Pool has a "FATAL FLAW"

[Push&Pool]

I don't wanna start an arguement (though I see it already began :grin-square: ) but I have to say this "problem" about some players never getting close to the table during the entire game also come to my mind. I don't know how to solve that to provide more fair chances to both sides, so I'll leave that to more experienced players.

Talking about fair chances, the BiH rule isn't helping much as well. I'm well aware that a good player knows how to avoid scratching, hitting wrong balls etc., but it still allows the opponent to easily drop some completely blocked balls which would take him several shots to pocket without BiH. That rule simply ruins the defensive aspects of the game and gives even more advantage to more experienced players. Where I play, CB goes to the headspot after being sunk and you can only shoot the balls on the opposite half of the table. That way the games last longer, are way more challenging and a lot more entertaining.

 

[CreeDo]

Talking about fair chances, the BiH rule isn't helping much as well. I'm well aware that a good player knows how to avoid scratching, hitting wrong balls etc., but it still allows the opponent to easily drop some completely blocked balls which would take him several shots to pocket without BiH.

Yup, that's pretty much the point... though I don't think ball-in-hand is pool's fatal flaw, or even a flaw at all.

It heavily penalizes fouls, and at the pro level one foul usually leads to loss of game when the other player is able to run out. This keeps players honest and discourages intentional fouls, which bog down the game.

However if your goal is longer, drawn out games where it's less about running out and more about tactical battles, you can just choose to play with your own made up rule about cue ball placement.

Some would argue that's one of pool's fatal flaws... players often just "roll their own" rules based on their skill level and whether or not they're trying to drag out games on a pay-by-the-game coin op table. This leads to fragmented rules all over the world and makes it harder to take the game seriously.

 

[hitman22]

WoW! Quite a Thread.

 

[Paul Schofield]

So basically you think the problem is people not shooting.

I did not say that. I said "One player is disengaged. He might as well be selling hot dogs".

I started this thread just to get people to think and throw their thoughts and any ideas they may have out onto the table. I wanted people to make me think too. I don't just talk about stuff. I do stuff. I try things. 99.9% of it doesn't work. That is OK. I will only post something that is proving successful (as in the No Conflict Rules).

I have a few ideas (brought on by this thread) and I am going to try them and see if they are fun and if they are do-able.

 

[Chicagoplayer]

Simply Brilliant "Hunger Strike"

I believe I posted earlier in this thread so you can look that up. Now you need to be specific about "where pool is." Do you mean the ability of people to go find a place to play pool? Not a problem, bars everywhere. Making a living at it? I already addressed that regarding tv viewers wanting to see something impressive that they cannot do themselves, like run a table of ten ball on a ten footer. The popularity issue and why it is not a more popular pastime? Look up my post on the fat kid. Adding to my comments on the etiquette of gambling, I am hoping that you will all read the following then click on the link, because pool lends itself to a social game called nigysob and many people have a distaste for being "taught a lesson." Here goes: "This can be seen in classic form in poker games. White gets an unbeatable hand, such as four aces. At this point, if he is a NIGYSOB player, he is more interested in the fact that Black is completely at his mercy than he is in good poker or making money." Here is the link if you really want your eyes opened about how people work and why some have a distaste for what the title of this thread calls "pool's fatal flaw."
http://www.ericberne.com/games/games_people_play_NIGYSOB.htm

~enjoy

spot on!
understanding what psychologically motivates the American player,
(and humans in general)
I find that both Europe and Asia have a different
set of values associated with pool.
Honour > $
in the USA
$ > Honour

 

[Chicagoplayer]

Here, here CJ!!!

When You look at what's being done today compared to 20 years ago it's obvious why pool's wilting away. Just like a plant you have to give The Game sunshine, water and encouraging verbal nutrients. The Game's Marketing, Advertising, and P.R. has been neglected on a massive scale professionally and on TV in America. Remember Out of Sight Out of Mind.

________________________________________________________

"Raising the Hustler" is about all of you on a real level-isn't it?

 

[Chicagoplayer]

Don't be disrespectful-

This is pure schmaltz.

_____________________________________________________

This is a professional player who has given his time, skill and life to the game
This year he will be coaching the US Team v's Europe.

The problem right now sir,
is your lack of consideration for the skill and impact CJ Wiley has had in our Pool Community,
remember who and how you address someone who has paid their dues in spades-
decorum.

 

[Paul Schofield]

I think I am spot on. CJW writes about pool with excessive poetry and prose, giving it human qualities. I view pocket billiards as a sport and entertainment option. I don't give the game credit for anything. It's our invention.

Definition:
schmaltz also schmalz (shmälts)
n.
1. Informal
a. Excessively sentimental art or music.
b. Maudlin sentimentality.

 

[Chicagoplayer]

glad you have people talking ^_^

I did not say that. I said "One player is disengaged. He might as well be selling hot dogs".

I started this thread just to get people to think and throw their thoughts and any ideas they may have out onto the table. I wanted people to make me think too. I don't just talk about stuff. I do stuff. I try things. 99.9% of it doesn't work. That is OK. I will only post something that is proving successful (as in the No Conflict Rules).

I have a few ideas (brought on by this thread) and I am going to try them and see if they are fun and if they are do-able.

_________________________________________________________
I have posed the same question:
what is wrong with pool-
it gets many answers in my dcoumentary on us ALL-
the industry, the players, the promoters :grin:
we're
"Raising the Hustler"

 

[Paul Schofield]

I have a lot of experience in developing strategic marketing plans and the first step is to have a clear, defined mission statement, and a well defined plan to reach the specific goals with a team of professionals experienced in these positions.

This is all well and good but is pool even marketable in 2012? You can market all you want and get nowhere if the product does not fit the times. I am saying definitively "No pool game today fits where we are heading in this 21st century." The world and all its activities have become increasingly interactive. Look at smart phones, texting, poker, social media, and video games. Yes, video games. Remember Pac-Man style games: simple single player board games from the 80's. Just look at the interaction on display with the video games of today.

Human interaction is key. The dynamic of our current games in 2012 does not fit the times. I shoot while you sit "sphinx like" until I miss is not a good dynamic. It is solitary, sterile, and destructive (and boring). Pool needs to be interactive to be more fun (and entertaining).

 

[cajunfats]

There is no such thing

Mr. Schofield, I have attempted to read as much of this thread as possible before offering a commentary.

In your OP, you stated that you believe pool has a fatal flaw.

For almost 125 years, the game of Pocket Billiards has been played in varying formats. It will be played for hundreds more just as it is.

Whether or not questions will be raised concerning popularity, profitability, competitveness, and playability, it will continue on.

I like to think of Pocket Billiards as Perpetual Perfection.

We are merely the latest incarnation of participants who cannot grasp the subtle immortality of this game.

Many of the respondents on this thread are knowledgeable about the History of Pool, are accomplished players, and dedicated students of pool.

To ascribe Fatal, is to say that pool will die. There is no proof that such an occurence is remotely close to happening.

To ascribe a Flaw, is to infer an imperfection into a game which has none. The purpose of pool is to strike a white ball and send a stripe/solid or graphically embossed ball into a pocket. All 100% possible to achieve.

Whether you or I have the talent necessary to accomplish this, is irrelevant.

Discussing pool as a competition where only one competes at a time, and the other can sell hot dogs, shows a disrespect for the Talent any individual displays at attempting perfection. No one has ever been perfect at pool. Everybody misses, eventually.

Perhaps in the myriad of responses, I missed something. But, as I read the OP, I felt as though you think pool could be more. There is no way to alter or deviate from the prescribed ritual.

as Paul Newman once said," I'm shooting Fats. When I miss, you can shoot." Therein lies Perfection,...for Eternity.

 

[CJ Wiley]

waiting on the "Game of pool" to get "dynamic and exciting" you will have a long wait

This is all well and good but is pool even marketable in 2012? You can market all you want and get nowhere if the product does not fit the times. I am saying definitively "No pool game today fits where we are heading in this 21st century." The world and all its activities have become increasingly interactive. Look at smart phones, texting, poker, social media, and video games. Yes, video games. Remember Pac-Man style games: simple single player board games from the 80's. Just look at the interaction on display with the video games of today.

Human interaction is key. The dynamic of our current games in 2012 does not fit the times. I shoot while you sit "sphinx like" until I miss is not a good dynamic. It is solitary, sterile, and destructive (and boring). Pool needs to be interactive to be more fun (and entertaining).

We'll just have to "agree to disagree," - "I've never found pool to be boring, people on the other hand..... "

Let's face it "All sports and games are boring unless you have a personal attachment to them!" Baseball might be "America's past time," but if you don't enjoy it or follow any of the players it's as boring as pocket billiards could ever be (and I loved to play when I was a kid).

If you're waiting on the "Game of pool" to get "dynamic and exciting" you will have a long wait. If we can get dynamic and exciting people to enjoy and participate in the Game, things will start to cycle up again. You can blame it on video games, texting and smart phones if that makes you feel comfortable, however, that's just an excuse for mediocrity.

The Game is not the reason for it's success or failure it's the infrastucture of "pool people" haven't had the expertise or ability to maximize the momentum of popularity in the past. This must change or everything will remain the same.

We must bring professional talent into the game to promote it or it will continue to cycle down. I believe everyone tried their best, however, it takes professional marketing/advertising and PR people to make lasting entertainment impact.

Pool has enjoyed several "surges," and the reasons were simple - Paul Newman, Tom Cruise, Jackie Gleason, Minn. Fats, Steve Mizerak, Willie Mosconi, Jeanette Lee, Mary Avina etc. You see, it was never the Game that was either exciting or boring, it was something else......charisma.

 

[Paul Schofield]

To ascribe Fatal, is to say that pool will die. There is no proof that such an occurence is remotely close to happening.

Please note: I am not talking about miniature pool. Miniature pool is alive and well. Nationally, Pocket Billiards as played on a regulation table has all but collapsed.

 

[Paul Schofield]

We'll just have to "agree to disagree," - "I've never found pool to be boring, people on the other hand..... "

I respectfully disagree. It is the human dynamic that is exciting. Pool is boring without it.

 

[TRWpool]

Have you tried One Pocket? Some One Pocket games may take only a few minutes to play. A player might just pocket a ball on the break and run out. It happens. But on the other hand I've seen many a game of One Pocket take a couple hours to play. Try watching Nick Varner play One Pocket in a big tournament. He has a lot of fire power but he also plays very tight. You are subject to see every ball wedged into an upper corner and the two players are playing one and stop. Typically though, you will find a great deal of cat and mouse happening in One Pocket and there is no pool game which requires more inventiveness.

Try playing three cushion billiards. Now there is a game with a great deal of both offense and defense. BTW Billiards will teach you more than you could ever imagine about moving the cue ball around the table, and it will also help build up your stroke.

Tom

 

[CJ Wiley]

I've had the great fortune to see pool when it was more exciting than any other sport

I respectfully disagree. It is the human dynamic that is exciting. Pool is boring without it.

Not just pool, ALL things are boring without the "human dynamic". I've had the great fortune to see pool when it was more exciting than any other sport or game. It will be that way again very soon.

 

[Paul Schofield]

The most notable development in Pocket Billiards in the last 35 years is the concept of a "pool team". The dynamic of the game has changed for those events. This is what I am talking about. The team concept has generated human interaction that was not there previously. There is now a dynamic on each side. There needs to be an additional dynamic between the two sides.

Hats off to Hubbert and Bell.

 

[Maniac]

The most notable development in Pocket Billiards in the last 35 years is the concept of a "pool team". The dynamic of the game has changed for those events. This is what I am talking about. The team concept has generated human interaction that was not there previously. There is now a dynamic on each side. There needs to be an additional dynamic between the two sides.

You are complicating the hell out of a simple solution. All you really need is a table, some balls, a couple of cues, and two people that love the game.

It'll all take care of itself from that point on.

Geeesh!!!!!

Maniac (maybe someone needs to get out of Pennsylvania every once in a while )

 

[lastdimetaker]

I love what you call a flaw, it proves that todays players have mastered the game in ways other athletes have not in their sports. It has created so much pressure to get better that every one is looking to change the game or invent new ones.

 

[Island Drive]

You are complicating the hell out of a simple solution. All you really need is a table, some balls, a couple of cues, and two people that love the game.

It'll all take care of itself from that point on.

Geeesh!!!!!

Maniac (maybe someone needs to get out of Pennsylvania every once in a while )

I disagree, Pauls def. got a clue....