Shane Van Boening: What about him....

I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm simply stating they are very differe

Johnnyt said:
On any given Sunday either player could win a race to 25 in 9 or 10 ball. In fact there are about a dozen top players that could be said about. Johnnyt
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This is true. Johnny Archer has stated in the past he would play Shane on a Bruswick Gold Crown with 4.25 inch pockets and Shane has declined. Shane will play Johnny on a Diamond and Johnny has and will always decline. These two tables make the scenarios very different. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm simply stating they are very different.

To get a dominant player we must have rules that provide that opportunity. Roll Out Rules, call pocket, no jump cues or break cues, slower cloth, 4.25 inch pockets would do this....the way they play today is just a sophisticated crap shoot for Champion players.

Shane is the best in the country ( the world, and maybe even Texas;)) in my opinion as well.....I would just like to see him have the opportunity to prove it beyond any reasonable doubt.

No need to "get angry" about what I stated, my point is there's too many "uncontrollable factors in pool today," and it's directly related to one foul "slop" rules and the cloth/equipment guidelines. I'll take this position and argue it (politely and professionally) with anyone on earth. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
CJ Wiley said:
To get a dominant player we must have rules that provide that opportunity. Roll Out Rules, call pocket, no jump cues or break cues, slower cloth, 4.25 inch pockets would do this....the way they play today is just a sophisticated crap shoot for Champion players.
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There are a couple of things here I would disagree with, but specifically, why no break cues?
 
Johnny beat Shane in the TAR match correct? Bustamante beat Archer I think right after. I do hope we see more of Busty in the future. :smile:
 
TheMarsMan said:
Johnny will be the first to admit that Shane is a better player than him. Johnny won't gamble with Shane on any table other than his home table in Georgia so that should also tell you something. JA is a great player and I believe the 2nd best in the U.S. but SVB has passed him up in most peoples opinion.
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this is true shane maybe better than johnny now,but in johnny prime he would beat shane on any table.
 
There is no way to prove that any given player is the "best" in the world because all of these guys can beat each other at any time. Shane just won Turning Stone and did it with powerful play. Jayson Shaw let Shane escape though by missing a fairly easy combo on the hill. So there you have a fortunate roll that set Shane up in the position to win.

In my opinion the only way to find out who the BEST player is would be to organize a round robin where all the players put up 100,000 of their own money and each player played each other player in private with the scores being tallied up in secret so no chance for dumping and collusion.

Then and only then would ONE player emerge after a long and grueling trial against the best players in the world. Rinse and repeat and you will find out who the best player is at any given time.

Otherwise, there are so many variables that it's impossible to know who the "best" is.
 
finally

I would sure like to take credit for the change

@CJ: your comment and opinion is and for the most part allways will be appreciate. I say once again that this is how I would rather see individuals speak on players, not with the "bieber fan" type of mentality that has been the norm, especially when comes to shane. The greats have all set their record, babe ruth, masconi, fats, earl and archer and they will all stand for obvious reason.

@fastlenny and JB I say kudos to you also.

see, just as the "turn coats" have pointed out that past pros set their records under different circumstances, well so is shane. Any of todays player are capable of beating each other on any given sunday, hell sossi just took down earl, ronnie and mika in the predator open at steinway billiards.

so until we can set a stage where all of these player can come together on a regular basis to play, it is hard to call someone a world pro. It's like the MLB calling someone world champions for winning the World Series when only one country participated or hell the Civil War, is the Union now world champions?
 
markgw said:
He didn't dominate Archer in the last TAR match, I believe Archer won 2 out of 3 of sets. They played pretty long races of 10 ball on that tight diamond...I believe he lost to Bustamante also. Shane is definately the player to beat in every tournament with out a doubt. I can't wait to see how he plays at DCC this year!!!
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Shane also narrowly won the hill-hill match of the Dragon's Promotion in New Iberia at the end of last year as well. You're never stealing against the likes of Johnny Archer. Bustamante is a living legend. Add in other players like Orcullo and Shane has his work cut out for him.

This thread and others like it will have everyone sharpening their game up for the great tournaments awaiting us this year.

For the BIG MONEY event in June, I am hoping that players that don't normally play in U.S. events will see that the money is great and come a lookin' for a game.
 
Watched some video of a match on that table, too tight imo, takes away the creative shot making that to me is the essence of pool.
 
I think some of us believe that table was too tight even for the champs.

I would like to hear what they have to say about the table in private.

I'm sure that if the players themselves feel like the table was too tight, that will be corrected. If they feel it was not too tight, they will become more accustomed to playing on it.

I don't watch the pool gods to see them play on equipment that appears to make them look like mere humans.

Certain shots disappear when you play on super tight pocketed tables. We have one table at Buffalo Billiards which I call THE BEAST and it is just too tight for me. I practice on it once in a blue moon just to sharpen my alignment and slow down my cue ball speed but other than that, it handicaps many shots that make pool such a beautiful art form.
 
JoeyA said:
I think some of us believe that table was too tight even for the champs.

I would like to hear what they have to say about the table in private.

I'm sure that if the players themselves feel like the table was too tight, that will be corrected. If they feel it was not too tight, they will become more accustomed to playing on it.

I don't watch the pool gods to see them play on equipment that appears to make them look like mere humans.

Certain shots disappear when you play on super tight pocketed tables. We have one table at Buffalo Billiards which I call THE BEAST and it is just too tight for me. I practice on it once in a blue moon just to sharpen my alignment and slow down my cue ball speed but other than that, it handicaps many shots that make pool such a beautiful art form.
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Players may not want to openly admit that a table is to tight.It could project an image of weakness.
 
CJ Wiley said:
This is true. Johnny Archer has stated in the past he would play Shane on a Bruswick Gold Crown with 4.25 inch pockets and Shane has declined. Shane will play Johnny on a Diamond and Johnny has and will always decline. These two tables make the scenarios very different. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm simply stating they are very different.
[...]
To get a dominant player we must have rules that provide that opportunity. Roll Out Rules, call pocket, no jump cues or break cues, slower cloth, 4.25 inch pockets would do this
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I can understand the idea that certain rules favor the better player and reduce the role of luck. And I can see the argument about small pockets vs. larger ones. Pool's not all about shotmaking, but the easier a table plays, the longer the packages. So you'd have to play a longer race to compensate.

But I never got why some people talk lovingly of slow cloth? All it means is you have to hit harder on certain shots. Since when is pool is about muscle? Doesn't faster cloth arguably mean you need more careful cue ball control? A 10% speed control error might carry you a foot past your intended spot, on fast cloth. But only 5 inches past on slow cloth. So arguably slow cloth is more forgiving. If you get a little too much angle, you can hold balls instead of going back-and-forth or up and down the table (which is almost always harder and more unpredictable).

As for jump cues, I don't expect to change any minds, but to me... a game with both kicking and jumping in it is more interesting and challenging than one with just kicking. For the the guy playing safe and the guy in the chair.

If I had to pick just one that we had to use in all pool games, I'd go with kicking, it's more skillful and has lots of wonderful little nuances and systems. But the beauty of pool is we don't have to pick just one. We can have both.
 
BelleBelle said:
Shane said after the match in the interview that the table was to tight for him and Darren
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Oh really, BelleBelle?

My pool room had the audio turned off so I couldn't hear the interview. Thanks for the heads-up!
 
JoeyA said:
I think some of us believe that table was too tight even for the champs.

I would like to hear what they have to say about the table in private.

I'm sure that if the players themselves feel like the table was too tight, that will be corrected. If they feel it was not too tight, they will become more accustomed to playing on it.

I don't watch the pool gods to see them play on equipment that appears to make them look like mere humans.

Certain shots disappear when you play on super tight pocketed tables. We have one table at Buffalo Billiards which I call THE BEAST and it is just too tight for me. I practice on it once in a blue moon just to sharpen my alignment and slow down my cue ball speed but other than that, it handicaps many shots that make pool such a beautiful art form.
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I have had two players say the table was too tight. Both right after they lost on it. Before they played and lost they said it was perfect. Everyone else who has played on it both before and after winning or losing said it is what they want to play on. Many have used the word "perfect" describing it.

TAR makes decisions on things based on what the players and fans want. Players say they wanted tight tables so we had Diamond custom make a tight table. Personally I would rather put the 4.5" pockets back on but there is something to be said for the reputation this table has built as being double tough. TAR has always been about showcasing the best. Not anyone can just show up and play. I think having a tougher table re-enforces that fact a little and I like that.

One thing is certain. If we do put the 4.5" back on the Shane haters will squeal. I honestly believe the only thing that has slowed him down enough to get beat in a few of the matches is tight pockets getting in his head. I know it has happened. I talked to him after beating Daz and he told me the pockets were messing with him. I asked him if he though we needed to go back to 4.5" and he said "No. The table is perfect. I have to work harder."
 
Not slow cloth, just not as freakin fast:)

CreeDo said:
I can understand the idea that certain rules favor the better player and reduce the role of luck. And I can see the argument about small pockets vs. larger ones. Pool's not all about shotmaking, but the easier a table plays, the longer the packages. So you'd have to play a longer race to compensate.

But I never got why some people talk lovingly of slow cloth? All it means is you have to hit harder on certain shots. Since when is pool is about muscle? Doesn't faster cloth arguably mean you need more careful cue ball control? A 10% speed control error might carry you a foot past your intended spot, on fast cloth. But only 5 inches past on slow cloth. So arguably slow cloth is more forgiving. If you get a little too much angle, you can hold balls instead of going back-and-forth or up and down the table (which is almost always harder and more unpredictable).

As for jump cues, I don't expect to change any minds, but to me... a game with both kicking and jumping in it is more interesting and challenging than one with just kicking. For the the guy playing safe and the guy in the chair.

If I had to pick just one that we had to use in all pool games, I'd go with kicking, it's more skillful and has lots of wonderful little nuances and systems. But the beauty of pool is we don't have to pick just one. We can have both.
Click to expand...


Not slow cloth, just not as freakin fast:). The 860 of today is as fast as the 760 of the early 90s. I've heard there's a different amount of "certain" materials in it, and I have no way of knowing.

One thing I DO KNOW is it's faster (than when we endorsed it in the early 90s) and takes less stroke to move the ball around. Do you need "more precise cue ball control?"....not at all, as a matter of fact if you get straight in on the end rail you can easily get back down table.

That's the whole complaint, you DO NOT need as good cue ball control. There's no punishment for getting "out of line." 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
JCIN said:
I have had two players say the table was too tight. Both right after they lost on it. Before they played and lost they said it was perfect. Everyone else who has played on it both before and after winning or losing said it is what they want to play on. Many have used the word "perfect" describing it.

TAR makes decisions on things based on what the players and fans want. Players say they wanted tight tables so we had Diamond custom make a tight table. Personally I would rather put the 4.5" pockets back on but there is something to be said for the reputation this table has built as being double tough. TAR has always been about showcasing the best. Not anyone can just show up and play. I think having a tougher table re-enforces that fact a little and I like that.

One thing is certain. If we do put the 4.5" back on the Shane haters will squeal. I honestly believe the only thing that has slowed him down enough to get beat in a few of the matches is tight pockets getting in his head. I know it has happened. I talked to him after beating Daz and he told me the pockets were messing with him. I asked him if he though we needed to go back to 4.5" and he said "No. The table is perfect. I have to work harder."
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Yes that table is perfect. A Diamond at 4.25 should be the standard. 4.5" is no good and terrible for games such as one pocket. The TAR table now you can still hit a ball into the rail and it falls, as we saw SVB do way more then DAZ.
Reason being DAZ does not have the soft stroke and spin the balls like SVB. DAZ is a dead center ball striker and hits them firmer, this type of table spits those kind of balls out all day unless hit dead perfect.
 
Write a book, Shane!

JCIN said:
I have had two players say the table was too tight. Both right after they lost on it. Before they played and lost they said it was perfect. Everyone else who has played on it both before and after winning or losing said it is what they want to play on. Many have used the word "perfect" describing it.

TAR makes decisions on things based on what the players and fans want. Players say they wanted tight tables so we had Diamond custom make a tight table. Personally I would rather put the 4.5" pockets back on but there is something to be said for the reputation this table has built as being double tough. TAR has always been about showcasing the best. Not anyone can just show up and play. I think having a tougher table re-enforces that fact a little and I like that.

One thing is certain. If we do put the 4.5" back on the Shane haters will squeal. I honestly believe the only thing that has slowed him down enough to get beat in a few of the matches is tight pockets getting in his head. I know it has happened. I talked to him after beating Daz and he told me the pockets were messing with him. I asked him if he though we needed to go back to 4.5" and he said "No. The table is perfect. I have to work harder."
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Shane should write a book on work ethics and attitude. :cool:
 
I also want people to remember Shane ran a seven pack unfinished on the same table against Alex to close out the day.

Personally it doesnt matter to me what they play on. It is a bit annoying when you give people what they ask for repeatedly and then they decide they dont want it anymore.....and you know damn well as soon as you go back to the old set up the first thing people will say is "This is way too easy for these guys".

To fix it I think I will do what politicians do. Just have a poll and whichever side wins gets what they want. Then when anyone complains we just tell them "They did it."

Its the American way.
 
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