And when exactly was this era? From what I read handicapping has been a part of pool since the 1800s and presumably of tournaments as well.
Handicapping has ruined the SPORT!
- Thread starter David Marcus
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And when exactly was this era? From what I read handicapping has been a part of pool since the 1800s and presumably of tournaments as well.
LOL!
But that's why we didn't play tournaments to make money back then.
If you think you can eat a trophy, hey, fine and dandy. But if you want to make money you sure as hell don't show your game in front of a bunch of people in a tournament! LOL!
Yeah...the same guys that won the tournament paid other guys later or the next day...guys that were certainly not in the tournament.
I don't really know how things are out there now, but it sure sounds like things have changed.
I didn't play tournaments or leagues, I kept my head low. But I can promise you that I played a lot of those guys that won those tournaments. LOL! I know I played some old timers that show up here in this forum, I know who they are, but they wouldn't know me from Adam. I was just some unknown player that "got lucky" one night then moved on.
The closest I came to that tournament sort of thing was when a girl on my university team won a tournament. They were taking pics of her for the newspaper (Pittsburgh Press?). She was holding a house cue. I handed her my JOSS and that's the pic that made it into the newspaper! LOL! Yeah...just my cue...not me. :thumbup:
I have a clipping of that newspaper pic somewhere. If I ever dig it out I'll scan it and post it.
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Yes, it has been part of the game a long time.
But not everything was handicapped all the time.....
I don't really know pool today but it sounds to me like handicapping is a lot more prevalent and integrated than it was in the 80's.
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Not if you're the guy giving up the handicaps. Then winning feels pretty good.
I do hate it when I come up against someone that is underrated. But then again I also try to adopt the attitude that even if we played even it could end up with him ahead of me so I still have to fight to win.
I have often asked to be moved to the highest handicap just so I could chase that high of winning it without getting weight from anyone.
LOL!
But that's why we didn't play tournaments to make money back then.
If you think you can eat a trophy, hey, fine and dandy. But if you want to make money you sure as hell don't show your game in front of a bunch of people in a tournament! LOL!
Yeah...the same guys that won the tournament paid other guys later or the next day...guys that were certainly not in the tournament.
I don't really know how things are out there now, but it sure sounds like things have changed.
I didn't play tournaments or leagues, I kept my head low. But I can promise you that I played a lot of those guys that won those tournaments. LOL! I know I played some old timers that show up here in this forum, I know who they are, but they wouldn't know me from Adam. I was just some unknown player that "got lucky" one night then moved on.
The closest I came to that tournament sort of thing was when a girl on my university team won a tournament. They were taking pics of her for the newspaper (Pittsburgh Press?). She was holding a house cue. I handed her my JOSS and that's the pic that made it into the newspaper! LOL! Yeah...just my cue...not me. :thumbup:
I have a clipping of that newspaper pic somewhere. If I ever dig it out I'll scan it and post it.
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I remember a young kid won the state tournament here one year. Back in the '90s. He came back to the local pool room with his $1500 in cash and was bragging about his win. The owner of the pool room, spotted him the 7 and beat him out of all his money.
The best don't always show up! :grin:
That's why I like playing BCA tournaments in Vegas. May the best man win.
We have a local league that has an AllStar tournament at the end of each session. The league is a game handicap format. But skill level is used to add up to a total of playable points.
But, during the AllStar tournament, the 3 & 4's are grouped together, 5 & 6's grouped together and the 7 & 8's are grouped together. You play against your own till you win your bracket, then compete against the other levels of players. Gets about 250 players each time. 2 day tournament. If you win Saturday, it is a redraw on Sunday and you start again in your assigned bracket.
I don't get it. If you play someone "even" and lose, you don't care.
Theoretically (i know its not always perfect) a handicap is supposed to even the playing field between two players. If say for example, you were playing an open level player and you missed shot, they would likely run out. You play a non open level player and have to spot them x amount of balls. You miss the SAME shot you would miss against the open level player and the handicapped player runs 2-3 balls and his spot ball to win the game.
Absolutely nothing changed on YOUR part. You missed the same shot and got the same result.....you lost.
Conversely when you run out, it doesn't matter what spot you're giving up.
So, in a properly handicapped game, there is absolutely NO difference losing to or beating the opponent then losing to or beating an opponent even.
If you're taking the point of view that lesser skilled players don't get better by being handicapped......that's just plainly a false statement. Regardless of being handicapped a player is either going to want and try to get better or they won't. Players that actually want to get better don't just say "I'm ok with this, I want to get better, but I'll just stay at this level."
Your point is pretty much moot and has no real logical base.
Theoretically (i know its not always perfect) a handicap is supposed to even the playing field between two players. If say for example, you were playing an open level player and you missed shot, they would likely run out. You play a non open level player and have to spot them x amount of balls. You miss the SAME shot you would miss against the open level player and the handicapped player runs 2-3 balls and his spot ball to win the game.
Absolutely nothing changed on YOUR part. You missed the same shot and got the same result.....you lost.
Conversely when you run out, it doesn't matter what spot you're giving up.
So, in a properly handicapped game, there is absolutely NO difference losing to or beating the opponent then losing to or beating an opponent even.
If you're taking the point of view that lesser skilled players don't get better by being handicapped......that's just plainly a false statement. Regardless of being handicapped a player is either going to want and try to get better or they won't. Players that actually want to get better don't just say "I'm ok with this, I want to get better, but I'll just stay at this level."
Your point is pretty much moot and has no real logical base.
Handicapping allows a player to gauge his progress. The next higher handicap is an achievable goal, something to shoot for. It motivates most players (novice players) to improve their game. There will always be those who will try to manipulate the system (sandbag/cheat) but these are the same folks who won't admit to a bad hit or call their own fouls.
Same here in Delaware. I only play on a masters team. What you can't do is participate in any of the individual competitions unless you're on a handicapped team and have an established handicap of your own.
Ah, someone that gets it.
Amateur pool is healthy and handicapping is the main reason. Players of all skill levels want a chance to win. Without handicapping, the leagues would gradually die and we'd be left with few who play pool at all.
Handicapping is one of the pillars on which amateur golf is built, allowing players of unequal ability to compete on even terms. In this respect, golf and pool are the same.
Handicapping in amateur pool is something I greatly favor.
Top amateur golfers make little, if any, money from it, and top amateur pool players should expect the same.
my only question is: why do leagues without handycap substain in europe? we have very rarely a handycapped tournament, but i never saw a league here like this?!
Europe is simply different.
Pool is recognized there. They have actual Federations, and regulatory bodies that oversee things. They have real Pro tours. They have real National programs.
The pool world is different there.
Herein lies the 'rub' with the OP statement!
My thoughts are that he probably runs into more of those individuals that are not striving to obtain the next higher goal in the handicap platform and are considered under-handicapped.
C'mon Chop, there was NO payout for the US Open, for a World Championship, or from sponsors back in the day? Seems like Earl, Buddy, Nick, Miz and many other did OK for themselves..... Im sure they did not get rich, but they weren't eating trophies
I'll take a Gold medal in track, rather than win $2K in a foot race in my backyard, any day of the week and twice on Sunday.....
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cueporn
Banned
spotting
Giving the 6 out, wild on the break isnt pool. It does nothing to motivatee the weaker player and in the end it weakens the game.
I think the OP doesnt care if everyone plays, just if they play right, putting in their time and effort before they see the rewards.
Locally I see 9 out of 10 players games remain unchanged gor over a decade or more. Imagine this game takes practice and dedication to improve to the higher levels.....amazing. So why does puttibg in the time and effort lead to punishnent in the form of bigger spots? Brother, I wish I had the answer. I tried to hold a open style event and drew 3, the same 3 that always matchup even.
Giving the 6 out, wild on the break isnt pool. It does nothing to motivatee the weaker player and in the end it weakens the game.
I think the OP doesnt care if everyone plays, just if they play right, putting in their time and effort before they see the rewards.
Locally I see 9 out of 10 players games remain unchanged gor over a decade or more. Imagine this game takes practice and dedication to improve to the higher levels.....amazing. So why does puttibg in the time and effort lead to punishnent in the form of bigger spots? Brother, I wish I had the answer. I tried to hold a open style event and drew 3, the same 3 that always matchup even.
I get what you mean completely. It's why I quit playing ion the APA.
Spots
Most handicap leagues and tournaments are still in the better players favor. I think it keeps you under pressure in the same way it would if you were playing a better player(so you can't dog it and still win) and it keeps the worse player interested in the game. In our local straight league my handicap has went up by 30 something balls in the last few yrs but i may not have stuck with it had i got drilled with no spot for the first couple yrs. I usually didnt win but kept it close. This yr I'm now giving up spots almost every week and i like that to. Lost last wk by 41 balls in a match i had to give 30 to 125 no spot i should win but i dogged it because I started bad and put to much pressure on myself going down 50 balls and thats why I'm not a great player. My point of view is it can't hurt to keep it competitive. IF YOU CANT WIN YOU WONT PLAY YOUR BEST AND IF YOU CANT LOSE YOU WONT PLAY YOUR BEST.
Most handicap leagues and tournaments are still in the better players favor. I think it keeps you under pressure in the same way it would if you were playing a better player(so you can't dog it and still win) and it keeps the worse player interested in the game. In our local straight league my handicap has went up by 30 something balls in the last few yrs but i may not have stuck with it had i got drilled with no spot for the first couple yrs. I usually didnt win but kept it close. This yr I'm now giving up spots almost every week and i like that to. Lost last wk by 41 balls in a match i had to give 30 to 125 no spot i should win but i dogged it because I started bad and put to much pressure on myself going down 50 balls and thats why I'm not a great player. My point of view is it can't hurt to keep it competitive. IF YOU CANT WIN YOU WONT PLAY YOUR BEST AND IF YOU CANT LOSE YOU WONT PLAY YOUR BEST.
Did this Thread go the way you were expecting it, lol
What has really changed is the OP mood. He went from ARRRRR to "wellllll here is what i was trying to say"
But judging by his tone in the beginning, he is saying that the APA has done tremendous damage to pool and should switch to this no handicap format. But also as far as getting "lumps and paying dues" you don't have to be in a tournament to do so, anyone can match up (that same C player with an A or B player) for the same $5+ a set (so that no one get hurts) and get his experience then also.
differnet situations call for different thing, it is necessary in some cases and not in others, but this can also be said about other things.
What has really changed is the OP mood. He went from ARRRRR to "wellllll here is what i was trying to say"
But judging by his tone in the beginning, he is saying that the APA has done tremendous damage to pool and should switch to this no handicap format. But also as far as getting "lumps and paying dues" you don't have to be in a tournament to do so, anyone can match up (that same C player with an A or B player) for the same $5+ a set (so that no one get hurts) and get his experience then also.
differnet situations call for different thing, it is necessary in some cases and not in others, but this can also be said about other things.
Competitive, requires skill, has opponents. Sport.
Which is also a game, just like baseball, football, ping-pong, tennis. You're just not running around and don't need to wear special pants.
Even scrabble, if you are doing it on a high level with the top players in the world is a "sport". If you're playing it with your kids and the best word you have is "DOG", then you're playing is as a game.