Handicapping has ruined the SPORT!

Woof Biscuit said:
Unless you want the same 5 guys playing in the tournament every month, you have to give weaker players a chance. I hate giving up the spot too but I realize that if I didn't there probably wouldn't be a tournament.
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I agree, in an even tournament, people stop showing up if a few players keep winning every time.

There are plenty of Pro/Open events that are even races for everyone to pick from if someone does not like handicaps.

He's not the only one that liked things like the good ol' days though.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkqivn_saturday-night-live-grumpy-old-man_fun#.URV1uWd-lOw

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xk...ana-carvey-as-grumpy-old-man_fun#.URV14Gd-lOw
 
My humble opinion!

David Marcus said:
It's not a problem,just an observation....in some ways I think handicapping stunts ones development and slows the learning curve. I think you are missing my point...
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I honestly think the young players of today are not really trying to learn, they are trying to win. Period. In the 80s and 90s you had the Monday night 5 dollar tournament. If you remember, there were about 3 or 4 that had a shot of winning that non-handicapped tournament. And you also noticed those same 3 or 4 guys snapped it off each and every week until finally the lesser player stopped showing up. Soon you go from a full 16 and a waiting list every week to 12 to 10 to none! The top players hijacked the local tournament each and every week until they killed the tournament. That was probably true for just about every town. Then they started handicapping and those top guys still won most of the time, but now you have a few others that getting in the money and even winning every once in a while. Players of today, especially the league and recreational players dont want to keep pouring money into tournaments they have no shot of winning and very little shot of cashing because of the same guys winning it every time. I think the reason the handicap stops are doing so well and gaining more and more traction is because its giving that recreational player a better shot and make no mistake, you have to have that recreational entry money in order for any non pro stop to have continued success. Great example is the New Omega tour here in the Dallas/ Ft. Worth area. It was almost completely full before the tournament stop that was going on was finished. There is over 20 people on the waiting list and the one for April is 3/4 full and its 6 weeks away. Its a simple handicap where the pros or higher level players have to play to win and they still win. Handicapping has truly helped pool tournaments in my opinion. The days of getting your brains beat out playing even by those who make a living at this great game is long over.

Frank C
 
The way you wished it worked:

"Man, those guys kick my ass, I got no shot here.
But I'm going to keep plugging away until I get better... and someday,
I will take them all down. Until then, I don't care if I'm donating,
I'm going to enter, and if I watch how these pros play.
If I pay attention I'm going to figure it out and be as good as them."


The reality:

"Oh, two pros and that local shortstop are playing in this?
I'm throwing away my money. I'll sit this one out and watch from the stands.
Maybe I'll learn something.

Oh, only 7 people entered and one of the pros got the bye?
And he won again just like the past two months,
because he only basically has to beat one other guy?

How much did he win? That's all??? Why does the prize fund keep shrinking??

They cancelled next month's? Wow that sucks. Let's go bowling."
 
I would suspect that currently the amount of players who play pool on a regular basis is much higher than it was back in the "glory days" of pool simply because of tournaments and leagues that offer handicaps. While it might be fun for you to get your a$$ handed to you and turn you into a stronger player for most new players it is not.

Entering a tournament with no chance of winning isn't drawing any new players. If you feel that equal footing is needed in a tournament then I suggest you play only in those tournaments without rankings. I would imagine that unless you are quite a good player you will enjoy getting a lesson on most days.
 
I think your wrong

Listen nothing is perfect!!! But the last two Handicap tournaments I have been in were great!.
98 Players in the Predator Tournament. & 74 Players in the Tri-State.
I do play in the Mezz Tournament (EVERYBODY PLAYS ENEN) once in a great while
when I don't mind throwing some money away for the experience.
But I think the only thing that ruins tournaments is sandbagging. Just my opinion :-)
 
so true!

Nostroke said:
Kid Delicious played in C tournaments, then as a B, then an A, then open and then pro and he did it all in about 4-5 yrs. Didnt slow his development at all.
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This is so true! We met him in Marboro & we went all over in different tournaments.
all handicap tournaments! West End in Elizabeth, Castle in East Rutherford, Lodi, Clifton Billiards we had a blast!
 
Mr. Magoo said:
hmmm . . . . yeah . . . . I forgot about that . . . . .

Thanks for reminding me . . . .

I have a bad feeling that in order to qualify for 'masters' you have to be on a regular team . . . . .

But I'll keep my ears open . . . .
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Some league areas yes, some league areas no.

Check with your local LO.

Maniac
 
fcee06 said:
I honestly think the young players of today are not really trying to learn, they are trying to win. Period. In the 80s and 90s you had the Monday night 5 dollar tournament. If you remember, there were about 3 or 4 that had a shot of winning that non-handicapped tournament. And you also noticed those same 3 or 4 guys snapped it off each and every week until finally the lesser player stopped showing up. Soon you go from a full 16 and a waiting list every week to 12 to 10 to none! The top players hijacked the local tournament each and every week until they killed the tournament. That was probably true for just about every town. Then they started handicapping and those top guys still won most of the time, but now you have a few others that getting in the money and even winning every once in a while. Players of today, especially the league and recreational players dont want to keep pouring money into tournaments they have no shot of winning and very little shot of cashing because of the same guys winning it every time. I think the reason the handicap stops are doing so well and gaining more and more traction is because its giving that recreational player a better shot and make no mistake, you have to have that recreational entry money in order for any non pro stop to have continued success. Great example is the New Omega tour here in the Dallas/ Ft. Worth area. It was almost completely full before the tournament stop that was going on was finished. There is over 20 people on the waiting list and the one for April is 3/4 full and its 6 weeks away. Its a simple handicap where the pros or higher level players have to play to win and they still win. Handicapping has truly helped pool tournaments in my opinion. The days of getting your brains beat out playing even by those who make a living at this great game is long over.

Frank C
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I hear what you're saying, Frank. I have a simple solution that will not only increase the number of participants, but by bringing in more players will make the winner of the tournament recieve a bigger payout.

EDIT: This would be for local tournaments, not Regional Tours or higher.

In a handicapped tournament, have an upper bracket and lower bracket for both winners side and losers side. In the upper brackets, put the higher rated players in it and put the lower rated players in the bottom brackets. Pay to at least 4th place. This is going to INSURE that a lower rated player (or two) will finish in the money every week. This will keep the lower rated players coming back every week and more than likely, a better rated player will take home the 1st place winnings more often than not.

You've got to throw out a bone to keep the "dawgs" coming around.

The Omega Tour is a great shot-in-the-arm for the D/FW metroplex.


Maniac (lays around like a Bloodhound most of the day)
 
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leehayes said:
Ok Dub...I'm calling you out...next time I'm in Brewer I get the 9.

$100 a set.
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Uh.....yeah. like that will EVER happen :eek: :rotflmao1:

I might play even for a beer, cuz I wanna buy you a beer. And I'm quite sure that would be the outcome. :p

I expect you know that I'm no gambler (and with my game, that's no surprise) but having read so often here about gambling and negotiating a spot, which always amazes me when the handicap debate comes up.

Hope we get the chance sometime soon. There is some talk of actually getting the tables redone, finally, heh heh.
 
justadub said:
Uh.....yeah. like that will EVER happen :eek: :rotflmao1:

I might play even for a beer, cuz I wanna buy you a beer. And I'm quite sure that would be the outcome. :p

I expect you know that I'm no gambler (and with my game, that's no surprise) but having read so often here about gambling and negotiating a spot, which always amazes me when the handicap debate comes up.

Hope we get the chance sometime soon. There is some talk of actually getting the tables redone, finally, heh heh.
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Thanks Bruce. It was my attempt at humor.
 
First, it is not a sport. It is a game.

Secondly, what has ruined pool more then anything is probably the internet and xbox, etc.

Young kids use to go to the bowling alleys and play pool. They also went to arcades where they could play pool a lot, along with those same video games. Well arcades are a thing of the past and most bowling alleys don't have pool tables anymore.

They also stay in the house and don't want to leave, all the while playing xbox or internet video games.

If you are a young kid these days it is hard to find the pool room unless you have a mother/father or brother/sister that play and want to even expose you to the lifestyle. Which a lot do not want their young ones exposed to it.

This is just what I see. And I've been around it a long time.
 
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David Marcus said:
Nobody out there remembers THOSE DAYS!
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Yup and you knew you were gonna come up against "That Guy" eventually. I think it made you a better player knowing what was waiting down the line. I would rather get beat fair and square. Winning a handicapped tournament is like getting the participated ribbon at the science fair. Just sayin.
 
Finally !!

Chicken_Blood said:
Yup and you knew you were gonna come up against "That Guy" eventually. I think it made you a better player knowing what was waiting down the line. I would rather get beat fair and square. Winning a handicapped tournament is like getting the participated ribbon at the science fair. Just sayin.
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Finally...somebody gets the whole POINT of the OP! Thank You..:thumbup:
 
Sport..NOT game!

KantmakAball said:
First, it is not a sport. It is a game.

Secondly, what has ruined pool more then anything is probably the internet and xbox, etc.

Young kids use to go to the bowling alleys and play pool. They also went to arcades where they could play pool a lot, along with those same video games. Well arcades are a thing of the past and most bowling alleys don't have pool tables anymore.

They also stay in the house and don't want to leave, all the while playing xbox or internet video games.

If you are a young kid these days it is hard to find the pool room unless you have a mother/father or brother/sister that play and want to even expose you to the lifestyle. Which a lot do not want their young ones exposed to it.

This is just what I see. And I've been around it a long time.
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I stand by my original statement..It is a SPORT !
 
I did start out as a 7 year old in a pool room

KantmakAball said:
First, it is not a sport. It is a game.

Secondly, what has ruined pool more then anything is probably the internet and xbox, etc.

Young kids use to go to the bowling alleys and play pool. They also went to arcades where they could play pool a lot, along with those same video games. Well arcades are a thing of the past and most bowling alleys don't have pool tables anymore.

They also stay in the house and don't want to leave, all the while playing xbox or internet video games.

If you are a young kid these days it is hard to find the pool room unless you have a mother/father or brother/sister that play and want to even expose you to the lifestyle. Which a lot do not want their young ones exposed to it.

This is just what I see. And I've been around it a long time.
Click to expand...


I have to agree and I know this can be controversial. The fact is I did start out as a 7 year old in a pool room and was a child prodigy. However, the times were certainly different and I was in a town on 629 people. Even with those things considered there were still a lot of "bad influences" lurking around and tough to ignore for a young kid.

Some games and environments might better suit someone over 18. One thing I also know from being a kid once is when we were told something was "only for adults" we wanted it even more. So, if pool was considered an "adult game" it may RAISE kids interest, not make it decline. I'm pretty sure of that, they'd be sneaking in pool room if they "weren't allowed".


I would agree to teach or coach a younger person, however, I'd first have that "I don't think it's such a good idea" talk with the parent.....then, if I felt it was the right thing to do I would teach that person complimentary.

'The Game is the Teacher'

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