didn't understand, how could they?

It's difficult for just "anyone" to understand that this friend that I had such a deep admiration and love for was not a person, not a place and not a thing. It was a Game. The Master Game! Now it's time to Help It get back on It's Feet. We will appreciate you helping if you can. 'The Game is the Teacher'
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This is pure schmaltz.
 
I"m pretty sure that's a sign of not knowing what anyone's marketing.

Paul Schofield said:
I can't disagree more. I think there have been a number of aggressive, sincere, and valiant efforts in these areas you have mentioned. I think that after all the efforts, plans, and capital expended over the decades with marginal results, we would begin to ask ourselves "What are we marketing?" Is what we are marketing even marketable today?
Click to expand...

If you're asking yourself "what are we marketing" then I"m pretty sure that's a sign of not knowing what anyone's marketing. I have a lot of experience in developing strategic marketing plans and the first step is to have a clear, defined mission statement, and a well defined plan to reach the specific goals with a team of professionals experienced in these positions. If this has happened to any extent I'm not aware of it.

When you say "all the efforts, plans, and capital expended", can you identify:

1) What efforts specifically?
2) What plans were implemented?
3) What capital, and how was it expended?

When you say "I think there have been a number of aggressive, sincere, and valiant efforts", what are you referring to?

If all these "aggressive, sincere, valiant efforts" didn't get the Game on TV, then what did they do for the Game? Without TV coverage of some kind no one really even knows Pocket Billiards is an option as a recreational activity. How would we even know if these "valiant efforts" worked or not? Was there any level of success and if so, how was it measured. Was there a professional marketing team put in place or were these "aggressive, sincere, valiant efforts put forth by individuals? What were these "individuals experience in market research and development?

In answering these questions at least we will be on the right track to properly answer your question
"What are we marketing?" Is what we are marketing even marketable today?

I, personally think we should be marketing Professional Pocket Billiards in a way that develops an "Emotional Attachment" with the 40 Million people that play pool at least once a week in the United States. Judging by the success of Poker, Mixed Martial Arts and Wrestling I would think it would be prudent to at least try to some kind of "Reality Show" with pool as a backdrop.

The movies 'The Hustler' and 'The Color of Money' proved that people are attracted to well developed Characters and unless this is tried with aggressive, sincere, and valiant efforts how could we possible know if it can be done or not? I don't see any reason to "give up" if no one has even tried to do anything along these lines.

I'm sure many people thought "American Idol" would be a flop too, but someone tried it anyway. Can we at least agree that history is full of examples of Shows that caught on that went against "public opinion". Kung Fu was turned down at first and ROCKY was turned down many times as were many other high profile examples. How do we know pool isn't a "diamond in the rough" these days if know one will even try to polish it?
 
We are not even talking about the same thing. I am trying to get people to play pool. You are trying to get them to watch pool.
 
Don't fall into the ole "do the same thing, get the same results" routine.

Paul Schofield said:
We are not even talking about the same thing. I am trying to get people to play pool. You are trying to get them to watch pool.
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I'm trying to get you to "try something new" and realize that "people see, people do". The essential component in Promotion is Motion, and I've shown you the TV commercials I've used in the past, ideas on getting pros involved in you area, and several other ideas that are proven to get results. And on the "big picture" TV is the key, but that's something I'm personally trying to see drastically improve for everyone's benefit.

Also, suggested promotional ideas you could use, etc. One things for certain if you play the "blame the game" it's not going to get any better, you'll just fall into the ole "do the same thing, get the same results" routine.

I feel there is vast amount of promotional knowlege, comments and questions you can ask yourself to get the results you seek. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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