Wow, by some of the posts in here, there must be fistfights going on all over the country in pool halls, every time there is a disagreement on a hit. lol
How would you handle this Foul situation?
- Thread starter rrick33
- Start date
HA!....SO much depends on the size of the players and/or how drunk they are.
I've played in some JOINTS in my life but have NEVER seen a fist fight in one...not inside anyway.
I did see a guy kick another guy's Harley over...at which point I LEFT with all due speed since I figured the next thing I'd see is muzzle flash!!!
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EagleMan
Yeah, I've been playing close to 20 years, and only recall one fight in the pool hall that actually involved fists. lol.
tell him stfu or gtfo. the tournaments i have played in only the players in the match or person running the tournament have a say in the match not the bevy of local gomers watching the match. and if you're calling foul on me it had better be when i foul not a year and a half later.
Does anyone have an idea what rules are being discussed??? BCA or league rules???
Or you can politely tell him it was a good hit and move on........ seriously why get bent out of shape over something stupid?
A very intelligent reply.
Because if he protests -- and he seems to be the protesting type from the OP -- you have to resolve the claim of foul before the next shot is taken. Personally, I think it's a good idea to get the TD involved in situations like this because loud, obnoxious thugs can ruin his event and he will want to know about trouble makers.
I want to thank everyone for their input.
There have been many responses:
Some advocate responding with equal aggression
Some suggest getting a third party to resolve
Some suggest citing the rules and keep shooting
I chose a very diplomatic approach in an effort to difuse his heightend state of mind. I didn't want to accuse his friend of lying for this would have kept him and his friend at peak aggression.......and I'm sure if I said the rules allow me to keep shooting, he would surely think I was cheating him....even if a 3rd party sided with me he would still see me as a cheater.
I stated that anything's possible, but if it did double tap..I was unaware of it. I assured him that I had no intention of cheating him and if I really believed it had double taped the cue I would have given up the table.
I then offered to re-rack and play the game over if he really thought I was in error.
I may not have made this offer if there was serious money involved but $200 is nothing to get crazy over.
At this point, his agression levels had come down and he reluctantly agreed to let me continue shooting.
I suspect on some level, my opponent knew his friend's opinion carried no weight and since my opponent didn't actually see the foul there was some level of doubt. A lot of people were watching the scene and he was under pressure to support his position.
I think he just had a short fuse and needed to vent the issue to see if I was taking advantage of him or not.
In the end, I walked away looking like the good guy without the stigma of "cheater" associated with my name and he looked like the hot head with a short fuse.
There have been many responses:
Some advocate responding with equal aggression
Some suggest getting a third party to resolve
Some suggest citing the rules and keep shooting
I chose a very diplomatic approach in an effort to difuse his heightend state of mind. I didn't want to accuse his friend of lying for this would have kept him and his friend at peak aggression.......and I'm sure if I said the rules allow me to keep shooting, he would surely think I was cheating him....even if a 3rd party sided with me he would still see me as a cheater.
I stated that anything's possible, but if it did double tap..I was unaware of it. I assured him that I had no intention of cheating him and if I really believed it had double taped the cue I would have given up the table.
I then offered to re-rack and play the game over if he really thought I was in error.
I may not have made this offer if there was serious money involved but $200 is nothing to get crazy over.
At this point, his agression levels had come down and he reluctantly agreed to let me continue shooting.
I suspect on some level, my opponent knew his friend's opinion carried no weight and since my opponent didn't actually see the foul there was some level of doubt. A lot of people were watching the scene and he was under pressure to support his position.
I think he just had a short fuse and needed to vent the issue to see if I was taking advantage of him or not.
In the end, I walked away looking like the good guy without the stigma of "cheater" associated with my name and he looked like the hot head with a short fuse.
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Nothing wrong with warning your friend before a match to keep a close eye on a player, nothing wrong even to tell him after a rack "Hey I saw that dude foul and not call it, you better watch him for the rest of the set." But to interupt 2 people matching up and call a foul on either player is beyond rude, and beyond out of line, and in Chicago people don't take that sort of stuff lightly.
Certainly a gentlemanly response but not a correct one. Again, we can only assume there is an area ref or TD but if there is, continuing to shoot while a dispute is in progress would, itself, be a foul.
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EagleMan
Why get in a dispute? Unless a 3rd party is asked to watch the shot the call goes to the shooter. In this case the shooter said he didn't foul and nobody was watching the shot. Move on!
Actually the whole purpose of my post was that you shouldn't let tic tac things get you in a angered state. Telling somebody to shut the **** up isn't going to help the situation. You need to stay calm and collected.
Getting the TD involved would be escalating the situation. It could make matters worse. Plus why should you need to wait until the TD has heard both sides of the story before the game continues?
Seriously its as simple as telling the other player that it wasn't a foul.
Actually, you're right... While I personally might not care, it's definitely considered rude and I normally don't do it right in the middle of the game. Thinking on it, the times I felt obliged to point it out were always at the end of the rack, not before the very next shot.
rrick33 said:
This is absolutely the way to do it. Offer to be accommodating. Why escalate it? You can't treat him like he's pulling a move, he may honestly feel like he's the wronged party. Your best bet is to let him know you're not out to cheat him and you're happy to play by the rules.
TheNewSharkster said:
Seriously?
Between
"Well let's get the TD, we'll get a ruling"
and
"It wasn't a foul." and then you take your next shot...
which do you think is more likely to piss off the other guy?
If you take an attitude like "well ...according to me, there's no foul so I'm gonna keep shooting." then it will NOT go smoothly, the other guy is going to flip out, or get the TD, or just start blatantly making up fouls to call on you, or blatantly fouling himself to "make his point" about non-reffed matches. Waiting for a TD is a small price to pay to prevent all that, even if you know you're in the right.
I'd call that coaching on him
If he didn't ask someone to specifically watch it for a double hit, an unsolicited non-player's opinion from a distance is worthless. If your opponent admitted to not seeing it himself, its too bad what someone else not playing thinks they saw. I'd have stopped playing and made the point of what happened clear to the tournament director immediately, before the opponent decides to change his story to say that he did see it himself.
I am not saying you never need to call the TD over. In this situation it should be done before the shot, not after.
I am guessing that the call goes to the shooter. If that is true it doesn't make any sense to pause the game for a call from a person that didn't see the shot. The shooter said he made a legal hit and a bystander thought it was a foul.
At the end of the day if your opponent is shooting a shot that potentially could result in a double hit you need to get the TD over to watch the shot. Not complain after when a random dude thought it was a foul.
I agree that keeping calm is great. But I am not aware of the rule that says that unless a 3rd party is called to watch a shot, the call goes to the shooter.
If there is an area ref or TD...they can be brought into the matter, can gather all "evidence" they think would help and of course, are not required to have seen the purported foul being committed.
WPA/BCA Regulation 6.
Of course, there are LOCAL rules set by the folks running the tournament/pool hall which can and often do trump any of the "standard rule sets." So, the call going to the shooter may well be the rules that you play under.
EagleMan
I thought most variations of the rules agree that the call goes to the shooter. I might be wrong. I play APA, local tournaments and some occasion action. In all three we play the call goes to the shooter. Any shots that are close we get a unbiased 3rd party to watch before the shot is taken.
Right! But lots of fouls can't be suspected in advance. Shooter plays a HARD cross-side bank. OB JUMPS off the playing surface...hops to the opposite rail...leaves the playing surface again and lands on top of the rail and would have gone OFF the table had it not hit a cube of chalk.
But DID IT hit the chalk?
In the same category are miscues which most often surprise EVERYONE...including the shooter...obviously.
It's really pretty simple. If there is a disagreement between the players, they call in the AR or the TD and very calmly explain the situation and ask for a ruling.
If one of the players doesn't remain calm it will probably be to HIS DISadvantage.
AND the TD can eject any troublemaker from the entire tournament for unsportsmanlike conduct...so I would HOPE the other guy gets his shorts all up in a bunch.
AND...since I live in Idaho, if dude gets too pissy and if he's too big to deal with under normal circumstances, I could UNconceal my legally concealed
.25 semi-auto which would likely restore a sense of politeness in all concerned.*
Of course, I would NOT threaten him with it. That would be both unsportsmanlike conduct and a FELONY. But it is LEGAL to carry an exposed gun and there is no pool rule that says you cannot.
(For that very reason...there is NO "road rage" around here. Everyone is VERY polite).
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EagleMan
*By the way...while Idaho has among the least restrictive gun laws in the country, only 9 states have a lower gun-related homicide rate than we do. And our rate is HALF of the rate in New York state which, including NYC, has among the most restrictive gun laws in America.
I'm just sayin'.